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Old 03-21-2019, 08:48 AM   #41
x7q3 x7q3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain View Post
If itís a $5/month subscription fee, I *might* consider it. Otherwise, I will only EVER invest in physical media gaming.
I agree.

I wouldn't want to pay a monthly subscription to play video games. Netflix is the same way, and you get all kinds of movies you'll never watch with Netflix.

I just want the game I want (cartridge, disc, etc), and play it forever whenever I want. You own the disc, but you don't own anything on a service like Netflix and movies on Netflix expire after a while. Everything on Netflix is temporarily there and you own nothing on it.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:49 AM   #42
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And that's why it will fail. No casual has a clue about that. Kids live off the internet their parents pay for. I can't imagine little Timmy begging his dad to pay the extra just so he can stream his games better lol

People who took part in the beta seemed to hate the lag they experienced. Some people just don't have the option of an ISP that can even offer them the bandwidth they would need for a service like this.

We will need to be in 6G wireless internet era before anything like this will work flawlessly. I'll be too old to care about it by then anyway
That is the arguably the biggest hurdle Google will not outright say to the public.

To give you an idea of what a musician in the US pays for recording via ISP. This is around 3 year old pricing btw so I donít know if the price is actually lower or higher now.

First they pay for speed which btw is the cheapest. Around $50/month + Unlimited Data which could bump that price up a bit more.
Then bandwidth is separated. From a few musicians Iíve spoken to, they spend around $2-300 extra per month for increased bandwidth. Depends on some factors like multiple instrument recordings in one household or single musicians that record say vocals only or guitar only.

Anyway back to his Google thang,

Input lag via WiFi should be as good as an Xbox One Controller connected to an Xbox One. Iím not as concerned here as most because this has probably been the most researched aspect of streaming gaming period. So in my mind, it can only improve, not worsen.

The main elephant in the room is physical ownership. People donít own Netflix but they consistently give them around $10/month. People donít own the free games given by Sony to PS Plus subscribers either. XBL as example + Nintendo too. So right now we have digital sense of ownership but Google is asking us to throw that sense right out the window in favour of Convenience over Ownership. Itís a tough sale. No doubt. Itís also obvious this service isnít for the masses with only 4 countries supported this year. It is (at least in my mind) a step forward for innovation in gaming regardless of the hurdles it will have to jump through. On the bright side, I think only Google & maybe MS could pull this off with semi-success meaning it wonít be mainstream at launch.

I still look forward to PS5. I do strongly believe that will be the last traditional console. I could be wrong & hope I am wrong come 2025/2027
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:14 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derb View Post
That is the arguably the biggest hurdle Google will not outright say to the public.

To give you an idea of what a musician in the US pays for recording via ISP. This is around 3 year old pricing btw so I donít know if the price is actually lower or higher now.

First they pay for speed which btw is the cheapest. Around $50/month + Unlimited Data which could bump that price up a bit more.
Then bandwidth is separated. From a few musicians Iíve spoken to, they spend around $2-300 extra per month for increased bandwidth. Depends on some factors like multiple instrument recordings in one household or single musicians that record say vocals only or guitar only.

Anyway back to his Google thang,

Input lag via WiFi should be as good as an Xbox One Controller connected to an Xbox One. Iím not as concerned here as most because this has probably been the most researched aspect of streaming gaming period. So in my mind, it can only improve, not worsen.

The main elephant in the room is physical ownership. People donít own Netflix but they consistently give them around $10/month. People donít own the free games given by Sony to PS Plus subscribers either. XBL as example + Nintendo too. So right now we have digital sense of ownership but Google is asking us to throw that sense right out the window in favour of Convenience over Ownership. Itís a tough sale. No doubt. Itís also obvious this service isnít for the masses with only 4 countries supported this year. It is (at least in my mind) a step forward for innovation in gaming regardless of the hurdles it will have to jump through. On the bright side, I think only Google & maybe MS could pull this off with semi-success meaning it wonít be mainstream at launch.

I still look forward to PS5. I do strongly believe that will be the last traditional console. I could be wrong & hope I am wrong come 2025/2027
I can't even see options here to get a higher bandwidth from any ISP at least not commercially. You probably have to go for business use which again I don't know anyone who has a business use service in their home. It would be expensive as well though like you pointed out.

The input lag issue is a different beast on streaming vs console/PC. The only input lag you get is between your button press and the console and the TV displaying it.

With streaming you have to take in to account the time that press takes to go down the internets to their server and back to your display. You also have the issue of packet loss and jitter.

