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Old 01-21-2021, 03:32 PM   #61
KManX89 KManX89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister_M View Post
Sure, compare that to the scene in Guardians of the Galaxy 2 where about 100 people get killed by Yondu's arrow. Mass murder in movies these days is fine, as long as it's bloodless. The Matrix seemingly got an R due to trifling details, much like The Frighteners with all that bollocks about a door being shot at too many times. My guess is, someone at the MPAA wanted to punish them for filming it in Australia (which ended up reducing the budget by about 60 million) instead of in America.
I mean, The Expendables 3 originally got an R (despite Sly Stallone saying he was aiming for a PG-13 from the get-go to capture that teen crowd who weren't interested) simply for showing too many bullets hitting, so he's not necessarily wrong. As we saw with both it and The Wolverine, the general rule of thumb for PG-13 is you can't show people getting shot and/or stabbed TOO much, bloodless or not. You could tell they prematurely cut away to avoid the R at various points in the theatrical, such as here. Even the Unrated cut of EX3 doesn't show actual squibs, it's just all of the originally-shot bloodless impacts that were too much for the intended rating.

Like Jay H. said, it had to have been the AMOUNT of bullets hitting. We also see Neo coughing up blood and Morpheus' bloodied face after getting roughed up by Smith. Trinity in a skimpy outfit surely didn't (or did? ) help, either.
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Old 01-21-2021, 04:39 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by xbs2034 View Post
“ Harrison Ford went before the MPAA and appealed to have the movie re-rated to PG-13, but they refused. The attempt was apparently inspired by the successful appeal to re-rate Clear and Present Danger (1994), also starring Ford.”
I think DANGER lost a couple of f-words to get that lower rating though.
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Old 01-21-2021, 07:26 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KManX89 View Post

Like Jay H. said, it had to have been the AMOUNT of bullets hitting. We also see Neo coughing up blood and Morpheus' bloodied face after getting roughed up by Smith. Trinity in a skimpy outfit surely didn't (or did? ) help, either.
True that.. I was actually thinking the Morpheus torture scene was maybe another aspect that barely pushed it over the threshold. At least the sequels earned their R ratings by amping up the sex and bloodshed to an acceptably obvious level
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Old 01-21-2021, 07:37 PM   #64
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True that.. I was actually thinking the Morpheus torture scene was maybe another aspect that barely pushed it over the threshold. At least the sequels earned their R ratings by amping up the sex and bloodshed to an acceptably obvious level
Also things like Mouse getting hit with a hail of bullets in the Matrix intercut with him coughing up blood as he dies on the ship.
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Old 01-21-2021, 07:41 PM   #65
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Except The Matrix was written, filmed, and released before the Columbine incident. That movie, as well as the music of Marilyn Manson, was blamed for the massacre. I'll bite my tongue on that.

Can you imagine if they tried to release The Matrix after Columbine? It NEVER would have gotten an R-rating.
Weird to think the movie came out only 3 weeks before Columbine
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Old 01-21-2021, 07:48 PM   #66
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Weird to think the movie came out only 3 weeks before Columbine
I was in middle school at the time so very big event for me (had never heard of a mass school shooting like that), and I remember some of the news stories at the time debating if The Matrix was an influence behind the shooting.
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Old 01-21-2021, 07:49 PM   #67
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I was in 5th grade and Columbine was only 15 Minutes or so away. We obviously we were in lockdown.
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Old 01-25-2021, 09:59 PM   #68
KManX89 KManX89 is offline
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BTW, I wasn't referring to Texas Chainsaw '74, I said Dead Silence earns its R for how disturbing it is, though you could say the same for the original TCM as well (the dinner scene for example could get an R for subject matter alone). A movie where a freaky ghost woman constantly terrorizes people with nightmarish living dolls and rips their tongue out if/when they scream is naturally gonna get you an R rating no matter how bloodless, which the theatrical apparently didn't show and still got an R, though the unrated cut offers some good old-fashioned onscreen tongue-ripping in addition to said jump scares.

