4K stream vs Blu-Ray disc

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well I disagree, I've never had a problem with any Streaming Provider, even Amazon Prime. With Wired Ethernet you get all the Bandwidth and it's consistent. Wireless is dependent on many things, equipment, signal strength, interference, objects, and even people walking and blocking the signal. My Streaming and Internet connection has always been Wired going back Decades with three different homes with no problems!

Oh sure people walking around attenuate a 5 Ghz microwave signal. If you're worried about signal degradation then use a mesh WiFi router setup to allow the propagation to come from different locations in your house in case you spend too much time in the kitchen with those steel appliances.

[avs commenter]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well I disagree, I've never had a problem with any Streaming Provider, even Amazon Prime. With Wired Ethernet you get all the Bandwidth and it's consistent. Wireless is dependent on many things, equipment, signal strength, interference, objects, and even people walking and blocking the signal. My Streaming and Internet connection has always been Wired going back Decades with three different homes with no problems!

If you have good equipment you almost never have those problems

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Oh sure people walking around attenuate a 5 Ghz microwave signal. If you're worried about signal degradation then use a mesh WiFi router setup to allow the propagation to come from different locations in your house in case you spend too much time in the kitchen with those steel appliances.

Originally Posted by avs commenter

If you have good equipment you almost never have those problems

People are basically Water Bags walking around and that can block the signal. Good equipment and a mesh WiFi setup helps, but I'll put my money on Hardwire if you want full Bandwidth with consistency. Here are 9 things that can block WiFi Signal:

https://dis-dot-dat.net/what-materia...a-wifi-signal/

[avs commenter]

Come on man. Furniture is gonna block my WiFi? My router is in my basement and I have outstanding reception in the opposite corner of my second story. Just as good as hard wired. Pay for the highest speed and buy your own equipment. Don’t use the providers. It’s not complicated

[alchav21]

Well I'm glad it works for you, but WiFi is not as good as Ethernet. Here is an excerpt from an Article by Chris Hoffman Editor in Chief of How-To Geek:

"In the end, Ethernet offers the advantages of better speed, lower latency, and more reliable connections. Wi-Fi offers the advantage of convenience and being good enough for most uses. So, you’ll just have to see if any of your devices fit into the categories where Ethernet will make a difference, and then decide whether it will make a big enough difference to run some cable."

https://www.howtogeek.com/217463/wi-...ed-connection/

[mdo7]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well I'm glad it works for you, but WiFi is not as good as Ethernet. Here is an excerpt from an Article by Chris Hoffman Editor in Chief of How-To Geek:

"In the end, Ethernet offers the advantages of better speed, lower latency, and more reliable connections. Wi-Fi offers the advantage of convenience and being good enough for most uses. So, you’ll just have to see if any of your devices fit into the categories where Ethernet will make a difference, and then decide whether it will make a big enough difference to run some cable."

You may want to add a link to that in case if anybody want to read it for themselves (that include me). Also adding the link to the article also increase your credibility.

[Wendell R. Breland]

There is no need to guess what ones Wi-Fi is like if you have a mobile device, there are several apps that will show your signal strength and speed.

There are folks that use 5 gig Wi-Fi devices to play their UHD BD rips because the ethernet port on the device is limited to 100Base-T and will not work with these rips.

[alchav21]

You're right there is a place for WiFi to serve Mobile Devices, but if you have large files like 4K UHD Content Gigabit Ethernet and Ports are required. Kaleidescape Server setup is all Hardwired!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're right there is a place for WiFi to serve Mobile Devises, but if you have large files like 4K UHD Content Gigabit Ethernet and Ports are required. Kaleidescape Server setup is all Hardwired!

Kaleidescape is a download system. You download your movie to their proprietary device and play the file from it.

I use both both wired and wireless networks to stream content and both work identically well. I would not use a wireless connection at all if it delivered worse results than my wired connections.

[mdo7]

OK, yesterday I got chance to compare Jurassic Park Netflix version and blu-ray (which I owned). I can give you my analysis:

Here's the data bit rate transfer:

Netflix: 6.45 Mbps (This number never changed during my view/observation when watching this version)

Blu-ray: 24.00-38.8 Mbps (couple of scenes, the bit rate would go up to 40.0 Mbps, one scene in JP went up to 45.0 Mbps)

Are the compression noticeable on Netflix? Yes, but not that strong. And there are scenes where it's hard to tell compression or not when comparing to the blu-ray. But there are scenes that are hard to spot compression on Netflix, and I think I can explain why. The BD version of Jurassic Park used VC-1 codec, and I've read it that type of codec doesn't have the highest reputation amongst videophile and picture purist. I was told the VC-1 compression is not good. So that could be the reason why it was much harder to detect compression on JP's Netflix version.

