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Old 10-30-2020, 09:03 PM   #21
JayTL JayTL is offline
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Once again, and I've said it at any point during the digital vs physical "debate".

Anyone who has gone digital knows what they "own" and what they don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowKiller View Post
While not music, I've lost digital stuff in the gaming world. As in they shut shit down and I can't even redownload what I bought. It can definitely happen with anything digital. Sure, maybe right now your stuff is safe, but who knows what tomorrow will bring. Whatever happens though, you have no say in it and never will. Sure discs could crap out, but most likely, if you take decent care of them, they may out last you. There's also other factors like theft or natural disasters but I wouldnt have a collection out in a crime prone area or tornado/flood alley to begin with.

It's going to be hard to not find anything that plays these discs, even for many years to come. From players to game consoles. Things can return as fads like vinyl did.

As I also mentioned, one cam also do a media server, which is the best of both words.
For the video game example. Same thing can and has happen if you own the physical disk. Video games have even less rights than most other media lol
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Old 10-30-2020, 09:08 PM   #22
bhampton bhampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTL View Post
Anyone who has gone digital knows what they "own" and what they don't.
As in nothing ?

I tried to put all my media in iTunes. I lost access to content I paid for. I learned.

Others will learn the truth, it’s in the terms and conditions. I fear for some they will have to learn this the hard way.
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Old 10-30-2020, 09:11 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowKiller View Post
While not music, I've lost digital stuff in the gaming world. As in they shut shit down and I can't even redownload what I bought. It can definitely happen with anything digital. Sure, maybe right now your stuff is safe, but who knows what tomorrow will bring.
I'm not big into gaming, but I do have a Steam account that I opened when Half Life 2 came out. That was roughly 16 years ago (I'm getting old ) and I bought maybe one or two dozen other games over time, and I haven't lost anything.

I think all this "OMG they can take away my content" paranoia is vastly exaggerated. And even if I did lose a movie once in a blue moon, it wouldn't be the end of the world. I have hundreds of Blu-rays taking up space which I will probably never watch again. At some point all this hoarding just stops making sense ...
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Old 10-30-2020, 09:37 PM   #24
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I have a large digital collection as well. I have never had a title removed. If a title were to be removed, as long as I was refunded the purchasing price, I don't have an issue with it.
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Old 10-30-2020, 09:39 PM   #25
JayTL JayTL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moviefan112 View Post
I have a large digital collection as well. I have never had a title removed. If a title were to be removed, as long as I was refunded the purchasing price, I don't have an issue with it.
I promise you that you wouldn't even be notified lol
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Old 10-30-2020, 09:46 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhampton View Post
As in nothing ?

I tried to put all my media in iTunes. I lost access to content I paid for. I learned.
I don't understand this argument. I have 200K+ albums on an external hard drive as well as in the cloud. I own them all, and they're not going away.
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Old 10-30-2020, 09:50 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkoffman View Post
I don't understand this argument. I have 200K+ albums on an external hard drive as well as in the cloud. I own them all, and they're not going away.
Help me to clarify.

You have music files .... ok, but does that have anything to do with the fact that people buying content from Amazon don’t actually own it?

The terms and conditions of these services are not hard to read. Most of them begin now with the rule that you will not participate in any class action suits. That’s usually right up top. For some reason.

Buying movies from Amazon or ITunes is a castle made of sand. To the extent it does work for people I’m thrilled but it is easy to trick someone when there is a buy button and all your are buying is the ability to view someone else’s content.

Ps you have over 200 thousand albums!? Holy cow. I hate most new music ... I’m fairly picky about music. Do you like that stuff or did you just have fun collecting it ?
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Old 10-30-2020, 10:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhampton View Post
Help me to clarify.

You have music files .... ok, but does that have anything to do with the fact that people buying content from Amazon don’t actually own it?
...
Ps you have over 200 thousand albums!? Holy cow. I hate most new music ... I’m fairly picky about music. Do you like that stuff or did you just have fun collecting it ?
Let me clarify. I own the albums. All of them. I've been collecting music my whole life and I'm almost 50. I sold 99% of my LPs and CDs, but digitized all of the CDs and some of the vinyl too. Keep in mind that the album count includes singles, EPs, bootlegs, etc. And various versions of the same albums by The Beatles, Elvis Costello, and on and on.

This is what I'm responding to:

Originally Posted by JayTL:
Anyone who has gone digital knows what they "own" and what they don't.

Your response:
As in nothing ?
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Old 10-30-2020, 10:12 PM   #29
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"When consumers buy a DVD or Blu-ray disc, they are not purchasing the motion picture itself, rather they are purchasing access to the motion picture which affords only the right to access the work according to the format's particular specifications (i.e., through the use of a DVD player), or the Blu-ray disc format specifications (i.e., through the use of a Blu-ray format player). Consumers are able to purchase the copy at it's retail price because it is distributed on a specific medium that will play back only on a licensed player."
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Old 10-30-2020, 10:22 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkoffman View Post
Let me clarify. I own the albums. All of them. I've been collecting music my whole life and I'm almost 50. I sold 99% of my LPs and CDs, but digitized all of the CDs and some of the vinyl too. Keep in mind that the album count includes singles, EPs, bootlegs, etc. And various versions of the same albums by The Beatles, Elvis Costello, and on and on.

