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Old 01-24-2019, 09:32 AM   #521
JohnAV JohnAV is offline
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On a related note

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Netflix announced today that it is joining the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA), making it the first internet-based service to join the 97-year-old trade association. The move marks Netflix's intentions to be taken seriously in Hollywood circles, shifting from being just a technology service that hosts other studio's content to a full-blown production company with its own massive distribution platform.

Netflix joins six legacy studios in the MPAA: Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures, Paramount Pictures, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Twentieth Century Fox, Universal City Studios and Warner Bros. Entertainment. Prior to joining the lobbying group, Netflix departed from the Internet Association -- a major industry trade group representing tech companies including Google, Amazon and Facebook. Netflix had been a member of the internet Association since 2013. The trade groups have been at odds in the past and have publicly feuded at times.

Netflix has slowly been shifting its views to better align with the MPAA for the last few years. One of the trade group's biggest issues in recent years has been piracy, and Netflix formed an anti-piracy group in 2017 to help crack down on illegal streaming sites. Netflix also brought on Dean Garfield, the former executive vice president and chief strategy officer of the MPAA, to lead its global public policy initiatives.
Note Netflix join Motion Picture Association but drops out being a member of the internet Association.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:47 AM   #522
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The best part about physical media is ownership. You physically own the video game, CD, DVD, Blu-ray, book, etc. It is something you hold in your hand and display on your shelf. You build up a library on your shelf. You develop a personal attachment to it for many years.

I still have original Xbox games and many DVD's. Many of these are likely approaching 20 years old, if they aren't already. Physical media gives you great memories. It gives you memories of the game/movie, and the time it was made in. All those memories of that time come rushing back.

Digital is convenient, but there's nothing special about it. No box, no artwork, nothing you touch, etc. Digital is just content on screen. It doesn't go any deeper than that.

All this is why I like physical media more. Nothing can top a physical collection. It is something special, and after many years, rediscovering it is magical.

If most people go digital, and physical media becomes just a hobby for collectors, maybe we'll start seeing some truly great boxes and artwork. After all, physical media would become even more special if most people went digital.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:58 AM   #523
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I actually miss the days of physical instruction manuals for video games, while we're on that particular subject. I think I read the Metroid Prime one about 400 times.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:59 AM   #524
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
On a related note



Note Netflix join Motion Picture Association but drops out being a member of the internet Association.
This is the future, exclusives tied to each streaming company. Itís going to be grim.
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:34 AM   #525
koberulz koberulz is offline
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It's essentially the studio era all over again, but worse.
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:48 AM   #526
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Originally Posted by koberulz View Post
It's essentially the studio era all over again, but worse.
And with new players.
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:09 AM   #527
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Originally Posted by Steedeel View Post
This is the future, exclusives tied to each streaming company. Itís going to be grim.
It's already grim.

As far as I'm concerned, Netflix (and any other streaming company) needs to stay away from the film industry. Let them keep themselves occupied with TV shows on the small screen and leave films for the intended big screen and subsequent (physical) home media.
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:16 AM   #528
Petra_Kalbrain Petra_Kalbrain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
On a related note



Note Netflix join Motion Picture Association but drops out being a member of the internet Association.
They better start releasing their films in theatres then. Otherwise, their membership is absolute bulsh!t.
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Old 01-24-2019, 12:12 PM   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
I just bought the US UHD of The Shallows for £20 just for that sick lenticular slip cover
I thought you were anti-tat!

I'm glad you packaging peeps exist, don't get me wrong. A ton of people who don't give two shits about quality or ownership still buy discs for packaging, and I want them to keep doing so. Even if I tease them here and there.
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Old 01-24-2019, 12:36 PM   #530
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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Look at it this way: I don't collect tat on a regular basis but if I see something that I like, then I like it.
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Old 01-24-2019, 12:45 PM   #531
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
if I see something that I like, then I like it.
Checks out.

Seriously though I get that. I have bought a handful of things for the booklet and better art, like Arrow's Children of Men or Indicator's Odessa File. For movies I really like those two things can be compelling.
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Old 01-24-2019, 03:46 PM   #532
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Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
Discs include cover art and packaging
And they are usually awful these days, imo. That's part of the point I'm making.
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Old 01-24-2019, 03:51 PM   #533
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Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity View Post
The studios and providers can never take away my ability to watch any of my discs.
Move onto streaming and the manufacturers will stop making playback hardware in time. When was the last time you saw a VCR or laserdisc player available at Best Buy?