Which BTW: I couldn't sleep for a couple nights after watching it, so I'd say it definitely deserves an R simply for being too scary. No ****ing way would I show that to a 12-year-old, not even the bloodless theatrical.

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Old 01-26-2021, 06:01 AM   #69
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In this case it's a movie that does absolutely earns the R rating but was for some reason aiming for a PG-13, Sinister (2012). The filmmakers actually thought this movie and its content (a story about snuff films) was going to get away with a PG-13. This is why the scene with the throat slitting was cut away from and can only be reflected in the character's glasses (and thus not strongly detailed), why we see nothing graphic in the lawnmower scene, and why we only see the aftermath of the final murder with some blood on the wall. Also language is PG-13 levels (to the point that language isn't mentioned in the rating description), no sex, no drugs.

Honestly, I think aiming for similar restraint would've been helpful for the much more substantially graphic sequel.

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Old 01-26-2021, 08:56 AM   #70
KManX89 KManX89 is offline
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Originally Posted by CrazyBlu-RayFan View Post
In this case it's a movie that does absolutely earns the R rating but was for some reason aiming for a PG-13, Sinister (2012). The filmmakers actually thought this movie and its content (a story about snuff films) was going to get away with a PG-13. This is why the scene with the throat slitting was cut away from and can only be reflected in the character's glasses (and thus not strongly detailed), why we see nothing graphic in the lawnmower scene, and why we only see the aftermath of the final murder with some blood on the wall. Also language is PG-13 levels (to the point that language isn't mentioned in the rating description), no sex, no drugs.

Honestly, I think aiming for similar restraint would've been helpful for the much more substantially graphic sequel.
That might also explain why the theatrical version of Dead Silence doesn't show tongue-ripping (or nudity/sex or repeated F-bombs for that matter), but the unrated cut does: James Wan probably intended for it have a PG-13 rating in theaters and then to save all the gory scenes for the double-dip unrated DVD, but like The Conjuring and its sequels/spin-offs, the MPAA (for good reason, I might add) said it was too disturbing and gave it an R.

Like I said, there's no way a movie with its content was ever going to get anything but an R no matter how much restraint he showed in showing blood. This scene, for example, is an R no matter what.

Last edited by KManX89; 01-26-2021 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 01-26-2021, 09:42 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KManX89 View Post
That might also explain why the theatrical version of Dead Silence doesn't show tongue-ripping (or nudity/sex or repeated F-bombs for that matter), but the unrated cut does: James Wan probably intended for it have a PG-13 rating in theaters and then to save all the gory scenes for the double-dip unrated DVD, but like The Conjuring and its sequels/spin-offs, the MPAA (for good reason, I might add) said it was too disturbing and gave it an R.

Like I said, there's no way a movie with its content was ever going to get anything but an R no matter how much restraint he showed in showing blood. This scene, for example, is an R no matter what.
Except based on the cut comparison, all the unrated version added was a gory tongue for Mary Shaw and some story beats. All tongue removals were fully on screen in gory detail in the R rated version. I think they were aiming for an R from the beginning.
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Old 01-26-2021, 11:16 PM   #72
KManX89 KManX89 is offline
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Originally Posted by CrazyBlu-RayFan View Post
Except based on the cut comparison, all the unrated version added was a gory tongue for Mary Shaw and some story beats. All tongue removals were fully on screen in gory detail in the R rated version. I think they were aiming for an R from the beginning.
Looks like I was deceived then. The IMDb parental guide says they were offscreen.

I still think, even with the offscreen tongue rips, it still would've gotten an R for being too disturbing. Just like The Conjuring films, Sinister, original TCM, etc.
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Old 01-28-2021, 01:18 PM   #73
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One potential new addition to this list is Constantine. No overly graphic violence, 1 F-bomb, no gore, no nudity and it got an R for its subject matter.