This is what I'm responding to:

Originally Posted by JayTL:
Anyone who has gone digital knows what they "own" and what they don't.

Your response:
As in nothing ?
Ok, I think I see the problem. Some people say “going digital” in reference to buying movies online. In this case what they “own” is a license to watch something on the service. They don’t “own” any thing.

All of this has zero to do with our side topic about music. I have a music server for the music I love most. I also subscribe to Apple Miusic mostly for my kids.

I am only slightly familiar with how buying digital music works. My music tends to come from Cds or Blu Rays.
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Old 10-30-2020, 10:32 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhampton View Post
Ok, I think I see the problem. Some people say “going digital” in reference to buying movies online. In this case what they “own” is a license to watch something on the service. They don’t “own” any thing.

All of this has zero to do with our side topic about music. I have a music server for the music I love most. I also subscribe to Apple Miusic mostly for my kids.

I am only slightly familiar with how buying digital music works. My music tends to come from Cds or Blu Rays.
You responded to this comment about music, which is why we're talking about it now.

Originally Posted by Fiffy:
Who lost giant music collections?


Many music fans I know have been "going digital" since the 90s, but not so much or as far back with movies, obviously.
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Old 10-30-2020, 10:36 PM   #32
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I did reply to the music question.


I don’t know if you are still confused. If so, I can try to explain more.

Music is different as far as I know because some online vendors sell download able drm free music.

Far as I know, no service provides 4K movie downloads at all. Edit except Kaliedescape

Last edited by bhampton; 10-30-2020 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 10-30-2020, 10:59 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhampton View Post
I did reply to the music question.


I don’t know if you are still confused. If so, I can try to explain more.

Music is different as far as I know because some online vendors sell download able drm free music.

Far as I know, no service provides 4K movie downloads at all.
No, I'm not confused about DRM, whether it's films or music. I've worked in the music industry for 30+ years.
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Old 10-30-2020, 11:14 PM   #34
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Ok
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Old 10-30-2020, 11:39 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTL View Post
For the video game example. Same thing can and has happen if you own the physical disk. Video games have even less rights than most other media lol
Only for games that require an internet connection. None of my video games can ever be taken away because they are all on disc and can all be played completely offline. I've never connected any of my consoles to the internet and all of my games work perfectly.
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Old 10-30-2020, 11:40 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 6 View Post
"When consumers buy a DVD or Blu-ray disc, they are not purchasing the motion picture itself, rather they are purchasing access to the motion picture which affords only the right to access the work according to the format's particular specifications (i.e., through the use of a DVD player), or the Blu-ray disc format specifications (i.e., through the use of a Blu-ray format player). Consumers are able to purchase the copy at it's retail price because it is distributed on a specific medium that will play back only on a licensed player."
When people say they want to actually own it, they don't mean the actual rights of the movie. It has to do with owning a copy of the movie they can view anytime they want without fear of it randomly possibly being taken away or altered due to rights issues. GTA IV got a patch much later, long after release that actually took music out the game and nothing more. Granted it was Russian stuff that most wouldn't care about, but just shows what can happen. Of course if you have a physical copy, that can't be patched out and you could always delete the updates/reinstall if that was a big deal to someone. If you have the digital version and you updated, not knowing what it was doing, you'd be SOL.

People just have this feeling that everything will be ok, because it's ok now. Maybe it will be ok forever, but that's up to those who own the rights. All it will ever be is an extended rental. How extended that will be the ultimate question.
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Old 10-30-2020, 11:49 PM   #37
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There are two possible scenarios:

A) People will lose some of their purchased digital movies.

B) All studios and content providers will continue to support every digital movie they've ever released for all time.

What in the history of the world could possibly make anyone think that scenario B is more likely?
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Old 10-31-2020, 01:15 AM   #38
JayTL JayTL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity View Post
Only for games that require an internet connection. None of my video games can ever be taken away because they are all on disc and can all be played completely offline. I've never connected any of my consoles to the internet and all of my games work perfectly.
I've got some bad news for you regarding the future of video games
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Old 10-31-2020, 02:40 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTL View Post
I've got some bad news for you regarding the future of video games
There are certainly more and more games that require an internet connection but I'm not worried yet. The PlayStation 4 has hundreds of games that can be played without ever needing to download anything and I am sure that the PlayStation 5 will too.
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Old 10-31-2020, 04:17 AM   #40
JayTL JayTL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity View Post
There are certainly more and more games that require an internet connection but I'm not worried yet. The PlayStation 4 has hundreds of games that can be played without ever needing to download anything and I am sure that the PlayStation 5 will too.
Alright. Well if you consider going through all those hoops and playing the games without any updates or patches as "owning", well more power to you. I personally don't, since I know what my ownership rights are.
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