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Old 01-19-2021, 05:29 PM   #23281
mwynn mwynn is offline
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Originally Posted by JayTL View Post
Well I can tell I was out of my league with this conversation lol
As Hamill said it is all in how you interpret it. All of this is on screen though. We are going to see the same with The High Republic the Jedi are going to fail.

You are not out of your league, this is why this forum is here so we can discuss these things and have fun.
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Old 01-19-2021, 05:45 PM   #23282
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Unfortunately things could not go the way that was originally intended for TROS with the passing of Carrie, so it had to be re-worked around her pre-recorded scenes. However, TLJ is a fantastic set up for TROS.
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Old 01-19-2021, 06:59 PM   #23283
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Quote:
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Unfortunately things could not go the way that was originally intended for TROS with the passing of Carrie, so it had to be re-worked around her pre-recorded scenes. However, TLJ is a fantastic set up for TROS.
I genuinely wish that Lucasfilm would be upfront about that. Might have absolved a few of the sins that movie made. Just an impossible situation, because to tell the story right, they would have to recast,and honestly...who would want that? I think the biggest mistake they made was rushing it though.
We could have waited 3 years instead or even 4 for them to figure out the right story. But Iger wanted that $$$$$.
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Old 01-19-2021, 07:26 PM   #23284
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I genuinely wish that Lucasfilm would be upfront about that. Might have absolved a few of the sins that movie made. Just an impossible situation, because to tell the story right, they would have to recast,and honestly...who would want that? I think the biggest mistake they made was rushing it though.
We could have waited 3 years instead or even 4 for them to figure out the right story. But Iger wanted that $$$$$.
I very much doubt that being seen as publicly using Carrie's death as an excuse would appease and endear Lucasfilm to people who are angry with them about TROS. I reckon it would make many of them even angrier.
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Old 01-19-2021, 07:28 PM   #23285
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Originally Posted by mrjeff View Post
I genuinely wish that Lucasfilm would be upfront about that. Might have absolved a few of the sins that movie made. Just an impossible situation, because to tell the story right, they would have to recast,and honestly...who would want that? I think the biggest mistake they made was rushing it though.
We could have waited 3 years instead or even 4 for them to figure out the right story. But Iger wanted that $$$$$.
I thought they were upfront about it. I remember them saying they had huge plans for her in TROS that they had to change
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Old 01-19-2021, 08:33 PM   #23286
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Originally Posted by kylor View Post
Unfortunately things could not go the way that was originally intended for TROS with the passing of Carrie, so it had to be re-worked around her pre-recorded scenes. However, TLJ is a fantastic set up for TROS.
The Last Jedi is a fantastic setup to a sequel we never got...
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Old 01-19-2021, 08:36 PM   #23287
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I very much doubt that being seen as publicly using Carrie's death as an excuse would appease and endear Lucasfilm to people who are angry with them about TROS. I reckon it would make many of them even angrier.
You somewhat seem to have forgotten how much of an integral role Fisher had in Trevorrow’s treatment for IX. You also forgot how much Trevorrow struggled to re-work his script in the absence of her death. Which is why he soon left the project and Kennedy brought back Abrams. That’s when he worked in his own trilogy plans and did his best to fit the current narrative which Johnson had left in The Last Jedi.
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Old 01-19-2021, 09:36 PM   #23288
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He self identified as a Jedi.
The moment Luke became a true Jedi.

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Old 01-19-2021, 09:57 PM   #23289
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You somewhat seem to have forgotten how much of an integral role Fisher had in Trevorrow’s treatment for IX. You also forgot how much Trevorrow struggled to re-work his script in the absence of her death. Which is why he soon left the project and Kennedy brought back Abrams. That’s when he worked in his own trilogy plans and did his best to fit the current narrative which Johnson had left in The Last Jedi.
I'm not forgetting any of that. I'm responding to someone who thinks Lucasfilm should have made more of Fisher's death. Being up front with it. In the current climate I'm sure if they had played up the fact they Fisher passing had compromised their plans for an optimal final episode (which is almost certainly true) they'd be roasted in some quarters for blaming something else for their failures. First it was the toxic fandom. Then it was fatigue. Now it's dead Carrie Fisher.
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Old 01-19-2021, 10:09 PM   #23290
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I'm not forgetting any of that. I'm responding to someone who thinks Lucasfilm should have made more of Fisher's death. Being up front with it. In the current climate I'm sure if they had played up the fact they Fisher passing had compromised their plans for an optimal final episode (which is almost certainly true) they'd be roasted in some quarters for blaming something else for their failures. First it was the toxic fandom. Then it was fatigue. Now it's dead Carrie Fisher.
Disney/Lucasfilm or even Kathleen Kennedy will never come out and publicly say "Carrie Fisher's death really threw a monkey wrench into our original plans for Episode IX." That's a self-inflicted shot and in bad taste being throwing Carrie under the bus for her death resulting in the poor quality of the films final product.