Although Keanu does smoke a lot in the movie (cigarettes, but still), maybe that's what pushed it into R territory, I dunno.
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Old 01-28-2021, 01:54 PM   #74
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One potential new addition to this list is Constantine. No overly graphic violence, 1 F-bomb, no gore, no nudity and it got an R for its subject matter.

Although Keanu does smoke a lot in the movie (cigarettes, but still), maybe that's what pushed it into R territory, I dunno.
That was before they even considered smoking as a ratings reason (see the PG rated Good Night, and Good Luck that year) and smoking still seems to push films to a maximum of PG-13.

The director does reveal he shot it intending to be PG-13 and got an R mostly for “tone”

https://collider.com/constantine-r-r...-keanu-reeves/
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Old 02-20-2021, 08:43 PM   #75
KManX89 KManX89 is offline
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Originally Posted by CrazyBlu-RayFan View Post
Except based on the cut comparison, all the unrated version added was a gory tongue for Mary Shaw and some story beats. All tongue removals were fully on screen in gory detail in the R rated version. I think they were aiming for an R from the beginning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KManX89 View Post
Looks like I was deceived then. The IMDb parental guide says they were offscreen.

I still think, even with the offscreen tongue rips, it still would've gotten an R for being too disturbing. Just like The Conjuring films, Sinister, original TCM, etc.
Looks like I was half-right: the theatrical version doesn't show tongue-ripping at all according to this IMDb review and the aforementioned parental guide page.

But I still think it deserves its R rating regardless. It may not show gore, but its horror scenes are so visceral and lingering that it'll scar(e) younger kids/teens regardless, possibly moreso even, assuming we're not talking Evil Dead/Saw sequels levels of gore, of course (it got a 15 in the UK and an R in the US despite having no gore, nudity, sex or F-bombs). Some people have wondered how The Ring managed to get a PG-13 rating and, while it definitely has its intense moments like
[Show spoiler]the dead girl's skeletons in the closet scene
and of course, the scenes with Samara, it's nowhere near as intense as the scenes with Mary Shaw and the live dummies. The Ring is definitely the better movie, but in terms of scares, Dead Silence easily gives me more unrest.

Oh and speaking of the live dummies, the Jigsaw doll can actually be seen in the dollhouse scene. Did anyone else catch that for those who have seen the movie?

Last edited by KManX89; 02-20-2021 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 02-20-2021, 09:37 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by xbs2034 View Post
That was before they even considered smoking as a ratings reason (see the PG rated Good Night, and Good Luck that year) and smoking still seems to push films to a maximum of PG-13.

The director does reveal he shot it intending to be PG-13 and got an R mostly for “tone”

https://collider.com/constantine-r-r...-keanu-reeves/
Yeah, Joker (2019) has a ton of smoking in it but it's not mentioned in its rating description as it's not part of the reason why it's R rated.
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Old 02-21-2021, 01:24 AM   #77
KManX89 KManX89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbs2034 View Post
That was before they even considered smoking as a ratings reason (see the PG rated Good Night, and Good Luck that year) and smoking still seems to push films to a maximum of PG-13.

The director does reveal he shot it intending to be PG-13 and got an R mostly for “tone”

https://collider.com/constantine-r-r...-keanu-reeves/
Not necessarily true. It's Complicated got an R simply for having one scene with a couple smoking pot. Which they appealed and it still got an R.

So yeah, I call BS when people say Poltergeist would get a PG-13 today. It had pot-smoking (which that alone was enough to earn It's Complicated an R) and a guy ripping his own face off, which that alone would also get an R today.
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Old 02-22-2021, 04:04 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KManX89 View Post
Not necessarily true. It's Complicated got an R simply for having one scene with a couple smoking pot. Which they appealed and it still got an R.

So yeah, I call BS when people say Poltergeist would get a PG-13 today. It had pot-smoking (which that alone was enough to earn It's Complicated an R) and a guy ripping his own face off, which that alone would also get an R today.
I think they were talking about tobacco smoking, not pot smoking.

Last edited by CrazyBlu-RayFan; 02-22-2021 at 07:14 PM.
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