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Old 03-08-2012, 01:01 PM   #281
Intamin Intamin is offline
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Given the size of that room C1's would be overkill for surrounds. Especially when the cheapest they go for is around $4,000 used. What are your dimensions in that room? I'm trying to figure out whether I have room for Sapphires/C2s or I go a projector route with C1's. My new house layout is a bit messed up. I'm going to have to wall mount surrounds and give up my x12's at some point as they won't work for placement.
My room is ~ 17 x 17 x 8 with another 6 feet of width that's an entry area. My speakers sit ~4.6 feet off the right side wall, and a little over 5 feet off the back wall. The speakers are 8 feet apart, and I have the front of my couch at 8ft back, but I my head is probably about 9 feet away. I think C1s would be overkill for surrounds in general, especially since I don't do any multi channel music listening. Would be fun to have though!
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:36 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intamin View Post
My room is ~ 17 x 17 x 8 with another 6 feet of width that's an entry area. My speakers sit ~4.6 feet off the right side wall, and a little over 5 feet off the back wall. The speakers are 8 feet apart, and I have the front of my couch at 8ft back, but I my head is probably about 9 feet away. I think C1s would be overkill for surrounds in general, especially since I don't do any multi channel music listening. Would be fun to have though!
Well your room is bigger than I thought it was. C1's deserve better than surround sound duty in most rooms. Unless money was no issue. They'd be nice for surrounds in a theater room with Evidence/Confidence speakers.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:05 PM   #283
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While I agree that C1's would be overkill as surrounds but when building a system of the quality that Alex is overkill is kind of the point is it not? I would save them to be the last piece of the puzzle but if you could swing it I say go for it!
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:09 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by aces high View Post
While I agree that C1's would be overkill as surrounds but when building a system of the quality that Alex is overkill is kind of the point is it not? I would save them to be the last piece of the puzzle but if you could swing it I say go for it!
My overkill system would cost me between $150-225K depending on electronics and room decor. Just the B&W CT800 series speakers would be 85% of that budget.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:58 PM   #285
SeanMF SeanMF is offline
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Originally Posted by aces high View Post
While I agree that C1's would be overkill as surrounds but when building a system of the quality that Alex is overkill is kind of the point is it not? I would save them to be the last piece of the puzzle but if you could swing it I say go for it!
I would disagree. He getting quality equipment/front sound stage. When you are dealing with surrounds that is a whole different ordeal. C1's are considered one of the best bookshelf speakers out there that rivals many floorstanding speakers. So unless you are in some big theater room then C1's would be overkill for his setup as surrounds. Yes he could do that if he wanted but would he notice the difference between contour/focus models especially given the cost difference? Doubtful. Ultimately that is Alex's decision. I've done overkill myself. So I don't have room to talk there. I didn't buy my car I'd have had C2's and Confidence center now. I had them lined up in maple and even had quotes to have them re-finished in gloss white. Seeing you guys buy Dyns like the C1s and C2s after not having a decent setup for a few months now really has me wanting to be moved and something in place. Damn patience isn't my strong suit. Congrats on that amp Alex.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:17 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanMF View Post
I would disagree. He getting quality equipment/front sound stage. When you are dealing with surrounds that is a whole different ordeal. C1's are considered one of the best bookshelf speakers out there that rivals many floorstanding speakers. So unless you are in some big theater room then C1's would be overkill for his setup as surrounds. Yes he could do that if he wanted but would he notice the difference between contour/focus models especially given the cost difference? Doubtful. Ultimately that is Alex's decision. I've done overkill myself. So I don't have room to talk there. I didn't buy my car I'd have had C2's and Confidence center now. I had them lined up in maple and even had quotes to have them re-finished in gloss white. Seeing you guys buy Dyns like the C1s and C2s after not having a decent setup for a few months now really has me wanting to be moved and something in place. Damn patience isn't my strong suit. Congrats on that amp Alex.
Again I agree that it's overkill but again that seems to be what we're all going for anyway.

I've been losing the battle with myself whether the last remaining speakers for my HT are really worth the $4k asking price, probably not but it'll bug me to have gone to such an effort only to cheap out on the last remaining speakers as surrounds. I also go overboard with wanting things to match so it's probably just me.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:58 PM   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanMF View Post
Congrats on that amp Alex.
Thanks Sean

Quote:
Originally Posted by aces high View Post
Again I agree that it's overkill but again that seems to be what we're all going for anyway.
I agree with both you and Sean...it'd probably be overkill, but so is everything else we've purchased, relatively speaking. I think I'll eventually get to a full Confidence system since I only have a few items left to buy for my 2 channel. I don't see myself upgrading speakers again any time soon, if ever again, and even if I were to, I'd still keep the HT setup.


