Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) - SPOILER THREAD

[Rodney-2187]

Originally Posted by Arawn

Not one bit. I do however miss the unaltered Original Trilogy. I suppose I miss the young George Lucas.

[Porco Azzurro]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Great post and I agree. I actually enjoy the prequels and always watch them whenever I do a Star Wars viewing session. They have flaws, like ANY SW movie, but they work for me.

I cant stand that "George ruined my childhood" comment. Its so stupid. Its like, "hey, idiot, your childhood already happened and therefore cannot be ruined by anyone" Duh?

As for the unaltered original trilogy? I certainly agree that a few of the changes made are NOT good. Han shot first and thats sort of the universally hated change. Then, how they changed the Jedi Rocks song in Jabbas palace. That also sucked. Vader's "nooooo..." in Return of the Jedi seemed lame too. But, I LIKE a lot of the chages and updates and prefer the special editions to the unaltered trilogy. I know, that's get me deported if OT fans had their way but thats how I feel. The effects updates, the Battle of Yavin is way better in the SE, The look and feel of the backdrops/graphics are more in line with the prequels, Hayden Christainsen force ghost works for me, etc, etc.

So, thats my take on it.

Nice to be able to agree with you in this thread for a change

To be clear on my personal position - yeah, I’d really love a restored release of the ‘unaltered’ OT (a somewhat nebulous concept, but anyway, a good quality pre-SE restoration in HD and/or UHD), but I agree many of the changes Lucas made are positive ones, and I think Lucas’ preferred vision of the films will always be my go-to versions. But I’d love to have both. I’d even love Disney to contract Lucas to oversee more updates to refine his existing changes, because I think the execution of some of the CG could only be helped. Also there are still ‘garbage matte boxes’ in some scenes, and other various little things that have never been fixed, which could be.

But, above all that, I put Lucas’ right as creator to veto it. Without Lucas none of it would exist in the first place, in any version. And I believe in the creator having the final say wherever possible, even if I might think I could make a better decision - I didn’t earn the right to make that decision. Every studio boss who takes away final cut and meddles with a directors’ work could use the same arguments to defend their meddling as some use against Lucas.

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

I just feel that Lucas’s choice to not release the unaltered OT deserves harsh criticism, not that he deserves all the over-the-top insults. Sure, he owns his movies and can do what he wants with them (pre-Disney that is), but just because he isn’t required by law to release the original versions doesn’t mean he’s exempt from criticism. He could’ve still had his special editions while also releasing the originals. It worked for Blade Runner and E.T.

I get it, and I agree he could have chosen to do whatever he wanted. Well, he did, and many of us didn’t like the answer.

I’m not saying he’s exempt from criticism, and I guess the distance between “harsh” and “over-the-top” criticism is a relative, subjective one without examples so we may be closer to agreeing than it seemed.

Anyway, The Last Jedi, eh!

To drag things back on topic (a bit) I think it is interesting that RJ is getting some small measure of the kind of nonsense GL had to put up with. I also think it’s interesting to see the increasingly fractured and fractious nature of fandom... it was relatively simple when it was prequels and original trilogies... broadly speaking there were fans of both, and fans who only liked the OT (with outliers who maybe liked one prequel, or preferred the prequels).

Now there is The Clone Wars, the sequel trilogy, Rebels, and the stand-alone films, and that gives us a lot of possible combinations for fandom. My hope is that more people will recognise (and respect) that people will have different opinions about different combinations of Star Wars that they like - that it’s ok to have your own favourites, but insulting others who don’t share the exact same combination of favourites is not just rude and unnecessary, it’s self-defeating if you don’t want the same kind of thing right back at you. “Do unto others...” basically.

[Rodney-2187]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

An army of Rose clones at war with a bunch of Jedi Broom Boys.

War of the Roses.

[Darth Marcus]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

So.....I watched Force Awakens again earlier. Might as well put my thoughts in here, seeing as TLJ is what prompted the rewatch.

I liked it!

