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Old 01-02-2007, 12:46 AM   #41
michaeljamesjohnson michaeljamesjohnson is offline
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Thanks for correcting all my misinformation!

I just know that when I first started reading about HD-DVD & BluRay, most reviews claimed that the horrible quality of first gen titles was from MPEG-2 and that the better quality would be seen once studios started using AVC or VC-1.

Seems like most people think HD-DVD is better because a majority of first gen titles used VC-1 and most BluRay first gen titles used MPEG-2.

Obviously there is more to it than this! =)
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Old 01-03-2007, 06:52 PM   #42
Helicon Helicon is offline
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A friend of mine claims that DTS sound on DVHS has at bitrate of 1536kbps per channel, which makes the total bitrate even bigger then the one listed for some Blu Ray movies with LPCM 5.1 24 bit.... Is that true???
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Old 01-03-2007, 06:59 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helicon View Post
A friend of mine claims that DTS sound on DVHS has at bitrate of 1536kbps per channel, which makes the total bitrate even bigger then the one listed for some Blu Ray movies with LPCM 5.1 24 bit.... Is that true???
DTS is a 'lossy' compression scheme, which means the PCM data is compressed and information is discarded, or thrown away in order to lower the bandwidth and bitrate which the audio uses. LPCM is the raw, uncompressed digital audio. DTS, Dolby Digital and all of the various and sundry compression schemes are all taken from either LPCM or analogue masters.
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Old 01-03-2007, 07:39 PM   #44
Deciazulado Deciazulado is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helicon View Post
A friend of mine claims that DTS sound on DVHS has at bitrate of 1536kbps per channel, which makes the total bitrate even bigger then the one listed for some Blu Ray movies with LPCM 5.1 24 bit.... Is that true???
uh? You mean the total bitrate for the D-VHS? Could be, since some Blu-ray movies, specially VC-1 encodes, make the video rate lower. Is this what you're refering to?


But, on the other hand if you say your friend says DTS on D-VHS has a a bitrate of 1536 kb/s per channel (something like 5.1 x 1536 = 7834 kb/s) I think your friend is mistaken.

The DTS 1536 kb/s rate comes from the LPCM 48 kHz/16-bit stereo rate:

48,000 samples per second at 16 bits x 2 channels = 1536000 bits per second or 1536 kb/s, and DTS compresses its 5.1 signal into that bandwidth.


DTS 5.1 1536 kb/s vs a sample of LPCM tracks (from benes' table) on BDs:

LPCM 5.1 4608 kb/s
LPCM 7.1 6144 kb/s
LPCM 5.1 6912 kb/s (24-bit)
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:35 PM   #45
Helicon Helicon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deciazulado View Post
But, on the other hand if you say your friend says DTS on D-VHS has a a bitrate of 1536 kb/s per channel (something like 5.1 x 1536 = 7834 kb/s) I think your friend is mistaken.
Exactly, he says 5.1 * 1536...... He even says it stands on the covers of DVHS movies as Xmen 2, Independence Day etc.....

Just needed to know if I can bet a crate of beers

Now I just need to prove it to him

And benes, sorry for the off topic
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Old 01-03-2007, 09:09 PM   #46
Deciazulado Deciazulado is offline
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I'd think if they had 8Mb/s DTS it wouda classified as SACD/DVD-A super audio and been proclaimed into the 4 winds....

Hey I'm busy making a post. is this gonna be a Beerfest?
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Old 01-03-2007, 09:50 PM   #47
phloyd phloyd is offline
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The DTheater tapes had 1.5 Mbps DTS when included and 576 kbps Dolby Digital. They also featured 23 Mbps MPEG2 video, though it was 21.5 on the DTS releases. Very few were encoded progressively, most were encoded interlaced.

Last edited by phloyd; 01-03-2007 at 10:22 PM. Reason: yeah, what he said :)
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Old 01-03-2007, 10:06 PM   #48
josh1233 josh1233 is offline
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Is the max audio level on all of these formats the same as a CD? Such as "all high bits" being 30 and zero bits being 0. Just wondering for amp clipping and level control.

I have my amps set to a 3:1 clipping ratio for max output. To do this you take the voltage just before clipping and multipy by 3, since this is about the threshold that a human ear can hear clipping. So if the max output before clipping is 7 volts@1k, then the gain/volume control can be set to as high as 21v@1k before you can hear the amp clip.

