Ask questions to BD authoring and compression insider "2themax"

[iceman]

This thread is dedicated to asking questions of industry insider "2themax" (BD authoring and compression insider) who has graciously taken the time to participate here. 2themax and all our insiders do this out of their free time and to try to keep us informed to their best abilities, and therefore are to be treated with respect and courtesy.

Before asking a question, please skim at least the last weeks worth of posts in order to make sure that the question hasn't already been asked or answered. Using the search function is also always a good idea. Please conduct your inquiries in a professional manner and avoid asking "chicken little" questions or asking when unannounced titles will come out.

2themax - BD authoring and compression insider - Track posts

[2themax]

A little background on me before the questioning starts. I work for a mid-sized authoring house doing both authoring and compression development for BD (and HD in the past). My main focus is BD-J and all that's involved with it. For those who don't know, that's a long list.

I am going to keep the name of the company I work for confidential so that I can speak more freely. In the future, I MAY (stress MAY) post about specific releases I've worked on looking for feedback. I have to check on the legals before doing so.

[Icemage]

Let me be the first to welcome you here to the Blu-ray.com forums, 2themax!

[shueardm]

Yes g'day from OZ, mate do I need help.

How do I get Scenarist HD without 1) robbing a bank or 2) stealing it like many others do.

Seriously now,

There is a really bad lack of professional products for authoring and encoding for Blu-ray (that don't cost the world), I have DVDit PRO HD & Encore CS3, both PUSS for anything but basic.

What is worse is the encoding options for AVC, well there's Cinevision 35K and there's??? Note that I need the encoding to be bluray compliant and also import correctly into Encore CS3.
I've been using MainConcept Reference AVCPRO demo and it's very buggy, I've had some success but some failure too, especially with 23.976 fps footage from XDCAM-EX files.

I can live with Encore for the time being, till something better comes along but i need a great encoding solution for AVC, do you have any suggestions?

Thanks

[JasonR]

Thanks for joining us!!!!

[Mr_Bester]

Thanks for joining up.

I have several 1280x1080 HD ty files(.ts). Can you think of any software that will do a decent job going to 1440x1080 or 1920x1080 so I can finally see some Pulp Fiction in HD? I have tried Speededit, Premeire CS2 and AE CS2. Both Adobe choke on it, and speededit is more for editing(obviously). We will soon be upgrading to CS3, but if you have a better direction for roughly the same $$ that would be great. (disclaimer, We=work owns the software and HD ty=personal I recorded on D* HDTivo and want to watch through the PS3 since my HDTivo died)

Thanks

[2themax]

Originally Posted by shueardm

Yes g'day from OZ, mate do I need help.

How do I get Scenarist HD without 1) robbing a bank or 2) stealing it like many others do.

Seriously now,

There is a really bad lack of professional products for authoring and encoding for Blu-ray (that don't cost the world), I have DVDit PRO HD & Encore CS3, both PUSS for anything but basic.

What is worse is the encoding options for AVC, well there's Cinevision 35K and there's??? Note that I need the encoding to be bluray compliant and also import correctly into Encore CS3.
I've been using MainConcept Reference AVCPRO demo and it's very buggy, I've had some success but some failure too, especially with 23.976 fps footage from XDCAM-EX files.

I can live with Encore for the time being, till something better comes along but i need a great encoding solution for AVC, do you have any suggestions?

Thanks

That seems to be a common problem all around right now. Very few tools are available for Blu-ray, both authoring and encoding. I see you have Encore CS3. Have you tried Premiere Pro CS3 for encoding? I tested it, the MainConcept Reference Encoder, and Sony Vegas 8 for encoding and found Premiere to be the best quality.

If you move to professional level, which it sounds like you do not want to do, you're looking at CineVision, Cinema Craft, Sony, and Panasonic for AVC encoding. We currently have CineVision and it's not all that great. The AVC portion is probably the best of the three though. It also does VC-1 and MPEG2. I've heard that you can buy just one codec for about $15,000. If you move up to the Cinema Craft or Sony, you'll be spending $75,000-$100,000. And last I heard, you couldn't even buy the Panasonic encoder.