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Porco Azzurro

Nice to be able to agree with you in this thread for a change

To be clear on my personal position - yeah, I’d really love a restored release of the ‘unaltered’ OT (a somewhat nebulous concept, but anyway, a good quality pre-SE restoration in HD and/or UHD), but I agree many of the changes Lucas made are positive ones, and I think Lucas’ preferred vision of the films will always be my go-to versions. But I’d love to have both. I’d even love Disney to contract Lucas to oversee more updates to refine his existing changes, because I think the execution of some of the CG could only be helped. Also there are still ‘garbage matte boxes’ in some scenes, and other various little things that have never been fixed, which could be.

But, above all that, I put Lucas’ right as creator to veto it. Without Lucas none of it would exist in the first place, in any version. And I believe in the creator having the final say wherever possible, even if I might think I could make a better decision - I didn’t earn the right to make that decision. Every studio boss who takes away final cut and meddles with a directors’ work could use the same arguments to defend their meddling as some use against Lucas.

I get it, and I agree he could have chosen to do whatever he wanted. Well, he did, and many of us didn’t like the answer.

I’m not saying he’s exempt from criticism, and I guess the distance between “harsh” and “over-the-top” criticism is a relative, subjective one without examples so we may be closer to agreeing than it seemed.

Anyway, The Last Jedi, eh!

To drag things back on topic (a bit) I think it is interesting that RJ is getting some small measure of the kind of nonsense GL had to put up with. I also think it’s interesting to see the increasingly fractured and fractious nature of fandom... it was relatively simple when it was prequels and original trilogies... broadly speaking there were fans of both, and fans who only liked the OT (with outliers who maybe liked one prequel, or preferred the prequels).

Now there is The Clone Wars, the sequel trilogy, Rebels, and the stand-alone films, and that gives us a lot of possible combinations for fandom. My hope is that more people will recognise (and respect) that people will have different opinions about different combinations of Star Wars that they like - that it’s ok to have your own favourites, but insulting others who don’t share the exact same combination of favourites is not just rude and unnecessary, it’s self-defeating if you don’t want the same kind of thing right back at you. “Do unto others...” basically.

Yeah - nice to agree. Hey - its cool, SW is always a heated topic and everyone(you and I incuded) get emotional about it. Thats how it is. No hard feelings.

I agree that there is really no good reason to NOT release the UAOT. I mean....it'd sell pretty well and make a bunch of money I suspect. How hard would it really be for the to do this? I mean, its UNaltered meaning they dont really have o do anything other than burn some blu-rays or UHD's, right?

As for Last Jedi & Johnson - although I still have plenty of issues with the film I do admit that Johnson was in a tough spot here. If he went too safe then he'd get lambasted for being too safe and just re-making Force Awakens or whatever. The other option, which he did was take risks that obviously not everyone liked. Hard to please everyone..... actually its impossible!

I still have to watch TLJ a second time which will happen within the next couple weeks. Im curious if my overall opinions will change. Many times films are better on the second viewing.

[bferr1972]

Originally Posted by rodneyfaile

Not one bit. I do however miss the unaltered Original Trilogy. I suppose I miss the young George Lucas.

There's a bit early on in the Director and the Jedi documentary where Rian is going to receive a call from George Lucas. I really want to know how that conversation played out...

[Porco Azzurro]

Originally Posted by bferr1972

There's a bit early on in the Director and the Jedi documentary where Rian is going to receive a call from George Lucas. I really want to know how that conversation played out...

I thought that too heheh...

I would love to see a filmed conversation between GL and RJ in future (maybe with/in addition to one with JJ), maybe once there is some distance between the ST and maybe after whatever Johnson's trilogy is going to be. I think it would be really interesting to just see them talk about their perspectives on each others' films and where they were coming from and where they disagreed or found surprises, and where they admired things each other had done...

Much like The Director and the Jedi, that is the kind of content I would happily pay for as a separate release. Or maybe it could go on Disney's upcoming digital channel thingummy.

[bferr1972]

Originally Posted by Porco Azzurro

I thought that too heheh...

I would love to see a filmed conversation between GL and RJ in future (maybe with/in addition to one with JJ), maybe once there is some distance between the ST and maybe after whatever Johnson's trilogy is going to be. I think it would be really interesting to just see them talk about their perspectives on each others' films and where they were coming from and where they disagreed or found surprises, and where they admired things each other had done...