Just curious. I never get the volume up that high as it would be too loud to comfortably listen the the audio.

Last edited by josh1233; 01-03-2007 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 01-04-2007, 09:48 AM   #49
Helicon Helicon is offline
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Thanks for the help everyone..

benes: In the bitrate list DTS-HD has a bitrate of 3039, actually I thougt it was 6000 on Blu Ray??



http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dts-on-bluray-and-hddvd.php
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Old 01-05-2007, 01:00 PM   #50
AlexBC AlexBC is online now
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Benes,

just to make sure. By what's indicated on the readings, Paramount's BDs features:
DTS tracks at 1536kbps 48khz/24bit
DD tracks at 640kbps 48khz/16bit

Are the DTS tracks a nice improvement over the DD ones? I haven't got any Paramount titles yet, but if that's indeed the case I might start getting some. Since SQ is even more important to me than PQ, for now I'm only getting titles with real master quality 48/24 tracks.

BTW, any chance 'Courage Under Fire', 'Glory Road' and 'The Wild' will make into the list?
Thanks again for this great effort, this is a fantastic thread.
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Old 01-06-2007, 04:26 PM   #51
AlexBC AlexBC is online now
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Quote:
I had this discussion on another AVS thread. I believe all AC3 tracks are 16-bit. And I am going by what my receiver reports on these DTS tracks. For all of the DTS tracks on BD it says 48/24. I thought that maybe my receiver just says that for every track so I checked a bunch of my DVDs and I found some that said 24, 20, and even 16. So I assume the 24 indication for the BD tracks is accurate.
Very nice. Have you done some a/b comparison to check if you could hear any difference on the Paramount titles?

Black Rain may very well be my first Parmount purchase. I've never seen Courage and Glory Road before, so I guess I'll rent the SD first instead of going with a blind buy.

Last edited by AlexBC; 01-06-2007 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 01-10-2007, 03:52 AM   #52
saljr saljr is offline
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DVD movie are less then 4.7 G. So what is Blu-Ray? Size. I'm just trying to learn. O.K.
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Old 01-10-2007, 04:30 AM   #53
Deciazulado Deciazulado is offline
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DVDs come in one layer (4.7 GB), called DVD-5, and in 2 layer version too (DVD-9), saljr. Most DVD movies are DVD-9
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Old 01-12-2007, 12:30 AM   #54
AlexBC AlexBC is online now
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Benes,

any chances we're gonna see readings for The Machurian Candidate, We Were Soldiers and Black Rain once they're out?

If those 1,5 kbps DTS tracks are also 48/24, I think I'm going to be forced to buy some titles with lossy tracks, despite of my commitments
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Old 01-12-2007, 04:13 PM   #55
dobyblue dobyblue is offline
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Where is Ghost in the Shell 2 available from?
I can't find it.
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Old 01-19-2007, 09:15 PM   #56
Shadowself Shadowself is offline
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I've said it before, and now again... this is a great resource. Thanks, Benes. (And please keep it up!)

Question:
Does anyone know of a similar source on data rates and encodings on HD DVD?


I'd just like to have the data to dispell some of the myths that keep getting kicked around (e.g., that VC-1 is great PQ at only 12 Mbps and can be dialed down to 9 Mpbs or lower and still have great PQ). Unfortunately I've run into some guys recently who've somewhat bought into this. If there is a similar set of information on the HD DVD side I'd wage it does not support the 12/9 myth.
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Old 01-31-2007, 03:56 AM   #57
Rob Tomlin Rob Tomlin is offline
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Keep up the great work Benes!
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:37 PM   #58
AlexBC AlexBC is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post
Lots more titles coming soon...
Great
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Old 01-31-2007, 11:08 PM   #59
PeterTHX PeterTHX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post
I believe all AC3 tracks are 16-bit.
AC-3 can be mastered in either 16/20/24 bits.

Does your receiver list bit resolution for DD the same way it does DTS?
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Old 02-04-2007, 05:53 AM   #60
Behemoko Behemoko is offline
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Very good info indeed, i was wondering what alot of the bitrates were, and now i have a source. :-)

Last edited by Behemoko; 08-02-2007 at 04:54 AM.
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