So far all I can go on is what they showed us on stage and even in that controlled environment the vissable input lag was embarrassing considering it was a closed demo. In the gif example he has to press the button multiple times before he actually jumps on screen which is pretty bad.

Ownership is a whole different beast. I think the more us oldies kick the bucket the more people simply won't care about ownership. It's a dying concept really, younger generations are growing up on streaming everything so haven't known any better. We like to own things and prices keep going up and up for the privilege. Eventually people will get fed up of paying £25 for a film when they can pay £9.99 for unlimited films per month.

But one thing Google should learn from Netflix if they really want this to take off is they need to start producing their own must have content. There are no end of excellent shows and films Netflix have created which brings in new customers.

If Google are only offering a limited 3rd party content then there's no reason for someone to adopt it. Once they start getting some big exclusives they will see people start to take more notice. Even I would try it if it was for a massive exclusive that I couldn't play anywhere else.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:39 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post

I think their tease display prior to the reveal was perfect though, they're already throwing it in with some of the biggest failures in gaming history.

[Show spoiler]
is this real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post
Do Google honestly believe people are going to give up their consoles and PC for this? Does any consumer actually want to have this over a console or PC?
%100

I've seen a lot of people who have *changed their tone when it comes to playing video games, now that they can play Pubg on their phone

not exactly changed their tone to gaming in general, but more like gave the game an 'exception' because it's on their phone, so the same can be applied to Doom Eternal, and games that they wouldn't have touched because they're "not into video games"

Last edited by Talal86; 03-21-2019 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:10 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talal86 View Post
is this real?



%100

I've seen a lot of people who have *changed their tone when it comes to playing video games, now that they can play Pubg on their phone

not exactly changed their tone to gaming in general, but more like gave the game an 'exception' because it's on their phone, so the same can be applied to Doom Eternal, and games that they wouldn't have touched because they're "not into video games"
I believe it is, the other stand they had on display was an empty display case with a pedestal as if to show off new hardware, obviously it was empty because there isn't any, I guess that was their point lol

But yeah I can see people using this, but I can't see it converting console or PC gamers in any significant way at least not the way Google see it as being the console killer. It's just not going to happen.
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:19 PM   #46
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Speaking of lag, here's an interesting article I just saw on gizmodo

They say as of 2017 only 1 in 5 households in America could get 25Mbps downloads which is the exact speeds Google claims are needed to experience 4K60p so only 1 in 5 households were going to be able to take advantage of what Google has to offer.

https://gizmodo.com/how-will-google-...otaku_Facebook

Also another good point

Quote:
And then there’s the multiplayer problem. Games like Apex Legends or Fortnite, or even Rocket League are super popular but already frequently victim to less than stellar internet. A blip in a person’s internet is currently the difference between life or death at the hands of a 13-year-old across the country. Google needs 25 Mbps just to let you play a single player game like Assassin’s Creed Odyssey. The additional data required for a multiplayer game could easily saturate less robust internet connections

And what happens if those internet connections are saturated and a person has less than 25 Mbps speeds? “If you have less bandwidth, we’ll give you a lower resolution,” Google Stadia’s Phil Harrison told our sister site Kotaku. For four out of five American households, Stadia is hamstrung from the start.
.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:58 PM   #47
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One of my favorite things about gaming is building my own PC. Plus, I'm not particularly a fan of any game that requires you to be "always online" so I can't imagine an entire gaming "system" that requires it. Hard pass on whatever this is supposed to be.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:04 PM   #48
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If this is a streaming only box I have less than 0 interest in getting it.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:13 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post
Speaking of lag, here's an interesting article I just saw on gizmodo

They say as of 2017 only 1 in 5 households in America could get 25Mbps downloads which is the exact speeds Google claims are needed to experience 4K60p so only 1 in 5 households were going to be able to take advantage of what Google has to offer.

https://gizmodo.com/how-will-google-...otaku_Facebook

Also another good point
Do more than 1 in 5 households even have a gaming a system?
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:54 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrveggieman View Post
If this is a streaming only box I have less than 0 interest in getting it.
Itís not a box, itís a service
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:57 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talal86 View Post
It’s not a box, it’s a service
It's not, but I'd wager that most gamers would want to play this on a TV, which you're either going to need a Chromecast or at least a TV with it built in. So while technically it's not a box, cheap as they are I'll bet many will still have to buy a Chromecast to play the service on their TV's.
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:11 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talal86 View Post
Itís not a box, itís a service
So thereís no box? Iím out
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:08 PM   #53
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So thereís no box? Iím out
Well, there is Chromecast, so I guess if you want a "box" that would be it. The controller too, but you don't even need to buy that to play since it works with other controllers.
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:46 PM   #54
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Quote:
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Well, there is Chromecast, so I guess if you want a "box" that would be it. The controller too, but you don't even need to buy that to play since it works with other controllers.
I’m kinda curious about that part regarding features.

