"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Yes

I would agree that, given a high-enough-quality source for the digital master (a 65mm negative, for example) and adequate projection light output (perhaps from a projector double-stack), a 4K digital "print" should theoretically be neck-and-neck with a good 70mm print, performance-wise.

[sharkshark]

Heh, fair enough...

My funny thing for this evening is that an interview I did this week is all the more relevant given the unprecedented action of the MPAA.

Check out first two questions:

http://twitchfilm.com/interviews/201...r-of-bully.php

And then this:

http://twitchfilm.com/news/2012/04/b...-from-mpaa.php

Amusing...

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

You are but ‘A Diamond in the Mind’ …

Trailer for Duran Duran's A DIAMOND IN THE MIND - YouTube

( ^ watch for it this summer on Blu-ray)

Shark, I think you’re now ready to plunge into this book during a long flight onto your next dive adventure….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...=1#post5998279

[sharkshark]

I have been waiting for this for years... I've had horrendous experience with dying lamps, dialed down intensities in an attempt to keep (expensive) bulbs for longer, especially for 3D. If we can get proper luminance, with pure 6500K white, without needing to replace consumable bulbs, all combined with proper 4k sources, the future of digital cinema will have finally matched its potential.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Received a PM in regards to whether or not 4K digital presentation can equal that of the exhibition of a 70mm print –

Yes, already answered that….last year in fact – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...mm#post5202522

In other words, according to a ‘film lover’ and film historian specializing in technological history who stated...“the results struck me as being equal”.
^ Old news, really.

New News – This month in Vegas expect Sony to show laser projection technology.
Technology marches on!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I would agree that, given a high-enough-quality source for the digital master (a 65mm negative, for example) and adequate projection light output (perhaps from a projector double-stack), a 4K digital "print" should theoretically be neck-and-neck with a good 70mm print, performance-wise.

lol, well that’s mighty big of you Doc, but I do read a lot of *qualifiers* in your comment.

If anyone had a problem with the real-world applicability or practicality of that comparison demo, they could have raised their hands and spoken up. It was open to questions from the audience and as the film historian, Rich Mitchell, implied in the article, John Bailey, ASC can be a rather harsh critic of ‘digital’ (more so, than I think you are) but he was mum, and believe me, he is seldom at a loss for words….even taking on Grover one-on-one with regards to contrast at The Reel Thing in the past.

Anyway, there was nothing really special about the DCP in that split screen side-by-side (not relying on human memory), presentation, likewise nothing special about its exhibition, i.e. one Sony 4K projector was utilized and certainly not double stacked (four) projectors from some other manufacturer as in some special one-off demo like which were used in Jim Cameron’s past presentation months ago promoting the value of 60 fps filmmaking.

Heck, if anything, I’d say that the 70mm film print was of better quality than you would typically see at venues which still do those rare public 70mm presentations for film aficionados.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Anyway, there was nothing really special about the DCP...

Well, I guess you could consider it “special” in the sense that the presenter made darn sure, in the first place, that the DCP was formatted with proper switches to set specific parameters in the ext format so that there would be no incompatibility between the DCP and the media block in the projection booth, avoiding a potentially embarrassing situation of a blank screen when the footage was to be *rolled* for all in attendance.

But I think that this kind of forethought should be a matter of protocol by any conscientious presenter/venue prior to exhibiting anything to a public audience, be it at an industry function like The Reel Thing or just a regular public cinema.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

My funny thing for this evening is that an interview I did this week is all the more relevant given the unprecedented action of the MPAA.

Check out first two questions:

http://twitchfilm.com/interviews/201...r-of-bully.php

And then this:

http://twitchfilm.com/news/2012/04/b...-from-mpaa.php

I had a feeling that there would be a reconsideration of positions. This issue is of far greater importance than not to have had common sense prevail in the end.