Not a good look.
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Old 01-19-2021, 10:39 PM   #23291
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Kennedy was adamant that the planned outline with VII being Han's film, VIII being Luke's and IX being Leia's, was preserved. As some of you already wrote, Trevorrow was asked to do the impossible; re-write his script around the notion that he wouldn't get to shoot a single scene with Carrier Fisher, one of the pivotal characters of his proposed IX.

Why didn't Kennedy come to terms with reality and perhaps asked Rian, if VIII could be re-worked to be Leia's farewell and IX would then become Luke's? They had a full year to shoot additional scenes, edit existing Carrie Fisher footage etc. Rian had wrapped principal photography on the film months earlier and was doing post-production. Probably because Kennedy was very happy with VIII as it was and didn't want to change anything; it lined up perfectly with her stated agenda concerning the future of Star Wars and Lucasfilm itself.

To add.... Kennedy wasn't really interested in the SW legacy characters at all; she was pushing the new Disney era characters. Female/diverse/young characters. They were the future of Star Wars (until they weren't).

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Lucas even wanted Jedi to be directed by David Lynch, for goodness' sake.
It's not as strange as it sounds. This is years before Twin Peaks, Blue Velvet and what have you. Lynch had just come off his 1980 Victorian gothic masterpiece The Elephant Man and a lot of producers were courting him. Some of Lucas' director friends were huge fans of Lynch's Eraserhead, a film that Stanley Kubrick recalled as one of his favorite films.

But Lynch turned Lucas down and went with Frank Herbert's DUNE and the rest is history, as they say.
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Old 01-19-2021, 10:41 PM   #23292
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Imagine Lynch directing Jedi. We would find out that not only were Luke and Leia brother and sister but the same person.
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Old 01-19-2021, 11:05 PM   #23293
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Carrie said that it was her best work. I couldn't imagine it being an easy or popular decision to shelve most of it if it was to be her final appearance.
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Old 01-19-2021, 11:27 PM   #23294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvaDK View Post
Kennedy was adamant that the planned outline with VII being Han's film, VIII being Luke's and IX being Leia's, was preserved. As some of you already wrote, Trevorrow was asked to do the impossible; re-write his script around the notion that he wouldn't get to shoot a single scene with Carrier Fisher, one of the pivotal characters of his proposed IX.

Why didn't Kennedy come to terms with reality and perhaps asked Rian, if VIII could be re-worked to be Leia's farewell and IX would then become Luke's? They had a full year to shoot additional scenes, edit existing Carrie Fisher footage etc. Rian had wrapped principal photography on the film months earlier and was doing post-production. Probably because Kennedy was very happy with VIII as it was and didn't want to change anything; it lined up perfectly with her stated agenda concerning the future of Star Wars and Lucasfilm itself.

To add.... Kennedy wasn't really interested in the SW legacy characters at all; she was pushing the new Disney era characters. Female/diverse/young characters. They were the future of Star Wars (until they weren't).


It's not as strange as it sounds. This is years before Twin Peaks, Blue Velvet and what have you. Lynch had just come off his 1980 Victorian gothic masterpiece The Elephant Man and a lot of producers were courting him. Some of Lucas' director friends were huge fans of Lynch's Eraserhead, a film that Stanley Kubrick recalled as one of his favorite films.

But Lynch turned Lucas down and went with Frank Herbert's DUNE and the rest is history, as they say.
Yeah, I dont think Kennedy gave a damn about the original heroes. Honestly, I think the sequels should have not had them in it all. Avoids all controversy then!