For reference, all our work is done using CineVision PSE, formally Microsoft PEP.

[shueardm]

Originally Posted by 2themax

Have you tried Premiere Pro CS3 for encoding? I tested it, the MainConcept Reference Encoder, and Sony Vegas 8 for encoding and found Premiere to be the best quality.

.

That doesn't make sense to me because both Premiere and Vegas both use a MainConcept licensed AVC encoder and i would have thought they would be a "lesser" quality. I do have Premiere PRO CS3/Encore & Vegas 8. I can just let Encore do the encoding but I wanted the best encoding. I can't say i have actually given the Adobe encoder a fair go just out of "status".

[Kosmokrator]

Hi there,

I'm fairly new to the whole topic, so sorry if this question is offtopic here.
I wanna ask what BR authoring solutions (preferrably on Mac) are capable of creating multi-angle shots with an unique audio track assigned to that camera angle. If it's possible, with 5.1 tracks too.
And is the switching 'seamingless' to the user? I imagine it's not possible to switch with frame-accurancy, but maybe little fades?
Please enlighten me

S.

[Icemage]

2themax:

Here's another interesting question. We have "Superbit" DVDs today which are basically billed as less-compressed (and supposedly higher quality) PQ compared to their previously released versions.

Do you think we'll see a day when we get similar treatment for Blu-rays, particularly for short film content? In some cases it should be mathematically possible to use 40Mbps continuous video bit rate on a movie and still not hit the storage limit on a 25 or 50GB disc, right? (assuming here that you don't fill up the space with extras).

Is there a practical benefit to using a continuous bitrate as compared to variable bitrate in this context? Does it simplify the encoding process to have no "bit budget"?

[2themax]

Originally Posted by Icemage

2themax:

Here's another interesting question. We have "Superbit" DVDs today which are basically billed as less-compressed (and supposedly higher quality) PQ compared to their previously released versions.

Do you think we'll see a day when we get similar treatment for Blu-rays, particularly for short film content? In some cases it should be mathematically possible to use 40Mbps continuous video bit rate on a movie and still not hit the storage limit on a 25 or 50GB disc, right? (assuming here that you don't fill up the space with extras).

Is there a practical benefit to using a continuous bitrate as compared to variable bitrate in this context? Does it simplify the encoding process to have no "bit budget"?

We'll definitely see someone market "Superbit" one day. Some of the current releases are "Superbits" as they are. Simpsons comes to mind first.

Having a continuous bit rate may actually lower quality. Besides bit rate, there's buffer fill rate. That can allow for a quick peak above 40Mbps. I've seen my own work hit 49-50Mbps for a very short period.

[owa]

Originally Posted by 2themax

We'll definitely see someone market "Superbit" one day. Some of the current releases are "Superbits" as they are. Simpsons comes to mind first.

Having a continuous bit rate may actually lower quality. Besides bit rate, there's buffer fill rate. That can allow for a quick peak above 40Mbps. I've seen my own work hit 49-50Mbps for a very short period.

Do you know if that (buffer fill rate) is why the PS3 bitrate meter sometimes jumps above 40 (briefly) or is that just an accuracy issue.

[2themax]

Originally Posted by owa

Do you know if that (buffer fill rate) is why the PS3 bitrate meter sometimes jumps above 40 (briefly) or is that just an accuracy issue.

It's a mix of both.

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by 2themax

We'll definitely see someone market "Superbit" one day. Some of the current releases are "Superbits" as they are. Simpsons comes to mind first.

Having a continuous bit rate may actually lower quality. Besides bit rate, there's buffer fill rate. That can allow for a quick peak above 40Mbps. I've seen my own work hit 49-50Mbps for a very short period.