[Penton-Man]

Headed out of town to do some camping and ridin.
Have a safe and Happy Easter holiday folks.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

lol, well that’s mighty big of you Doc, but I do read a lot of *qualifiers* in your comment.

If anyone had a problem with the real-world applicability or practicality of that comparison demo, they could have raised their hands and spoken up. It was open to questions from the audience and as the film historian, Rich Mitchell, implied in the article, John Bailey, ASC can be a rather harsh critic of ‘digital’ (more so, than I think you are) but he was mum, and believe me, he is seldom at a loss for words….even taking on Grover one-on-one with regards to contrast at The Reel Thing in the past.

Anyway, there was nothing really special about the DCP in that split screen side-by-side (not relying on human memory), presentation, likewise nothing special about its exhibition, i.e. one Sony 4K projector was utilized and certainly not double stacked (four) projectors from some other manufacturer as in some special one-off demo like which were used in Jim Cameron’s past presentation months ago promoting the value of 60 fps filmmaking.

Heck, if anything, I’d say that the 70mm film print was of better quality than you would typically see at venues which still do those rare public 70mm presentations for film aficionados.

I have talked to a few people about this, too including the late Rich Mitchell and there are areas that need improvement, like black level in completely light controlled rooms for example, but on screens that are not too big a stack certainly would make things worse, not better: Less resolution and higher black level when there is sufficient light with one projector certainly isn't going to help.

Even the Sony home theater 4k solutions at least subjectively rivals 70mm in resolution if not in other parameters - too bad there is not much 4k content for it (hint, hint )

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

Didn't think of it from that angle either and I'm sure the pirates will be able to cover their tracks pretty well. Heck, wasn't "Wolverine" pirated by an employee at the effects house? What are they going to do to stop that?

that too, plus camcorders in the theatres, PVR/DVR..... there are many ways to get an illigal copy and make it public.

[androvsky]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

New News – This month in Vegas expect Sony to show laser projection technology.
Technology marches on!

Sony's late to the party. Think their laser projector will also be 4k?

[Doctorossi]

I don't think I indicated "a lot of qualifiers", Penton. I just said that

1. the digital "print" should, like the film print, be taken from a source of a higher resolution

and

2. the light source needs to be adequate (which, in the case of the comparison you describe, it certainly sounds like it was).

Really, my "qualifiers" were only to say, 'as long as the digital projection doesn't have one hand tied behind its back'.

[androvsky]

Originally Posted by micks_address

Hi Penton,

Probably not your baby - but why are playstation 3 and ps vita games on the playstation store the same price as their physical counterparts that are sold in the shops? Would it not make sense that they would be at least a bit cheaper given that there is no physical media/packaging involved? They also have no resale value which make purchasing them harder to justify.

If we move to a online/download model for movies are we looking at a simillar pricing structure?

Cheers,
Mick

Since Penton-Man's already passed on this one, part of the problem the game industry has is Gamestop holds an enormous amount of power in the U.S. (mainly because games are too expensive, so the industry actually relies on used games more than publishers would like to admit, but that's a different story...) Platform holders like Sony and Microsoft are very reluctant to upset Gamestop by undercutting retail prices with the download versions. That, and the extra profits for the publishers by not having to pay the costs of packaging and shipping are really nice too.

I don't think that particular problem will carry over to retailers, since it's a bit too late for the movie industry to worry about the health of dedicated movie stores. Doesn't mean they won't keep prices high anyway. Hollywood already sells most new releases through download services, what do you think of the pricing on services such as PSN or iTunes so far?

However, most Vita games (all first party, and many third party) games are 10% less than MSRP if you buy the download versions. I think Sony recognizes that online purchases are pretty important to a high-end portable.

[sharkshark]

oh, another link for you, P, when you get back... something about a ship sinking on the big screen

http://twitchfilm.com/reviews/2012/0...-it-anyway.php

[DenonCI]

Shark, nice review. I'll wait for the Blu-ray to come out before watching it again.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

Shark, nice review. I'll wait for the Blu-ray to come out before watching it again.

