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Old 01-12-2021, 06:14 PM   #23101
s2mikey s2mikey is online now
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Originally Posted by tcripe View Post
Have you not seen ROTS? It literally goes after TLJ and Rian every chance it gets. JJ will never admit it, but just watching the film you can feel the disrespect.
I get the impression too. Its sort of obvious in places and more subtle but still present in others. The point is that TLJ & TROS arent like peanut Butter and Chocolate. They dont go together. More like toothpaste and orange juice.
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Old 01-12-2021, 06:27 PM   #23102
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No need for fan complaints, Abrams even gave daddy issues to frigging captain Kirk, its the only motivation he can think of for his hero characters.
Star Wars has always been about family, you know.
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Old 01-12-2021, 06:29 PM   #23103
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Originally Posted by tcripe View Post
Have you not seen ROTS? It literally goes after TLJ and Rian every chance it gets. JJ will never admit it, but just watching the film you can feel the disrespect.
If you're referring to when Luke caught the lightsaber in TROS, then you obviously forgot that he went through an entire arc ever since he threw it behind his shoulder.
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Old 01-12-2021, 06:36 PM   #23104
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Originally Posted by Hardback247 View Post
If you're referring to when Luke caught the lightsaber in TROS, then you obviously forgot that he went through an entire arc ever since he threw it behind his shoulder.
Kylo's helmet, rey being a palps, the holdo maneuver, snoke, finn and rose romance, rose in general and of course all the luke stuff. I'm sure that I'm missing more but those were the changes/retcons that just came to my head.
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Old 01-12-2021, 10:25 PM   #23105
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Originally Posted by Hardback247 View Post
I don't think it can be absolutely proven that JJ Abrams decided to make Rey a Palpatine because of fan complaints that she was apparently a nobody in TLJ.
Daisy Ridley confirmed in an interview not long ago that Rey's backstory kept changing between the films.
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Old 01-12-2021, 10:47 PM   #23106
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Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity View Post
Daisy Ridley confirmed in an interview not long ago that Rey's backstory kept changing between the films.
Not even between films either, As they were filming too. J.J. just couldn't make up his mind.
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Old 01-13-2021, 03:46 AM   #23107
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If you're referring to when Luke caught the lightsaber in TROS, then you obviously forgot that he went through an entire arc ever since he threw it behind his shoulder.
That was JJ clubbing the viewer over the head with his dislike of E8. Luke may as well have looked straight at the camera and winked at the audience.
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Old 01-13-2021, 04:38 AM   #23108
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Originally Posted by Fenway55 View Post
That was JJ clubbing the viewer over the head with his dislike of E8. Luke may as well have looked straight at the camera and winked at the audience.
Enough with the confirmation bias, please.
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Old 01-13-2021, 04:46 AM   #23109
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Originally Posted by Fenway55 View Post
That was JJ clubbing the viewer over the head with his dislike of E8. Luke may as well have looked straight at the camera and winked at the audience.
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Originally Posted by Hardback247 View Post
Enough with the confirmation bias, please.
I'm a HUGE fan of LAST JEDI; it's my third favorite after the '77 original and EMPIRE... but I gotta agree that the "lightsaber catch" in TROS seemed to be a jab at Rian and LAST JEDI. Now I don't think it's proof that Abrams "disliked" LAST JEDI... but it certainly answers for that saber toss that Rian did at the beginning of his movie.

I'm sure -- as always -- the truth lies somewhere in between all the extreme conclusions we draw in here; it may have become an in-joke between JJ and Rian for all we know; more playful than spiteful, perhaps. But any way you slice it, that little smirky moment from Luke in TROS took me right out of the movie; I'm bummed they did that.

Last edited by steel_breeze; 01-13-2021 at 05:03 AM.
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Old 01-13-2021, 05:38 AM   #23110
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I'm a HUGE fan of LAST JEDI; it's my third favorite after the '77 original and EMPIRE... but I gotta agree that the "lightsaber catch" in TROS seemed to be a jab at Rian and LAST JEDI.
It's actually more like a payoff.
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Old 01-13-2021, 05:42 AM   #23111
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It's actually more like a payoff.
I don't see it that way. But I'm genuinely happy it works for you. I wish it didn't seem spiteful to me... but it takes me out of the movie every time. <shrug>
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Old 01-13-2021, 07:30 AM   #23112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post
I'm a HUGE fan of LAST JEDI; it's my third favorite after the '77 original and EMPIRE... but I gotta agree that the "lightsaber catch" in TROS seemed to be a jab at Rian and LAST JEDI. Now I don't think it's proof that Abrams "disliked" LAST JEDI... but it certainly answers for that saber toss that Rian did at the beginning of his movie.