There are films that have only been released on VHS and laserdisc. If you want to watch those films in your home environment, you better pray your VCR and laserdisc players still work, otherwise you're screwed.

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Whether the discs come with cover art or not has no effect on any of that.
It's quite clear that you don't place nearly as much value on the entire package as I do.
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Old 01-24-2019, 03:56 PM   #534
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Originally Posted by agoofykindasuperman View Post
Would almost prefer just clear cases with discs.
There is very little breathing room between you and full time streaming advocates, imo. When it comes down to splitting the difference between releasing an art-less disc package and throwing the film up on a streaming platform, that will be the die physical media dies. NOTE: I'm talking about the studios' perspective here.
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:06 PM   #535
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Originally Posted by davcole View Post
I think eventually disc will go away but I need streaming to have the same audio/video quality as disc!
The average consumer sees a marginal difference, if any; any perceived AV quality uptick with physical is not enough to move the needle.

Come up with a different incentive.

"But home video now is for the enthusiast market, not the mainstream market who don't care about quality!"

I actually agree with this, which is why it's dying, because the entire package itself lacks what could appeal greatly to the enthusiast market.
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:11 PM   #536
Dynamo of Eternia Dynamo of Eternia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archivy View Post
Move onto streaming and the manufacturers will stop making playback hardware in time. When was the last time you saw a VCR or laserdisc player available at Best Buy?

There are films that have only been released on VHS and laserdisc. If you want to watch those films in your home environment, you better pray your VCR and laserdisc players still work, otherwise you're screwed.
VCRs were only completely discontinued within the last few years. Up until just a few years ago, VCR/DVD combo units were still common.

There are plenty of VCRs out there that if one stops working, someone can get one from ebay or something. While they may be somewhat more limited, the same can go for Laserdisc players. And there are ways to back up the content on those older formats on newer storage mediums as an extra precaution for anything someone really cares about, but hasn't been released on newer formats.

Quote:
It's quite clear that you don't place nearly as much value on the entire package as I do.
I don't think that's necessarily true. He didn't say that he doesn't care about packaging and aesthetics at all.

His point is simply that with physical media, as long as the media itself is in good, working condition, and you have a working player, no one can legally take away your access to it like they technically can with digital (their ability to remove the title is right there in the fine print of the EULAs for these things).

And that advantage for physical media would still hold true whether or not you have the original packaging.

While having the entire package is preferable and optimal, if you want to obtain an out-of-print movie that you never previously bought, or if your copy gets damaged, there are secondary market options to acquire/reacquire the content. If an out of print movie goes for a huge amount of money for the complete package, but someone is selling the disc only in a generic case for a lower price, than that could be appealing. You can likely find and print up the artwork to get something really close to the original. And in the instance of replacing a damaged copy, you likely already have the packaging anyway.

There was an old movie that at one point I was thinking about (that had come out many years prior, and it had been a long time since I had thought about it), and decided to see if it was ever released on DVD or Blu-Ray. It turned out that it was released on DVD at one point, but had since gone out of print and was going for a lot on ebay and the like. More than I really wanted to pay.

Sometime after I made that discovery, when my local Blockbuster video was going out of business, I went there to see what they had that they were selling off. In addition to the movies in cases on the shelves, they also had a ton of discs in envelopes from their previous mail-rental service that they were selling for like $1 or so each. As I was looking through them, I was surprised to find a copy of that movie. And as I kept going through them to see what else that had, I found that they had a few copies. Since all sales were final and it was only $1 each, I bought three copies of it (as insurance in case one was scratched or something).

Would I have preferred the complete package? Of course. But at the price of $3 compared to the going rate of about $60 to $100 or so on ebay to get the movie with the case, I was fine with making the compromise. I put them in a 3-disc DVD case. I had a hard time finding decent artwork, but printed what I could find. If I ever come across a better quality scan of the artwork, I'll print that up. But for now I'm fine with how that panned out.
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:18 PM   #537
Archivy Archivy is offline
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Originally Posted by x7q3 View Post
If most people go digital, and physical media becomes just a hobby for collectors, maybe we'll start seeing some truly great boxes and artwork.
Conceive such a home video environment for a moment: Will the profit margin be enough to support catering only to collectors?

