The Iceman Cometh (88 Films)

[Pochacco]

Originally Posted by OldPangYau

I've come to learn that with Fortune Star it can be very "YMMV" as to what footage we can get for what film, how many cuts we can get for each, etc. I'm honestly curious as to what FS was using as a "base" to construct the 122 minute version though.



I wish we actually looked that organized on camera, but it's really a bunch of people spread over parts of the US, UK, and of course Hong Kong... a lot of emails and WeTransfers/DropBoxes from "home offices", lol.

So 3 hours of 'NG' takes? Excellent!

[Irongod2112]

Originally Posted by OldPangYau

I wish we actually looked that organized on camera, but it's really a bunch of people spread over parts of the US, UK, and of course Hong Kong...

Don't forget our mates down
under in Australia!

Iceland & Norway too!!

[WaverBoy]

Originally Posted by OldPangYau

So, 88 was given that same 122 min cut, and we thought "oh, this but be the Taiwanese cut on the old Taiwanese VHS"... except footage was still missing. So I compiled all of the missing shots using that VHS rip, 88 sent it to FS to see if they could find those shots, and lo and behold they did. So FS scanned them and 88 cleaned them up, and they're dropped seamlessly into the main restoration.

BB to the rescue once again. I really can’t thank you enough for busting your ass like you do to get us these extended and hybrid cuts of these films, and in the finest quality possible. Sir, you are a Hong Kong film reconstruction hero. Major kudos also to 88 for being so willing to collaborate with expert outside contributors, and to all the other such expert outside contributors including Irongod and Mark. And I should thank Fortune Star too, who appears to be much more forthcoming with materials these days and much more willing to help make releases from their holdings be the best that they can be.

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by Irongod2112

Don't forget our mates down
under in Australia!

I even have a picture of one!

[Show spoiler]

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Markgway

I'll PM you a link to my OnlyFans page.

There had better be puśśy pics

[darkness2918]

The extra 5 mins is enough to get me to pick up the 88 Films version. I’ll be getting the VS version also but more so to support more of these films coming to the U.S. as well.

[KayJay22]

Originally Posted by Sleazeaddict

Will skip VS and buy 88 this time, should have done this for Righteous Wrongs.

I'm in the UK with a limited budget so it's always the 88 releases for me.

I do feel so fortunate that the UK is in the middle of an avalanche of awesome HK releases.

We're now getting stuff not released since the days of VHS (and I'm told many of those old VHS were in awful video quality).

The boutique labels really have kickstarted a new appreciation and new audience for the classic HK movies.

[OldPangYau]

Originally Posted by The Mole

But it shows that FS are 1. willing to look for these materials and hand them out (which is really great to begin with) and 2. a proof that the archives of HK studios hold much more materials in much better quality than we were told in the past (which is a great relief because many of these extended and alternate cuts were considered lost forever or only still existing in the form of old VHS tapes, laserdiscs and crappy DVDs).

Maybe if 88 Films were willing to re-release THE PROTECTOR, FS might even be able to find the original materials for the Jackie-Chan-version.

I'd LOVE for a proper HD/2K restoration of the HK or Japanese cuts of The Protector. Though I don't know how much incentive there would be for 88 to re-release it, especially since that doesn't have the added benefit of a Kung Fu Bob cover since he already did the first one, unlike the scenario with the first four JC titles. But hey, I'd love to see it happen!

Originally Posted by Irongod2112

Don't forget our mates down
under in Australia!

Good call, that's what I get for responding to this at nearly four in the morning, lol.

Originally Posted by WaverBoy

BB to the rescue once again. I really can’t thank you enough for busting your ass like you do to get us these extended and hybrid cuts of these films, and in the finest quality possible. Sir, you are a Hong Kong film reconstruction hero. Major kudos also to 88 for being so willing to collaborate with expert outside contributors, and to all the other such expert outside contributors including Irongod and Mark. And I should thank Fortune Star too, who appears to be much more forthcoming with materials these days and much more willing to help make releases from their holdings be the best that they can be.

It's definitely a team effort, and a lot of "let's try and see what happens". Sometimes we get lucky such as this, and sometimes it's "empty hands". We figured since *some* of the extra footage was already found and restored for the 122 minute cut that there was a *chance* the remaining footage would be there.

[Irongod2112]

Originally Posted by OldPangYau

We figured since *some* of the extra footage was already found and restored for the 122 minute cut that there was a *chance* the remaining footage would be there.

This may still be missing some footage but I think it's just a second or two.

[Mr_Orange]

More wallet pain for us faraway importers... you guys are killing me .

[cooey]

[supertwix_64]

Originally Posted by cooey

Knocking it out of the park yet again. Think I'll go with the Taiwanese cut w/ the hybrid Cantonese/Mandarin audio for my first viewing. Love the amount of effort 88 films puts into the audio of these releases!

[Geoff D]

But will there be a UHD at some point? I'm starting to get a bit twitchy about buying any more HK flicks on BD, not that everything is being released on UHD (and god knows when Dragons Forever will actually come out) but still, it's making me think twice.