Am I being overly cynical in thinking that some studios might be deliberately restricting the bitrates on current releases with the intention of releasing "Superbit" versions in the future and wanting to ensure that there will be a noticeable PQ improvement when they do?

[CptGreedle]

Hi 2themax!
I have some questions about authoring... afraid to hear what the answer is but I need to know.

I am an animator and am planning to make a series of short animations in both 2D and 3D. I also work mainly on a mac, but i do have access to a pc.
The first thing I want to know is about BD9. Is it possible to create a BD9 disc using DVDs and DVD burning software/hardware? What software do you recommend and is there any on the mac that is sufficient or do I have to resort to the pc?
Is the bitrate of a BD9 the same as a BD25/BD50?
Is the BD-J the same as well?
How long would an average film on a BD9 be?
Do I need to pay licensing rights (or other fees) to release a limited line of BD25 films? How much? And would I have to do the same for BD9?

I am so sorry with all these question... I have been looking all over the internet for info on the BD9 but it is very limited, and it seems that although it is a valid format, it is not used. It's hard for a small-time production studio to release HD content right now isn't it?

Thanks for looking at my post.

[2themax]

Originally Posted by patrick99

Am I being overly cynical in thinking that some studios might be deliberately restricting the bitrates on current releases with the intention of releasing "Superbit" versions in the future and wanting to ensure that there will be a noticeable PQ improvement when they do?

Maybe a bit. Warner has the best chance to do this since the encodes have been ports from the HD-DVD versions and a Blu-ray encode will literally be a "Superbit" in comparison.

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by 2themax

Having a continuous bit rate may actually lower quality. Besides bit rate, there's buffer fill rate. That can allow for a quick peak above 40Mbps. I've seen my own work hit 49-50Mbps for a very short period.

So it's actually possible to budget in some extra bits to cover an action scene without breaking the player hardware?

I've seen the bitrate meter on my PS3 rise above 40Mbps in a few cases (Open Season comes to mind, as does The Prestige) - even accounting for the inaccuracy of the bitrate meter, are these likely examples of what you're talking about?

[2themax]

Originally Posted by Icemage

So it's actually possible to budget in some extra bits to cover an action scene without breaking the player hardware?

Yes, but not in the sense that I think you are asking. If you did it for a an entire scene, you'd run into the same problems are using a constant bit rate. Think of it more along the lines of being used if there was a shot with quick motion or an explosion.

I've seen the bitrate meter on my PS3 rise above 40Mbps in a few cases (Open Season comes to mind, as does The Prestige) - even accounting for the inaccuracy of the bitrate meter, are these likely examples of what you're talking about?

Yes. They should be very short lived though.

[2themax]

Originally Posted by Kosmokrator

Hi there,

I'm fairly new to the whole topic, so sorry if this question is offtopic here.
I wanna ask what BR authoring solutions (preferrably on Mac) are capable of creating multi-angle shots with an unique audio track assigned to that camera angle. If it's possible, with 5.1 tracks too.
And is the switching 'seamingless' to the user? I imagine it's not possible to switch with frame-accurancy, but maybe little fades?
Please enlighten me

S.

Mac, as of today, won't do it. Encore is available for Mac, but it is very basic. Multi-angle is only available with Blu-print and Scenarist, both PC programs. With either, different audio tracks with up to 8 channels can be done. Also, it is seamless if done correctly. Otherwise, there may be a slight pause.

[DjTimothyScott]

why are we still using blue/red, green/red glasses (sorry Red/Green deficient, can't see shades of those colors, not color blind. I saw Journey to the center of the earth at the IMAX in 3-D and they were using polarized Lenses. why don't we get that sort of technology for home dvd/blu-ray discs?

It really pissed me off when i bought it on blu-ray and found out that the 3D tech was old school. now i have to take the movie back and fight to get my money back because it is hard for me to see the 3D because of the tech. I know that i can not be the only one in the world that has this problem.