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Old 06-16-2022, 07:03 AM   #41
Killer Meteor Killer Meteor is offline
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That wasn't Connery in the early gun barrel scenes which I'd wished he'd done.
I always think Bob Simmons in profile looks more like Oddjob!
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Old 06-16-2022, 12:55 PM   #42
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I'm glad to see so much love for Dr. No in this thread. It has always been among my most favorite and most rewatched Bond films. I simply love the pulpy, breezy atmosphere that the movie is dripping with. And Connery, as many have pointed out, is sheer perfection right out of the gate.
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Old 06-16-2022, 02:47 PM   #43
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I do feel the depiction of Quarrel does feel left over from the 1930s. I'm sure he was a lot less Steppin Fetchitt in the novel.

And the dragon...oh dear, the dragon!
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Old 06-16-2022, 03:16 PM   #44
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I do feel the depiction of Quarrel does feel left over from the 1930s. I'm sure he was a lot less Steppin Fetchitt in the novel.
From what I remember of the book, the movie is pretty spot-on with how he's represented.
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Old 06-16-2022, 04:44 PM   #45
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When court battle did eventually happen Norman had the better lawyers and Barry wasnít in great health. It wasnít really a fair battle. IMO it should have at the least been shared credit. I quite like Normanís DN score because itís so tied into the film and Peter Hunt edited it like crazy to have more punch. (Terence Young bemoaned it as ďmining disaster musicĒ) Outside of having the general basis for the theme and possibly a working track the theme as we know it was made by all of Barryís energy and soul. His slightly later rerecording in stereo with additional flourishes is further evidence of this as are his later rerecordings on some of his compilation albums.
Later he would create the 007 theme as an alternative.

If it had been up to Norman, some others and Harry Saltzman it couldíve been Underneath the Mango Tree over the titles.
Being able to produce a previous composition which bore the same melody as the Bond theme also worked in Norman's favour. Norman himself admitted that it was Barry who made it what it is, though he still bristled at anyone saying that it was Barry who composed it. Barry himself said that Norman only received credit for contractual reasons, which is a bit duplicitous because it was Norman's composition that provided the framework for the piece.

It should also be noted that the court cases did not involve Barry pursuing credit for authorship, they were libel cases which Norman brought against publications saying that Barry composed it and you can't blame him for doing that, not just out of professional pride but because of the lucrative royalties he received for the piece.

As for the Dr. No score, I'm not a huge fan of it myself because if feels too much like a TV show (the scene where Quarrel takes a second swig of his rum sounds like something out of Gilligan's Island), and other times (like when Bond is attacking the spider) it's way too overdramatic. I still wouldn't change it though, because it's such a part of the fabric of the movie.
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Old 06-16-2022, 05:23 PM   #46
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I always think Bob Simmons in profile looks more like Oddjob!
Yes indeed think he stood average height as opposed to connerys 6ft 2 in .
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Old 06-16-2022, 05:45 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCRochester View Post
Being able to produce a previous composition which bore the same melody as the Bond theme also worked in Norman's favour. Norman himself admitted that it was Barry who made it what it is, though he still bristled at anyone saying that it was Barry who composed it. Barry himself said that Norman only received credit for contractual reasons, which is a bit duplicitous because it was Norman's composition that provided the framework for the piece.

It should also be noted that the court cases did not involve Barry pursuing credit for authorship, they were libel cases which Norman brought against publications saying that Barry composed it and you can't blame him for doing that, not just out of professional pride but because of the lucrative royalties he received for the piece.

As for the Dr. No score, I'm not a huge fan of it myself because if feels too much like a TV show (the scene where Quarrel takes a second swig of his rum sounds like something out of Gilligan's Island), and other times (like when Bond is attacking the spider) it's way too overdramatic. I still wouldn't change it though, because it's such a part of the fabric of the movie.
Very true. The royalties are the major deal. It mustíve pained Barry to no end that the theme was always there and he couldnít replace it in the publicís mind. They would have to mark every usage in each film for Normanís continued royalties. This was part of the reason why he was awarded FRWL after Dr. No due to Cubby Broccoli liking his work and feeling he had gotten shafted a bit.

Part of the fabric is exactly what the score is. It fits the slightly rougher quality of the first film before all of the iconography was set in place. It still frustrates me there is no score release and Iíve got my Criterion CAV LD for the isolated M&E track. However once I found mentions of Peter Hunt editing the score like mad to give it more energy itís effectiveness made much more sense. It also requires heavy usage of the JB theme all over which started Huntís reliance on it that drove Barry mad throughout the 60ís. (And why it is last heard in OHMSS)
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Old 06-16-2022, 07:22 PM   #48
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Very true. The royalties are the major deal. It mustíve pained Barry to no end that the theme was always there and he couldnít replace it in the publicís mind. They would have to mark every usage in each film for Normanís continued royalties. This was part of the reason why he was awarded FRWL after Dr. No due to Cubby Broccoli liking his work and feeling he had gotten shafted a bit.
I don't know that it would pain Barry that he couldn't replace it in the public's mind because if he knew that he had authorship of it, he should be proud of his achievement. I mean, it might sting a bit that he wasn't earning anything from it, particularly in the one court case when Monty Norman was asked to provide the figure of how much money he had made from the royalties.

Overall, Barry had about as stellar a career as you can have as a movie score composer and he was the co-author of tons of hit songs (eg. Born Free) so he wasn't hurting for cash or accolades, so I don't think it would bother him as much as it would bother Norman if he were to lose out on that cash cow.