Thanks sir - frankly, if you have a screen near you, I'd go. It's well worth it on the big screen, even for a shit film. I'm unlikely to watch the film again on Blu just because, save for a commentary and/or extras. But once ever decade and a half, it's fun to watch the bastardo go down...

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Thanks sir - frankly, if you have a screen near you, I'd go. It's well worth it on the big screen, even for a shit film. I'm unlikely to watch the film again on Blu just because, save for a commentary and/or extras. But once ever decade and a half, it's fun to watch the bastardo go down...

Maybe I'll have to turn in my man card, but I actually don't mind the film. I love the set design and the attention to detail that Cameron had for the project and I think the pacing of the film is quite good despite the three hour run time.

As for seeing it in the theater...well, I prefer to watch on my front projection system at home

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

I have talked to a few people about this, too including the late Rich Mitchell and there are areas that need improvement, like black level in completely light controlled rooms for example, but on screens that are not too big a stack certainly would make things worse, not better: Less resolution and higher black level when there is sufficient light with one projector certainly isn't going to help.

Even the Sony home theater 4k solutions at least subjectively rivals 70mm in resolution if not in other parameters - too bad there is not much 4k content for it (hint, hint )

Hi Oliver! Good to see you back in the Club.

What I’d like is for camera-savvy consumers to carry around cameras on the golf course which shoot at 960fps (like the new NEX-FS700) so that I can better visualize and appreciate that little white ball skip across the water and into the hole when your German golfers do those trick shots, like so ….
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/golf-d...032832544.html

Seriously, on topic, I get a lot of those type of ‘native 4K requests’ regularly in my email inbox and I will probably get even more when the major manufacturers start launching flat panel consumer 4K TVs. 4K monitors (and other beyond HD devices) on showroom floors will drive the launch of 4K packaged media. Horse before the carriage, i.e. the displays and devices being the ‘horse’, so to speak. The good thing is that there is already more native 4K feature film digital master material available in the studio library, even as of right now, than there was of 3D feature film material for when 3DBD launched….much more.

Plus, even small independent productions are shooting in 4K….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...nt#post5779065

Anyway, until the arrival of 4KBD, in the meantime, I think an evolutionary step in the ability to view native 4K moving picture at home, would be to offer all early adopters of home 4K displays, be it projectors or flat panels, a reasonably priced converter box which can deliver native 4K via a single HDMI output into their 4K displays, in case these consumers are capable of providing/shooting their own 4K content for home viewing..for example, with 4K camcorder or prosumer 4K cameras….whether their internal codec be H.264 or even ‘lowly’ MPEG-2.

We’ll see if this comes to fruition, as things are in a state of transition….http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...umer-unit.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by androvsky

Sony's late to the party. Think their laser projector will also be 4k?

Hi androvsky.

I can’t comment on specifics related to products which are still in development (nor, for that matter, timelines) but, the availability of that feature shouldn’t be too difficult for people to predict. As to ‘late to the party’, there has always been a Sony person in a leadership role with his hand on the pulse of the laser technology industry….
http://expo.nabshow.com/mynabshow201...ionID=&SEID=23

The biggest challenge isn’t how to make a laser projector but, how to develop one with an affordable and attractive price point for which it will be readily adopted.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I don't think I indicated "a lot of qualifiers", Penton. I just said that....

Really, my "qualifiers" were only to say, 'as long as the digital projection doesn't have one hand tied behind its back'.

Doc, now I understand what you meant. I read all your guys’ postings probably much quicker than I really should. Seems I’ve been much more pressed by time constraints lately. Sorry.
I’ll try to read more carefully.

P.S. Stayed up late Sunday night to watch the Arsenal vs. Man City match which I had recorded.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

P.S. Stayed up late Sunday night to watch the Arsenal vs. Man City match which I had recorded.

Welcome to the other side of the wringer.