I'm sure -- as always -- the truth lies somewhere in between all the extreme conclusions we draw in here; it may have become an in-joke between JJ and Rian for all we know; more playful than spiteful, perhaps. But any way you slice it, that little smirky moment from Luke in TROS took me right out of the movie; I'm bummed they did that.
It's the stupidest f---ing notion that's came out of fans mouths in the past five years. But some of them are continually trying to find stuff in the Mandalorian that's a dig at things they don't like and like to imagine that people making the show don't either. When you're dealing with people of that kind of schoolyard mentality, it's not surprising these things come up.

And it's lazy cherry picking at its most obvious. Here is what actually happened:



Luke tossed the saber away. (Oh.... My..... God)

We learn that Luke is dismayed with himself, his family legacy (that's why JJ had him sitting out and not helping in TFA. Makes sense he'd throw the saber in that case. Even if you're not thrilled with that development)

Rey picked the saber back up and tries to change his mind. She doesn't manage it.

Yoda appears after Rey leaves and Luke relents after his old master teaches him one final lesson. Luke admits to his failure and lack of wisdom in secluding himself.

Luke then appears on Crait with that lightsaber, instead of his own (but,.....but..... RJ disrespects that lightsaber and therefore so should you. Right?)

Luke saves the resistance armed only with that lightsaber and without even having to use it.
("I will not fight!")

Leia then shows reverence towards the saber and tells Rey it's all they need. (Carrie must have ad libbed that dialogue though and paid Lucasfilm to keep it in against RJ's wishes. Because RJ hates that saber and wants everyone to agree with him, including the following movie right?)




So what happens in TROS?

First of all. The saber is repaired (between movies) and used in the film. (Some fans of the "it's a dig at TLJ " conspiracy theory don't even acknowledge that the hilt has clearly been repaired. Ignoring that and falsely claiming that it just appears brand new again helps maintain their BS narrative that it is dig at TLJ).

Then Rey learns a terrible truth and runs away feeling the same way Luke had felt before. So she goes to his island and tries to get rid of the saber.

Luke stops her and retrieves the saber, then explains the peace and wisdom that he received regarding his past failure his destiny and that saber which we actually already saw in the previous f---ing movie.

Essentially TROS has Luke spell out for Rey's benefit what the audience witnessed in The Last Jedi. Then ghost Luke lifts the X-Wing out of the water to remind Rey of her power and that she's still not alone. Another lesson.

It takes willful ignorance, a lazy desire to jump on a bandwagon, or a petty individual with an agenda to keep this "it's a dig" nonsense up. Its so easily undermined by the actual events in the movie.

Last edited by Martoto; 01-13-2021 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 01-13-2021, 07:41 AM   #23113
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Only a drooling nincompoop or a ludicrously petty creep just following their own chickenshit agenda is keeping this TROS undoes and has digs at TLJ fantasy going.
Wow dude, you have some serious issues. Not kidding. In my many years on this forum, that's the craziest out-of-proportion attack on a perfectly valid opinion I've experienced. That really pisses me off, if I'm being honest, but I'm gonna be a reasonable human being and show you WAYYY more courtesy than you just showed me.

Get some help, brother.
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Old 01-13-2021, 07:56 AM   #23114
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Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post
I'm a HUGE fan of LAST JEDI; it's my third favorite after the '77 original and EMPIRE... but I gotta agree that the "lightsaber catch" in TROS seemed to be a jab at Rian and LAST JEDI. Now I don't think it's proof that Abrams "disliked" LAST JEDI... but it certainly answers for that saber toss that Rian did at the beginning of his movie.
And it's really funny to think about, because I remember hearing that JJ straight up said he loved the script of TLJ and wished he was able to direct it just before TFA came out.