Pages back in this thread, posters here argued that young people don't have the collectors' mindset anymore. There's no nostalgia for them in owning physical as you described, because they never owned physical copies to begin with. They are growing up with streaming, and they are the demographic with disposable income. What's the business incentive in targeting only the aging among us? I'm sure some specialty labels could skate by for a while, but it will be slim pickings. Many boutique labels right now have trouble making ends meet; it will only get worse.
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:55 PM   #538
Archivy Archivy is offline
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Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
There are plenty of VCRs out there that if one stops working, someone can get one from ebay or something. While they may be somewhat more limited, the same can go for Laserdisc players.
The guy just got done writing, quote, "I care about owning the discs because it means that I'm not dependent on anyone else to watch them." Yet what you're describing is the epitome of being dependent on someone else to watch them.

Quote:
I don't think that's necessarily true. He didn't say that he doesn't care about packaging and aesthetics at all.

His point is simply that with physical media, as long as the media itself is in good, working condition, and you have a working player, no one can legally take away your access to it like they technically can with digital (their ability to remove the title is right there in the fine print of the EULAs for these things).
It's going to be increasingly difficult to find physical media in "good, working condition" and to find a "working player."

Sure, the studios can't "take away your access to it like they technically can with digital" -- I agree! -- but father time can. And as fewer and fewer unique titles get released on contemporary physical media, the hegemony of what you can watch on physical formats increases.

---

But I think we're losing the narrative thread here. My whole point is that I agree with Bill Hunt that physical is dying. The evidence is all around us. Yet by the same token I am a huge fan of physical, especially when it's done right. I just bought into 4k a year ago. I'm a home video buff. I buy physical for all the same reasons everybody else here has already articulated.

What's so maddening these days is that physical releases are frequently done wrong. Flimsy packaging that can be easily damaged. Poor cover and disc art. No liner notes and/or inserts at all. Bare bones releases with no "added value content" -- just some EPK stuff at the most. They're literally bragging on back covers now about having "30 minutes of bonus footage!" Whoopie The worst is the revisionist history, as when they don't include the original audio mix or the film is DNR'd to death. The list goes on and on.

When releases so frequently get reduced to the lowest common denominator, it's further evidence that home media is dying. It gives consumers no compelling reason to buy physical, no reason to create new fans of physical.

My bottom line is that it's okay to say I'm a fan of physical home video while also acknowledging that thing I'm a fan of is dying, and people like me are aging and dying off. I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts, but those opportunities for enjoyment are too few and far between these days, especially in contrast to the days of yore. <-- In fact, isn't this all the proof you need that physical is dying?
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Old 01-24-2019, 05:26 PM   #539
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Originally Posted by davcole View Post
I think eventually disc will go away but I need streaming to have the same audio/video quality as disc!

One can download 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs with lossless audio with a subscription, requires expensive hard drive server.


With 10GB per second and 1GB per second residential Internet being offered across the country, some day in the future 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray streaming services might be offered. It would be ideal if VUDU and Netflix were to improve their picture and sound quality to match 4K Blu-rays.


However if most consumers are happy with low bit rate 4K and lossy audio from Netflix and VUDU, then streaming providers might never upgrade to lossless audio. On the other hand with competition some streaming providers for a higher subscription price would pay for lossless audio. And maybe 5 to 10 years from now Netflix or VUDU might offer lossless audio quality.
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Old 01-24-2019, 05:44 PM   #540
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Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
One can download 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs with lossless audio with a subscription, requires expensive hard drive server.


With 10GB per second and 1GB per second residential Internet being offered across the country, some day in the future 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray streaming services might be offered. It would be ideal if VUDU and Netflix were to improve their picture and sound quality to match 4K Blu-rays.


However if most consumers are happy with low bit rate 4K and lossy audio from Netflix and VUDU, then streaming providers might never upgrade to lossless audio. On the other hand with competition some streaming providers for a higher subscription price would pay for lossless audio. And maybe 5 to 10 years from now Netflix or VUDU might offer lossless audio quality.
Are you suggesting in the AtSC 3.0 thread that people will abandon their 4K TVs in their living room to watch stuff on their 5G phones or have I got my wires crossed? Just to clarify.
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