So spotting compression on Goldeneye and Jurassic Park was hard for me because their BD had picture/video imperfection (ie: Goldeneye's BD was plagued by DNR, compression artifacts, edge enhancement. JP's BD used VC-1 codec which come with compression issues).

So on Netflix, I see Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace being available and I have both of their BD copy. So after the new year, I will do another Netflix-BD comparison with Casino Royale. I hope that can give me a definitive analysis for me.

[hansnfranz]

IMO the difference between the disc and stream is much more significant when comparing movies shot on film especially when the transfer has little to no DNR.

I also find that there’s a bigger difference between 1080p Blu-rays and 1080p streams than 4K. Streams aren’t created equal either. The quality really depends on the service. Also I think people focus too much on comparing bitrates when they should focus on comparing the picture quality itself. Ideally you’d want two identical TVs side by side to truly appreciate the difference.

There are two variables which can affect how streams look. Your internet connection of course and your TV’s size. What looks good on 55” and 65” displays may fall apart on a 77”, 85” and 98”+ displays. So what may look nearly pristine on someone’s 55” with reliable fiber may look like crap on someone’s 85” with bad latency.

I would say that Amazon has the best streaming quality period. Check out Live Free or Die Hard or Salt in 4K and you’ll see why. They just had Boyz in the Hood and it looked great as well. It seems that every month they get a handful of Sony 4K releases.

Apple and Vudu are roughly neck and neck as far as 4K but I feel that Vudu’s HDX streams are worse than Apple’s 1080p quality. Apple’s original content (Morning Show, For All Mankind, etc.) looks especially good.

Netflix 4K is pretty damn good as well. Stuff like The Irishman, Roma, El Camino, Mank, The Crown and The Witcher all look great. With 1080p the quality is below Amazon but not bad either. Check out Good Time.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by hansnfranz

IMO the difference between the disc and stream is much more significant when comparing movies shot on film especially when the transfer has little to no DNR.

I also find that there’s a bigger difference between 1080p Blu-rays and 1080p streams than 4K. Streams aren’t created equal either. The quality really depends on the service. Also I think people focus too much on comparing bitrates when they should focus on comparing the picture quality itself. Ideally you’d want two identical TVs side by side to truly appreciate the difference.

There are two variables which can affect how streams look. Your internet connection of course and your TV’s size. What looks good on 55” and 65” displays may fall apart on a 77”, 85” and 98”+ displays. So what may look nearly pristine on someone’s 55” with reliable fiber may look like crap on someone’s 85” with bad latency.

I would say that Amazon has the best streaming quality period. Check out Live Free or Die Hard or Salt in 4K and you’ll see why. They just had Boyz in the Hood and it looked great as well. It seems that every month they get a handful of Sony 4K releases.

Apple and Vudu are roughly neck and neck as far as 4K but I feel that Vudu’s HDX streams are worse than Apple’s 1080p quality. Apple’s original content (Morning Show, For All Mankind, etc.) looks especially good.

Netflix 4K is pretty damn good as well. Stuff like The Irishman, Roma, El Camino, Mank, The Crown and The Witcher all look great. With 1080p the quality is below Amazon but not bad either. Check out Good Time.

Totally agree with this. When I compare some movies where I have the BD and compare it to the stream (even the 4K), I can see the compression artifacts if I am closer to the screen than say about 6 feet. My normal viewing distance is ~10 feet and I'm on a 65" 4K Samsung Crystal LED set. I wouldn't say the streams look bad, but I wouldn't say they rival the disc.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by hansnfranz

IMO the difference between the disc and stream is much more significant when comparing movies shot on film especially when the transfer has little to no DNR.

I also find that there’s a bigger difference between 1080p Blu-rays and 1080p streams than 4K. Streams aren’t created equal either. The quality really depends on the service. Also I think people focus too much on comparing bitrates when they should focus on comparing the picture quality itself. Ideally you’d want two identical TVs side by side to truly appreciate the difference.

There are two variables which can affect how streams look. Your internet connection of course and your TV’s size. What looks good on 55” and 65” displays may fall apart on a 77”, 85” and 98”+ displays. So what may look nearly pristine on someone’s 55” with reliable fiber may look like crap on someone’s 85” with bad latency.

