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Old 06-21-2021, 09:49 AM   #1
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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Default Pressed(stamped) optical discs and M-Discs recordable discs can last over 1,000 years

Around 99% of all optical discs are commercially produced by pressing (stamping) in a multi-million dollar optical disc factory. Therefore, when one purchases an audio CD, CD-ROM data disc, DVD video disc, DVD-ROM data disc, Blu-ray video disc, Blu-ray music disc, or a very rare BD-ROM data disc, those types of optical discs are professional pressed (stamped) in a factory. In addition, 100% of all Laserdiscs and 100% of all 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs are professionally stamped because Laserdiscs and 4K Blu-ray discs do not have a blank recordable disc options in existence. The big advantage of professionally pressed (stamped) optical discs is that if they are manufactured correctly and stored and treated correctly, they can last over 1,000 years on the shelf. The music and movies one own’s today on optical discs can be handed down to future generations to enjoy. Some Laserdiscs I still own that were made back in 1978 are 43 years old and playing perfectly fine since they were pressed (stamped) correctly and did not have any Laser rot issues.

When it comes to standard blank optical CD-R, DVD-R, and BD-R media, when stored correctly and treated correctly it can last up to 100 years. However, if the blank optical discs are cheaply manufactured with poor quality material the recordable optical media might only last between 5 to 20 years before going bad. Some recordable optical discs have a lifespan of around 3 to 5 years instead of the typical 100 year lifespan. While most my family made DVD-R data and video discs I made around 20 years ago are still working perfectly fine, I did run into a few DVD-R discs made 20 years ago that have major reading problems and errors on the discs because of age related quality issues. It should be mentioned that many hard drives and solid state drives last between 5 to 10 years. Also USB flash drives and SD cards sometimes only last around 10+ years. Maybe under ideal conditions the higher-end USB and SD cards might last 15 to 50+ years. But on average the typical blank CD-R, DVD-R, or BD-R disc can last up to 100 years if quality name brand discs are purchased.

According to online information the Department of Defense and other military organizations have ran age testing and other massive tests on the Blu-ray and DVD optical discs that use M-Disc technology. M-Discs sometimes cost around twice the price when compared to standard non M-Disc optical discs, but when it comes to storing important documents, family videos, and audio information that one needs to last over 1,000+ years, then M-Disc blank media is what many companies and families are using. This way over many centuries the data, videos, music, and other information can be passed on to future generations. Maybe some M-Disc Blu-ray’s that are 128GB or 100GB capacity might under ideal conditions last 1,400 years when stored correctly, while other Blu-ray M-Discs that have more abuse over the centuries might only last 800 years instead of the full 1,000+ years.

With inflation I have noticed a increase in prices for Blu-ray recordable computer drives and for recordable M-Disc blank media has also went up in price and is out of stock at several online companies. The Pioneer BDR-212UBK 4K Ultra HD BDXL 16 times BD-ROM drive is ideal drive to use for M-Disc Blu-ray discs that are 25GB, 50GB, 100GB, and 128GB. Standard 128GB capacity BDXL Blu-ray discs are now on the market, but it appears 128GB M-Disc models have not been released yet (100GB BDXL M-Discs do exists).

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...ves/BDR-212UBK

Verbatim makes high quality optical discs and they have a good selection of M Disc products to choose from. With options to have a thermal printable surface or inkjet printable surface for those that do not want a branded surface.

https://www.verbatim.com/subcat/opti...-disc-bd-r-dl/

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 06-21-2021 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 06-21-2021, 09:06 PM   #2
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I forgot to mention that solid state drives, hard drives, USB sticks, SD cards, tapes and most other storage technologies can be erased and destroyed by strong magnetics and EMPís. The big advantage of optical discs like Laserdisc, CDís, DVDís, Blu-rayís, and 4K Blu-rayís is the actual discs themselves are 100% immune and unaffected by EMI, RFI, magnetics, and EMPís. Once data is placed on a stamped optical disc or recordable write once optical disc the only way to get rid of that information is to destroy the optical disc in an optical disc shredder, or other means to destroy the optical disc. Therefore, many knowledgeable businesses and consumers that want things to last over 1,000 years well buy stamped optical discs and for personal family videos well use M-Disc recordable optical discs. Some consumers also place a BD-ROM computer drive, motherboard, and other computer components in a EMP resistant bag that many companies sell online. Itís only the optical discs that are 100% immune to EMPís, and the electronics in the computers themselves need to be replaced or protected if a strong EMP event occurs.
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Old 08-02-2021, 02:38 PM   #3
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Pressed BDs have gone bad and the re-writable discs have a short lifespan.
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Old 08-02-2021, 03:20 PM   #4
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Where can someone buy a machine that allows one to burn a Blu ray movie onto an MDisc .