Much like The Director and the Jedi, that is the kind of content I would happily pay for as a separate release. Or maybe it could go on Disney's upcoming digital channel thingummy.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if we learned that George has been acting as unofficial consiglieri, like Tom Hagen in The Godfather, to the various writers and filmmakers. We know he visited the set of Solo at one point, and I think I read that he even directed a scene...

[dgoswald]

Originally Posted by bferr1972

It wouldn't surprise me at all if we learned that George has been acting as unofficial consiglieri, like Tom Hagen in The Godfather, to the various writers and filmmakers. We know he visited the set of Solo at one point, and I think I read that he even directed a scene...

Sadly no horse's head in either JJ's or Rian's beds. I can only surmise that he must approve of their work.

[Porco Azzurro]

Originally Posted by bferr1972

It wouldn't surprise me at all if we learned that George has been acting as unofficial consiglieri, like Tom Hagen in The Godfather, to the various writers and filmmakers. We know he visited the set of Solo at one point, and I think I read that he even directed a scene...

It wouldn't surprise me either if he's had more input than is publicly acknowledged, sure. I mean even in terms of the infamous yellow legal pads and various outlines that were reportedly handed over when he sold up - I think there must be a treasure trove of stuff no-one outside Lucasfilm/Disney has ever seen in terms of perceived 'secret sauce' for Star Wars - I imagine the Story Group must have a lot of material for and from past projects that isn't even online and I feel like there is a load of stuff they are already drawing upon from both the current, canon EU, and the previous, deprecated EU.

I'm sure the way it is in my head, like some magical Bat-cave of Star Wars wonders is a very distorted idea of the reality, but I do think they must have a lot of resources to use, and it seems silly if they don't use (major shareholder!) George Lucas' knowledge and history at least a little bit.... "from time to time".

[Rodney-2187]

If Lucas has had significant input anywhere, it's most likely the Rebels series. Filoni mentions Lucas often when he talk about major events of the show.

it is the best action movie!

[NegaScott128]

Shut up, Linda.

[bferr1972]

Originally Posted by dgoswald

Sadly no horse's head in either JJ's or Rian's beds. I can only surmise that he must approve of their work.

Wouldn't that be a Fathier's head? Or a Thala-Siren? Maybe even a Rathar!

[Porco Azzurro]

Originally Posted by rodneyfaile

If Lucas has had significant input anywhere, it's most likely the Rebels series. Filoni mentions Lucas often when he talk about major events of the show.

IMHO Filoni is, himself, a massively underestimated store of Lucas' knowledge in the public's consciousness.

I still haven't seen the end of Rebels, waiting for the BD, but looking forward to it.

[manunited1]

Originally Posted by NegaScott128

Shut up, Linda.

HAHAHAHA this comment killed me. Bravo.

[Rodney-2187]

Originally Posted by Porco Azzurro

I still haven't seen the end of Rebels, waiting for the BD, but looking forward to it.

You will not be disappointed. That's a long time to stay away from spoilers. You should check it out on demand.

[grodd]

I love Lucas. I don't agree with everything he did and I wish he had more checks and balances around him, but I have a very deep respect.

I enjoy Lucas's vision; the prequels and the Clone Wars cartoons more than the last few movies.

It's not that I hate Disney's vision either. While the dialog is improved, I wish there was more world building, better action sequences, and a host of other creative choices with Rey, etc. I just wish was better handled.

I don't think Lucas had much to do with Rebels aside from a jumping off point and an occasional advisor. While on Clone Wars cartoon he was very hands on.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by grodd

I love Lucas. I don't agree with everything he did and I wish he had more checks and balances around him, but I have a very deep respect.

I enjoy Lucas's vision; the prequels and the Clone Wars cartoons more than the last few movies.

It's not that I hate Disney's vision either. While the dialog is improved, I wish there was more world building, better action sequences, and a host of other creative choices with Rey, etc. I just wish was better handled.

I don't think Lucas had much to do with Rebels aside from a jumping off point and an occasional advisor. While on Clone Wars cartoon he was very hands on.

Yep, good points here. George gave us Star Wars - we owe him a debt of gratitude for that alone, right?

You do wonder if hes at all involved "behind the scenes" type of thing though. It wouldnt surprise me.

[dgoswald]

Originally Posted by bferr1972

Wouldn't that be a Fathier's head? Or a Thala-Siren? Maybe even a Rathar!

[Show spoiler]