Their Controller has buttons for Google assistance, screen/video sharing. I wonder if these can just be remapped to say the DS4 to replace “Options” & “Share” buttons for example.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:37 PM   #55
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Quote:
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Iím kinda curious about that part regarding features.

Their Controller has buttons for Google assistance, screen/video sharing. I wonder if these can just be remapped to say the DS4 to replace ďOptionsĒ & ďShareĒ buttons for example.
That would be my guess too. Surprised they even went with those as buttons though to be honest, what with the whole "hey Google" voice commands being such an I'm thing these days.
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Old 03-22-2019, 06:23 PM   #56
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It's funny that no one has mentioned anything about Data Caps yet. I've read some people claiming they almost go over their data cap every month with just from browsing the internet and watching Netflix. What do you think streaming a video game is going to do? These cable companies are going to be like sharks in a feeding frenzy. By the time you get done paying the subscription fee for this stupid ass "service" and the bill for going over your data cap, or just upgrading for more data, it'd probably just be cheaper to have played on a PC or console inthe first place. When you boil it down, there's really nothing here that's actually benefiting the consumer.
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Old 03-22-2019, 06:30 PM   #57
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It's funny that no one has mentioned anything about Data Caps yet. I've read some people claiming they almost go over their data cap every month with just from browsing the internet and watching Netflix. What do you think streaming a video game is going to do? These cable companies are going to be like sharks in a feeding frenzy. By the time you get done paying the subscription fee for this stupid ass "service" and the bill for going over your data cap, or just upgrading for more data, it'd probably just be cheaper to have played on a PC or console inthe first place. When you boil it down, there's really nothing here that's actually benefiting the consumer.
Me? It's going to cost you 7-10gb per hour at 4K60p.

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Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post
It'll be a joke to anyone that isn't actually in to gaming simply due to the horrendous input lag that was clearly visible in their stage demo. If they can't even get the stage demo to work without input lag than what hope does someone have that lives a thousand miles away from the nearest server and has a normal fiber connection? How many seconds was it between him hitting the jump button and it actually happening on screen lol https://twitter.com/i/status/1108071616636993536 Input lag should be single figure ms at the most, this is almost literally SECOND(S) which is just unbearable.

Also you will be looking at about 7-10gb of data transfer per hour @ 4K60p so you hopefully have unlimited data from your ISP, and don't forget the whole net nutrality thing being killed off in what will arguably be Googles biggest potential market. So your ISP could charge you a nice premium for hogging all that data for your game streaming.

Basically you have to have the perfect internet connection and unlimited data cap as well as live as close as possible to the nearest data center and even then you will still get input lag.

It won't be of any use to the MLG community who will always prioritise PC/Console as long as they exist because streaming just cannot offer response times needed for any sort of competitive gaming. Imagine trying to play Street Fighter where you literally have to count frames to be able to judge your next move. It will just be a total mess trying to play it on this thing.

There's a reason why OnLive and Gaikai failed miserably. Sony swallowed up Gaikai and turned them on to PS Now, and look how many people hate that, it's not really any different to what Google are offering. Game streaming just doesn't work with the current state of the Internets infrastructure.

Until input lag can be completely eliminated there's not much point in using a streaming service for games aside from the novelty of it, which would probably ware off pretty fast.

Until they can show that they can create AAA exclusive content that is a must play title then it's pretty much a pointless service when current consoles/PCs offer a much more impressive library of games.

I think their tease display prior to the reveal was perfect though, they're already throwing it in with some of the biggest failures in gaming history.

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Old 03-22-2019, 06:56 PM   #58
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Me? It's going to cost you 7-10gb per hour at 4K60p.
10gb per hour?! Omg that's horrible especially considering how often people play their games. If the average player plays 10-20 hours per week than you're going to burn through your data plan like fire with old news paper.
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:26 PM   #59
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I could see Google using this as a way to promote their intended internet service too.

“Google Fibre customers can play Google Stadia without usage applying to monthly data caps.”

A.K.A. “Give us all of your damn monies peasants!!!”
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:20 PM   #60
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720p all round it is!
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