[Broomey]

Shame with most of his best films getting great Blu Ray releases this year that Yuen Biao cant be found or wants to do any new interviews.

[Owenjohnston]

Originally Posted by OldPangYau

So, 88 was given that same 122 min cut, and we thought "oh, this but be the Taiwanese cut on the old Taiwanese VHS"... except footage was still missing. So I compiled all of the missing shots using that VHS rip, 88 sent it to FS to see if they could find those shots, and lo and behold they did. So FS scanned them and 88 cleaned them up, and they're dropped seamlessly into the main restoration.

That's amazing work, but also slightly concerning what other materials FS could have access to that we don't even know about.

[Labor_Unit001]

Surprised to see them bring back an archive commentary from Bey Logan after his stuff has been absent for so long.

All in all looks fantastic and definitely happy with all these extras. I'm curious what the before/after vfx extra is.

[OldPangYau]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But will there be a UHD at some point? I'm starting to get a bit twitchy about buying any more HK flicks on BD, not that everything is being released on UHD (and god knows when Dragons Forever will actually come out) but still, it's making me think twice.

So, one thing that can determine *possible* future 4K releases: if the films were restored in 4K. The list of 4K restored Fortune Star films is still relatively small at the moment:

-The Big Boss
-Fist of Fury
-Way of the Dragon
-Game of Death
-Winners and Sinners
-Twinkle Twinkle Lucky Stars (that's right, no 4K for My Lucky Stars)
-Police Story Trilogy
-Dragons Forever
-Miracles
-Once Upon A Time in China trilogy

Granted, many Fortune Star titles have had 4K *scans* prior to their 2K *restorations*, so 4K restorations wouldn't be impossible, but the distributors would have to fund those restorations rather than utilizing already restored masters provided by Fortune Star.

[AnimalCMan]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But will there be a UHD at some point? I'm starting to get a bit twitchy about buying any more HK flicks on BD, not that everything is being released on UHD (and god knows when Dragons Forever will actually come out) but still, it's making me think twice.

I mean, I guess that depends if you want every Hong Kong release in 4K?

I can only speak for myself, but I try to limit all my UHD purchases to things I feel are classics. Even in the Hong Kong film space, picking up stuff like the Police Story trilogy and Dragons Forever are easy choices to make, as DF is my favorite Jackie Chan film and PS1 my second.

But yeah, a lot of stuff put out by 88Films and Eureka in the past few years have been blind buys for me. I'd rather just keep getting the blu-rays if I'm trying to decide how I actually feel about each of them.

If any of these companies later decide to put any out on UHD, I can at least decide if I need them. I assume the companies are making similar financial decisions on what they think will be a slam dunk for 4k sales.

[AnimalCMan]

Originally Posted by OldPangYau

Granted, many Fortune Star titles have had 4K *scans* prior to their 2K *restorations*, so 4K restorations wouldn't be impossible, but the distributors would have to fund those restorations rather than utilizing already restored masters provided by Fortune Star.

Are companies like 88Films and Eureka really just eliminating films from the possibility of a UHD release if they only had a 2K remaster? If so, that makes me a little sad. Plenty of Hollywood films got UHD releases using a 2K DI and while some people around these forums have complained about that, from my perspective, if a studio thought 2K was good enough to go into the cinema, I don't see a problem with using that for a UHD release. Just the inclusion of HDR alone is often worth the upgrade for me.

[OldPangYau]

Originally Posted by AnimalCMan

Are companies like 88Films and Eureka really just eliminating films from the possibility of a UHD release if they only had a 2K remaster? If so, that makes me a little sad. Plenty of Hollywood films got UHD releases using a 2K DI and while some people around these forums have complained about that, from my perspective, if a studio thought 2K was good enough to go into the cinema, I don't see a problem with using that for a UHD release. Just the inclusion of HDR alone is often worth the upgrade for me.

So this is a bit of an "apples and oranges" comparison. The biggest difference is how each movie was finished. Basically 99.99% of theatrical released films prior to 2000 were finished on 35mm film, and thus the only steps to get to 4K would be scanning and restoring in 4K. Not super cheap for the restoration aspect, but not impossible.

For newer films finished on a 2K DI, in many cases, that is the only master available for the film. For true 4K, production companies would have to go back to the raw materials (and some some digitally shot films, they may be weird sub-4K resolutions, such as 2.8k, 3.5k, etc), find the correct takes, reconstruct the film, match the color grade of the finished film, then decide to upscale the special effects or recreate them. A *LOT* more man hours and a *LOT* more money than just scanning/restoring a 35mm-finished film in 4K. This is why many UHDs of newer films just stick to the 2K DI.

And also remember one more sore spot for HK film fans: years and YEARS of older blu-rays that just took standard definition masters and blew them up to "HD". So if a 2K master that was prepped for blu-ray was just blown up to "4K" when there's no reason to not scan/restore in 4K for an authentic release (outside of budget), people won't buy. And it could blemish the company releasing it.

In short, there's no excuse for a pre-2000 film to get a UHD release that isn't from a true 4K source.