I would say that Amazon has the best streaming quality period. Check out Live Free or Die Hard or Salt in 4K and you’ll see why. They just had Boyz in the Hood and it looked great as well. It seems that every month they get a handful of Sony 4K releases. .

The OP's question is comparing 4K stream and Blu-ray disc (HD/4K).

The gap is wider on HD digital V HD physical because the digital streams are a bit too compressed (6 - 11 Mbps AVBR). Once again, it won't be night and day on TV screens under 70 inches but its not too difficult to pick up compression artifacts on fast moving, gradational shots and dark scenes.

Thankfully this gap is smaller on 4K digital V 4K physical. Why? The streams are encoded using HEVC and significant bump in bit rates (in case of iTunes/MA - 15-25 Mbps AVBR with 31-48 Mbps peak which can vary).

Amazon are arguably the worst when it comes to encoding and as far as movies are concerned.

Netflix/D+ are neck and neck. iTunes are most of the times ahead but some films have the same bit rates and quality as Netflix/D+.

MA is by far consistent as far as 4K video quality (somehow MA films reproduce grain better in motion over any other platforms I have come across) but again this is limited to certain Studios (Universal, Warner and Fox) who produce higher bit rate encodes on MA over other platforms.

See the link on my signature which has tech information for over 1000 films

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by lgans316

The OP's question is comparing 4K stream and Blu-ray disc (HD/4K).

The gap is wider on HD digital V HD physical because the digital streams are a bit too compressed (6 - 11 Mbps AVBR). Once again, it won't be night and day on TV screens under 70 inches but its not too difficult to pick up compression artifacts on fast moving, gradational shots and dark scenes.

Thankfully this gap is smaller on 4K digital V 4K physical. Why? The streams are encoded using HEVC and significant bump in bit rates (in case of iTunes/MA - 15-25 Mbps AVBR with 31-48 Mbps peak which can vary).

Amazon are arguably the worst when it comes to encoding and as far as movies are concerned.

Netflix/D+ are neck and neck. iTunes are most of the times ahead but some films have the same bit rates and quality as Netflix/D+.

MA is by far consistent as far as 4K video quality (somehow MA films reproduce grain better in motion over any other platforms I have come across) but again this is limited to certain Studios (Universal, Warner and Fox) who produce higher bit rate encodes on MA over other platforms.

See the link on my signature which has tech information for over 1000 films

Going further down, DVD is superior to the majority of SD digital streams.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Going further down, DVD is superior to the majority of SD digital streams.

Especially if you have content that was original 16:9, but was OTA as 4:3 for broadcast. We have SG1 being distributed in that manner derived from broadcast source recently as a example.

Going even worse is those Non Anamorphic format (widescreen fitting in a 4:3 aspect ratio, like how bad the old Spartacus DVD and old Enemy of the State DVD was. That was so bad even SD streaming looked superior.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Going further down, DVD is superior to the majority of SD digital streams.

You can stuff your ultra narrow tunnel vision elsewhere mate.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by lgans316

You can stuff your ultra narrow tunnel vision elsewhere mate.

It’s just a fact.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're right there is a place for WiFi to serve Mobile Devices, but if you have large files like 4K UHD Content Gigabit Ethernet and Ports are required. Kaleidescape Server setup is all Hardwired!

Originally Posted by Vilya

Kaleidescape is a download system. You download your movie to their proprietary device and play the file from it.

I use both both wired and wireless networks to stream content and both work identically well. I would not use a wireless connection at all if it delivered worse results than my wired connections.

both are partially right (but wrong in important ways)

https://support.kaleidescape.com/art...g-requirements

Kaleidescape recommends all components be connected to the same wired local area network, and that a Gigabit network connection is used.

A single Strato player, Alto player or Cinema One player (2nd generation) can be connected to the Internet using the Wi-Fi connection.

hardwired is recommended but not mandatory (but you could be limited if you go wireless but that is because of total BW not reliability). And yes purchases are DL (from them to your home). But in your home you have one server and you can have multiple players and the players will steam from the server (ut the ISP and internet connection is n0ot involved)

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by lgans316

You can stuff your ultra narrow tunnel vision elsewhere mate.

how is that tunnel vision?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

how is that tunnel vision?

The guy doesn’t like me speaking my mind as he is a born again digital fanboy having previously collected discs, so thinks everyone has to see things from his viewpoint.