TRoS proves that he lied on that front too, with plenty of backtracking.
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Old 01-13-2021, 07:57 AM   #23115
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Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post
Wow dude, you have some serious issues. Not kidding. In my many years on this forum, that's the craziest out-of-proportion attack on a perfectly valid opinion I've experienced. That really pisses me off, if I'm being honest, but I'm gonna be a reasonable human being and show you WAYYY more courtesy than you just showed me.

Get some help, brother.
It wasn't directed at you. So if you took offense that's not my problem.
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Old 01-13-2021, 08:10 AM   #23116
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It wasn't directed at you. So if you took offense that's not my problem.
Ha... oookay. You literally quoted me. <shrug>

Either way, whomever you were directing it at... you went a little bit over to the Dark Side on that one.
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Old 01-13-2021, 08:15 AM   #23117
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Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post
Ha... oookay. You literally quoted me. <shrug>

Either way, whomever you were directing it at... you went a little bit over to the Dark Side on that one.
Consider the actual continuity of events in both movies that I described, and not just the saber toss in isolation, and tell me if I'm not justified.

No offence meant but it's as dumb as saying that Obi-Wan telling Luke about what happened with Vader in ROTJ is a dig at what Lucas did with Ben in A New Hope.
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Old 01-13-2021, 08:23 AM   #23118
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Originally Posted by Martoto View Post
Consider the actual continuity of events in both movies that I described, and not just the saber toss in isolation, and tell me if I'm not justified.

No offence meant but it's as dumb as saying that Obi-Wan telling Luke about what happened with Vader in ROTJ is a dig at what Lucas did with Ben in A New Hope.
I totally hear you that it "works" in-universe. It totally does. BUT... I honestly do not believe the filmmakers are blind to "fan" chatter, and I cannot separate the way that moment is executed from the reaction the fans had against the lightsaber toss in TLJ.

Filmmakers are human too, and they definitely know what's going on in the community. I feel the same way about
[Show spoiler]Luke's "talent without training is nothing" line
in the Mandalorian. Both moments ABSOLUTELY WORK within context of the Star Wars universe. But both moments carry some obvious baggage, as well. I would friggin' LOVE IT if these moments didn't "bump" for me... but they do. It's my crossed-lightsabers to bear.

EDIT: And it's because I love TLJ so much (again, my third fave Star Wars flick!) and also love Rey so much (in the latter example, above) that those moments "bump" for me at all.
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Old 01-13-2021, 08:25 AM   #23119
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It wasn't directed at you. So if you took offense that's not my problem.
What the hell are you talking about? steel_breeze said he felt TROS takes a jab at TLJ with the saber toss comment and then you gave a long rambling diatribe and said only a drooling nincompoop or a ludicrously petty creep who’s following their own chickensh*t agenda thinks that TROS takes digs at TLJ. Why you think that doesn’t sound like an attack against the person you replied to, I have no idea.
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Old 01-13-2021, 08:41 AM   #23120
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Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post
I totally hear you that it "works" in-universe. It totally does. BUT... I honestly do not believe the filmmakers are blind to "fan" chatter, and I cannot separate the way that moment is executed from the reaction the fans had against the lightsaber toss in TLJ.

Filmmakers are human too, and they definitely know what's going on in the community. I feel the same way about
[Show spoiler]Luke's "talent without training is nothing" line
in the Mandalorian. Both moments ABSOLUTELY WORK within context of the Star Wars universe. But both moments carry some obvious baggage, as well. I would friggin' LOVE IT if these moments didn't "bump" for me... but they do. It's my crossed-lightsabers to bear.

EDIT: And it's because I love TLJ so much (again, my third fave Star Wars flick!) and also love Rey so much (in the latter example, above) that those moments "bump" for me at all.
That "talent without training" line might just as easily have been said by Kylo in place of "You need a teacher. I can show you the ways of the force." in TFA. Only if you're already preoccupied with and filtering everything's worth through the "fan chatter" would you perceive it as anything other than what it is. The line in Mandalorian is a reference to Grogu's utter helplessness without the control his powers and also to Luke's new teacher role at that point in time, passing on what he has learned.

I posted about this elsewhere after the supposed SW Theory "controversy". It's increasingly becoming about SW fans making everything about themselves. Every thing that happens in star wars now is either in direct service to the fans express wishes or willfully slapping them in the face. It's not a million miles from the teenage girl who imagines almost every line in one of Justin Bieber's songs is acknowledging their fandom or dissing their mutual enemies.
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