I love Lynch but Dune was sort of a bust and I really dont think hes the right guy for a Star Wars film either.
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Old 01-19-2021, 11:30 PM   #23295
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Think about all of the lost youtube content.
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Old 01-19-2021, 11:56 PM   #23296
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Think about all of the lost youtube content.
Thank you Rian and JJ for giving fans something to (whine) talk about.
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Old 01-20-2021, 12:09 AM   #23297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvaDK View Post
Why didn't Kennedy come to terms with reality and perhaps asked Rian, if VIII could be re-worked to be Leia's farewell and IX would then become Luke's? They had a full year to shoot additional scenes, edit existing Carrie Fisher footage etc. Rian had wrapped principal photography on the film months earlier and was doing post-production. Probably because Kennedy was very happy with VIII as it was and didn't want to change anything; it lined up perfectly with her stated agenda concerning the future of Star Wars and Lucasfilm itself.
Just spitballing here, but it's possible that they wanted to mirror the struggle of the OT, with the child redeeming the parent in VI, by having the parent redeem the child in IX, the uncle/nephew dynamic not quite having the same dramatic potential as mother/son.
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Old 01-20-2021, 12:22 AM   #23298
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Just spitballing here, but it's possible that they wanted to mirror the struggle of the OT, with the child redeeming the parent in VI, by having the parent redeem the child in IX, the uncle/nephew dynamic not quite having the same dramatic potential as mother/son.
I think that was probably the intent, but losing Luke in Episode VIII misses out on a potentially greater payoff, and made it more difficult to adjust to Fisher dying.

If instead Luke had been alive after his hologram moment, and if Fisher had lived through filming IX, what if Luke died in the first half of Episode IX at Kylo's hands, and Leia had to forgive her son for killing her brother and still work for his redemption anyway in tandem with Rey? Meanwhile, Rey would have to tangle with the loss of her mentor and act to bring Leia and Kylo back together, thereby creating a "found family", unlike the family she wished to find, but never could? Right in the feels, I think.

Still, with Fisher unfortunately passing away so suddenly, Luke being alive would have still left open most of that arc, allowing Luke and Kylo to potentially patch things up, with Rey joining them as "found family", looking forward to a new future for the Force and its place in the galaxy. This path leaves Kylo looking decidedly less evil/threatening from an audience perspective, but could have worked nonetheless.

Either way, we got what we got because adapting to key players dying is apparently difficult.
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Old 01-20-2021, 04:27 AM   #23299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvaDK View Post
Kennedy was adamant that the planned outline with VII being Han's film, VIII being Luke's and IX being Leia's, was preserved. As some of you already wrote, Trevorrow was asked to do the impossible; re-write his script around the notion that he wouldn't get to shoot a single scene with Carrier Fisher, one of the pivotal characters of his proposed IX.

Why didn't Kennedy come to terms with reality and perhaps asked Rian, if VIII could be re-worked to be Leia's farewell and IX would then become Luke's? They had a full year to shoot additional scenes, edit existing Carrie Fisher footage etc. Rian had wrapped principal photography on the film months earlier and was doing post-production. Probably because Kennedy was very happy with VIII as it was and didn't want to change anything; it lined up perfectly with her stated agenda concerning the future of Star Wars and Lucasfilm itself.

To add.... Kennedy wasn't really interested in the SW legacy characters at all; she was pushing the new Disney era characters. Female/diverse/young characters. They were the future of Star Wars (until they weren't).
Or, ye know, that kind of reworking would have effectively thrown out half of Leia's role in epVIII and nobody at Lucasfilm had the heart to do it.
Keep in mind that for all the talk about how she and Lucasfilm are a bunch of supervillains out to destroy Star Wars, it's just that: talk.

Last edited by Det. Bullock; 01-20-2021 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 01-20-2021, 08:46 AM   #23300
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Carrie worked with Johnson on refining the script for The Last Jedi.

But she died after production was wrapped so lets just throw her and her work under a bantha and arbitrarily extend Luke’s part to appease some of the fans.

Last edited by Martoto; 01-20-2021 at 09:33 AM.
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