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Part of the fabric is exactly what the score is. It fits the slightly rougher quality of the first film before all of the iconography was set in place. It still frustrates me there is no score release and Iíve got my Criterion CAV LD for the isolated M&E track. However once I found mentions of Peter Hunt editing the score like mad to give it more energy itís effectiveness made much more sense. It also requires heavy usage of the JB theme all over which started Huntís reliance on it that drove Barry mad throughout the 60ís. (And why it is last heard in OHMSS)
Somebody like La La Land Records really needs to step in and do a proper soundtrack album of the score from Dr. No. I remember when I first bought the CD and it was all of these calypso tracks I had never heard before, I was so disappointed. If they can do Fletch Lives, surely they can do this.
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Old 06-16-2022, 07:30 PM   #49
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Silva Screen suite of Dr No themes, played by the City of Prague Philamonic.

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Old 06-16-2022, 07:32 PM   #50
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Oddly, the "Death of Dr. No" turns up in From Russia With Love.
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Old 06-16-2022, 08:42 PM   #51
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'Goldfinger' is better than 'Dr. No.' Both of them are a lot better than 'Diamonds Are Forever.' A judgment reflected in its relatively poor showing at the box office. In which field, of course, 'Thunderball' was a notable success.
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Old 06-16-2022, 09:40 PM   #52
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'Goldfinger' is better than 'Dr. No.' Both of them are a lot better than 'Diamonds Are Forever.' A judgment reflected in its relatively poor showing at the box office. In which field, of course, 'Thunderball' was a notable success.
Diamonds was meant to actually feature Goldfinger's brother as the villain. Which makes me wonder if Charles Gray was cast before the character was rewritten as Blofleld.
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Old 06-16-2022, 09:45 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Killer Meteor View Post
Oddly, the "Death of Dr. No" turns up in From Russia With Love.
John Barry did not have full autonomy over the score until Goldfinger, which is why snippets of Norman's score were used in a couple of scenes in FRWL.

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Diamonds was meant to actually feature Goldfinger's brother as the villain. Which makes me wonder if Charles Gray was cast before the character was rewritten as Blofleld.
Why would it make you wonder that? Gert Frobe was originally intended to play Goldfinger's brother but that was early in the planning stages and the idea was dropped pretty quickly.
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Old 06-16-2022, 10:13 PM   #54
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All this Sean Connery talk has me Jonesing for Connery 4K Bond Films…. Wonder what’s taking so flipping long��
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Old 06-16-2022, 10:34 PM   #55
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The Lowry 4K masters are very over processed garbage if thats what some expect to be used.
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Old 06-16-2022, 11:39 PM   #56
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Why would it make you wonder that? Gert Frobe was originally intended to play Goldfinger's brother but that was early in the planning stages and the idea was dropped pretty quickly.
Probably just because Gray is a really odd choice for Blofeld...he's got hair for a start!
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Old 06-17-2022, 12:14 AM   #57
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Probably just because Gray is a really odd choice for Blofeld...he's got hair for a start!
Oh, well, no, I think you're reading too much into it.

Blofeld wasn't originally meant to be bald anyway, he has hair in From Russia With Love, and it was only by chance he became bald because Donald Pleasence was cast in the role in YOLT. If you actually look closely in some shots in YOLT you can see the white hair of original Blofeld actor Jan Werich poking out over the back of his chair.

But, yeah, Charles Gray was a terrible Blofeld. He comes across as too fey, particularly compared to Telly Savalas who was genuinely threatening in the previous film.
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Old 06-17-2022, 12:24 AM   #58
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The Lowry 4K masters are very over processed garbage if thats what some expect to be used.
Is there no hope for a UHD release that looks decent then?
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Old 06-17-2022, 03:31 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by RCRochester View Post
I don't know that it would pain Barry that he couldn't replace it in the public's mind because if he knew that he had authorship of it, he should be proud of his achievement. I mean, it might sting a bit that he wasn't earning anything from it, particularly in the one court case when Monty Norman was asked to provide the figure of how much money he had made from the royalties.

Somebody like La La Land Records really needs to step in and do a proper soundtrack album of the score from Dr. No. I remember when I first bought the CD and it was all of these calypso tracks I had never heard before, I was so disappointed. If they can do Fletch Lives, surely they can do this.
I think it was more of a sticking point of annoyance that on every film they would have to go through at the end and flag every moment where Norman would get royalty payments.
I think we all did that with our first Dr. No copies. Bond fan: what the heck is this?!?!
It's nuts the Bond scores haven't gotten proper complete treatments still and that neither Dr. No or TSWLM have ever had their film scores released. A bootleg CD came out in the UK a few years ago and seems to have just copied the Criterion LD analog music and effects track.

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John Barry did not have full autonomy over the score until Goldfinger, which is why snippets of Norman's score were used in a couple of scenes in FRWL.
I still wonder why exactly that happened. No one really had specific directions for the score and Barry had a relatively free hand after the trip to Istanbul to get the local musical flavor didn't work and he just did his own thing. There was always collaboration even on Goldfinger where at the score recording Guy Hamilton gave Barry a suggestion, Barry jotted down a note and in about two seconds had tweaked Dawn Raid at Fort Knox. I still am not quite sure what it was but from the story Hamilton was telling I'm wondering if it was the addition of the drum percussion for dramatic highlight.
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Old 06-17-2022, 05:26 AM   #60
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'Goldfinger' is better than 'Dr. No.' Both of them are a lot better than 'Diamonds Are Forever.' A judgment reflected in its relatively poor showing at the box office. In which field, of course, 'Thunderball' was a notable success.
Ursula Andress, the quintessential Bond girl. That's what everyone says. The embodiment of his superiority over us. Beautiful, exotic, highly sexual and totally unavaiable to anyone apart from him. Shite. Let's face it. She can shag one punter from Edinburgh, she'd shag the whole lot of us.
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