Quote:
I've been losing the battle with myself whether the last remaining speakers for my HT are really worth the $4k asking price, probably not but it'll bug me to have gone to such an effort only to cheap out on the last remaining speakers as surrounds. I also go overboard with wanting things to match so it's probably just me.
I think we're very similar in this regard, which was one of my hesitations in buying the Pass amp; it won't match everything else, and I don't know if I want the matching preamp, or go with something that I can get in black. Fortunately, I've got time to make that decision. A side note, but I really need to go to my local Comcast customer center and swap out the silver cable box with a black one. That silver one is bugging the crap out of me just for looks reasons. I can handle have a silver amp offsetting all of the black, but that box is just out of place.
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Old 03-11-2012, 01:50 AM   #288
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My amp stand came today, and the amp will be here Monday. Can't wait!
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Old 03-11-2012, 01:56 AM   #289
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My amp stand came today, and the amp will be here Monday. Can't wait!
Congreats on the new gear and stnad Alex
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:58 PM   #290
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Well, I'm extremely bummed right now. I had the amp in my possession for all of 2 hours before in went back to the manufacturer. Plugged it in and immediately had a loud hum. Upon closer inspection, I was actually picking up a local AM radio station. I called up Pass Labs, spoke to Nelson Pass, and he said he's never experienced that with one of his amps. He gave me a few suggestions to try, and then said to send it in if it didn't work. Sure enough, it didn't work, but here's all that I tried:

I experienced these issues before feeding the amp any live signal I might add. I tried having the amp be the only thing connected to a power source; I tried the amp connected to a power conditioner; I tried the amp connected to a different electrical circuit; I tried the amp connected with various line level cables; I tried the amp connected via line level cables to different sources with a line out. In all instances, the only thing plugged into a power receptacle was the amplifier. In all instances, I could hear a local AM radio station, with a louder hiss coming from the right channel than the left. I also have two other amplifiers in my house that I've had connected to the same system, both of which haven't displayed the issue I'm describing.

Finally, all of my cables are shielded. Typical turn around is about 10 days on the amp, but Nelson said he was going to be out on vacation this week, or next, I don't recall which. Hopefully it's this week, since the thing has to make it all the way out to California. Regardless, I'm looking at probably three more weeks until I get the unit. Very bummed, but I hope it all gets worked out.

Here's a picture of it after I gave up and was getting ready to box it back up:
That really really really sucks Alex.

So hopefully when you get the new unit it does not do the same thing again, that's odd
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:49 AM   #291
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Sorry to hear about the bad luck you've been having with the new amp Alex, that sucks.

At least you've still got an amp to use in the mean time.
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:56 AM   #292
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Sorry to hear about the bad luck you've been having with the new amp Alex, that sucks.

At least you've still got an amp to use in the mean time.
Yep, fortunately. However, my room is in disarray at the moment as I didn't feel like connecting everything again after literally unplugging everything, including intereconnects from things that weren't even plugged into the wall. I feel like saving that fun for another day.

I will say, the amp did look awesome; just wish it sounded as good as it looked. Oh, and while I knew it would be heavy, it felt far heavier than the subwoofers. The fedex box checked in at 110 lbs !
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:38 PM   #293
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Pulled up the owners manual again because I thought I had seen it mentioned before, but found this:

The amplifier is not sensitive to source interconnects or ground loops.
It is also not sensitive to radio frequency pickup, which allows some
flexibility in choosing source interconnects without shields, though
shields are always in good taste.

I don't feel as bad about sending it back now to be checked out since it definitely appears to be amp related.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:52 AM   #294
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Finally got the amp back today after they replaced a faulty part and it works perfectly! Here are two new photos:





Initial impressions are that it's much quieter, and everything is clearer, but I've only listened to a few songs on low volume. I plan on living with it for at least a month to determine if I'll keep it or not. BTW, pictures do not do justice to how physically massive the amp is.
I am happy for you Alex, It always disapointing to get a defctive unit, I too had an issue with the AVR400 i purchased but since i brought it back within 10 days I just got a replacement with another unit, the left surround was not working. I can say that my current receiver has been working flawlessly since my last firmware upgrade and now that I bi-Amp and run 3 runs of Totem tress it's been great. My weakest link now in the system is that Digital coax cable that goes from the cd player to the DAC. I am working on it, I will get a Nordost Blue Heaven BNC with rca adaptors to use with my rDAC.


Man I wish I could hear your setup, for me I think it's one of the most musical speaker out there, defenately a winner. So tell me about your amp later when you have better assesment and hopefully this one will be a keeper.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:59 AM   #295
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Man that is a beautiful amp. Congrats
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:11 PM   #296
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Man that is a beautiful amp. Congrats
Thanks! It really is awesome looking in person

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl87 View Post
I am happy for you Alex, It always disapointing to get a defctive unit, I too had an issue with the AVR400 i purchased but since i brought it back within 10 days I just got a replacement with another unit, the left surround was not working. I can say that my current receiver has been working flawlessly since my last firmware upgrade and now that I bi-Amp and run 3 runs of Totem tress it's been great. My weakest link now in the system is that Digital coax cable that goes from the cd player to the DAC. I am working on it, I will get a Nordost Blue Heaven BNC with rca adaptors to use with my rDAC.
Thanks Olivier! Glad your unit is working fine now too. It's a pain and a let down when that stuff happens. Fortunately, Pass was great to work with. That should be a nice cable. Theoretically speaking, make sure you buy at least a 1.5m cable. I can't remember the rationale behind it, but I remember Amir discussing the science behind those cables and why using at least 1.5m is desirable.


Quote:
Man I wish I could hear your setup, for me I think it's one of the most musical speaker out there, defenately a winner. So tell me about your amp later when you have better assesment and hopefully this one will be a keeper.
I spent about 2 hours with it last night, and my initial impressions hold. It's extremely quiet and everything is clearer. Last night was the first time I've experienced all of the audiophile go to words when describing sound...the bass was more defined, the sound has that 3d feel to it, the vocals sound a little more forward which I enjoy, because there were times they sounded recessed with the other amp, and I feel there is a lot more separation between instruments or vocals. I'm going to try to compare the other amp to it this weekend and make sure I'm not hearing things though, but all in all, it was a cool experience last night to hear what I was hearing. I can say after last night, it's going to make my decision on whether or not to keep this amp a lot harder.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:48 AM   #297
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Night two with the amp, and I got to do some AB comparisons. My initial thoughts, while I still find true, aren't as pronounced as I originally thought. My preference is the Pass; it has a fuller, more musical and clearer sound than the audio refinement. That said, is it 8x better? That's a matter of preference I suppose. My guess is that if I had the two on a switch where I could do instant switching, I'd fail identifying which is which. I imagine my mind is biasing my results some to like the cooler looking, more expensive Pass, but I do feel I can pick up the differences if I know which one I'm listening to. If only I had won the mega millions, the decision on whether or not to keep the amp would be a lot easier

Oh, and if anyone wants some great audio quality, different style, and good music, I highly recommend Puscifer's Conditions of my Parole. I've been using it a lot these past two days. It's a great album, and has lots of good things to test for listening purposes. "Telling Ghosts" and "Man Overboard" are my two favorites. Lots going on, good low level detail, bass slam, locational sounds, male and female vocals...pretty much has it all.

Last edited by Intamin; 04-12-2012 at 12:52 AM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:25 AM   #298
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Alex thanks for the heads up on the digital coax cable /BNC, I will look into getting 1.5m in this case.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:01 AM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intamin View Post
Night two with the amp, and I got to do some AB comparisons. My initial thoughts, while I still find true, aren't as pronounced as I originally thought. My preference is the Pass; it has a fuller, more musical and clearer sound than the audio refinement. That said, is it 8x better? That's a matter of preference I suppose. My guess is that if I had the two on a switch where I could do instant switching, I'd fail identifying which is which. I imagine my mind is biasing my results some to like the cooler looking, more expensive Pass, but I do feel I can pick up the differences if I know which one I'm listening to. If only I had won the mega millions, the decision on whether or not to keep the amp would be a lot easier

Oh, and if anyone wants some great audio quality, different style, and good music, I highly recommend Puscifer's Conditions of my Parole. I've been using it a lot these past two days. It's a great album, and has lots of good things to test for listening purposes. "Telling Ghosts" and "Man Overboard" are my two favorites. Lots going on, good low level detail, bass slam, locational sounds, male and female vocals...pretty much has it all.
what kind of music is puscifer?
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:34 PM   #300
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what kind of music is puscifer?
It's the solo project of Maynard James Keenan, the front man of A Perfect Circle and Tool. You can tell it has influences of both, with more of an APC sound than tool, but still very much his own.
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