I remember looking for such machines years ago and couldnít find one. Seems like a good archival format.
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Old 08-02-2021, 09:42 PM   #5
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadend45 View Post
Pressed BDs have gone bad and the re-writable discs have a short lifespan.
It all depends on the quality of the manufacturing process of the stamped disc. If they are manufactured correctly even a 100GB triple layer 4K Blu-ray can last over a 1,000 years if stored correctly. Rewritable discs (rewriteable up to around 1,000 to 10,000 times) can last up to a 100 years for some brands. However, I believe that no one makes a M-Disc as re-writeable yet, and one has to buy write once Blu-ray and DVD discs to get the 1,000+ year self life. There are many 1978 Laserdisc optical discs that were manufactured correctly with no impurities in the water that work perfectly fine for the analog video and analog audio after 43 year. Laserdiscs were all stamped (pressed) in a multi-million-dollar optical disc factory. Laserdisc was an analog medium for video and later digital for audio, but if there are any quality problems with the Laserdisc it would show up right away as laser rot sparkles on the screen. Over the years with over 1,000+ Laserdiscs over the years I have only seen a few that had Laser rot problems due to bad manufacturing process.

There is no guarantees in life, consumers can purchase optical stamped discs and hope that they last over a 1,000 years to pass on to future generations (some well, while others might not). When it comes to homemade videos of family members one can use M-Disc technology with up to 100GB discs that are rated to last over a 1,000 years when stored correctly.

There were several branches of the military that tested the M-Disc technology using age testing methods, and they rated the M-Disc optical disc technology to have a minimum lifespan of 1,000 years.

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“M-DISC is an archival-quality storage solution that preserves photos, videos, music, and documents for 1,000 years or more.
Unlike hard drives, flash drives, and other writable media, that can lose data, M-DISC has been designed to protect your information from degradation and loss for centuries.”

https://www.mdisc.com/index.html

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 08-02-2021 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 08-02-2021, 10:19 PM   #6
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eChopper View Post
Where can someone buy a machine that allows one to burn a Blu ray movie onto an MDisc .

I remember looking for such machines years ago and couldn’t find one. Seems like a good archival format.
These are for people to make their own homemade family movies, or for companies to release their movies on recordable media when there is not enough demand to run off a 1,000 stamped optical discs.


For around $160 one can purchase a top of the line Pioneer BDR-212UBK that supports M-Disc recording for all media sizes including 100GB and 128GB media. However 4 layer 128GB 1,000 year M-disc media is not released yet, and standard 100 year 128GB media exists instead. M-Disc is offered as 4.7GB DVD, 8.5GB DVD, 25GB Blu-ray and 50GB Blu-ray. The 25GB and 50GB media is 100% compatible with standalone Blu-ray players, where as the 100GB BDXL is only compatible with BDXL computer optical drives.

BDR-212UBK - Internal BD/DVD/CD Writer with 4K ULTRA HD Blu-Ray Playback and M-Disc™ Support | Pioneer Electronics USA


If one does not have access to a multi-million dollar optical disc stamping factory, and they want ton run off less then a 1,000 optical discs. Companies usually purchase one of these recordable Blu-ray/DVD machines for $9,708.98. It has 8 targets with 1000 Disc capacity.

Vinpower Digital Titan Supreme SATA SUP1000-S8T-BD-BK B&H Photo (bhphotovideo.com)

A cheaper solution would be around $2,135 for a Blu-ray duplicator.

Vinpower Digital SharkBluCP SHARKBLUCP-S11T-MFCP-BK B&H Photo (bhphotovideo.com)

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 08-02-2021 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 08-02-2021, 11:28 PM   #7
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Please show me a single optical disc that's been around 1,000 years and is still working
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Old 08-03-2021, 10:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluBonnet View Post
Please show me a single optical disc that's been around 1,000 years and is still working
Officially the oldest optical disc on the planet is the Laserdisc which is 43 years old. One would need to store a M-Disc away in the year 2021 and then invent a time machine in order to travel to the year 3021 in order to verify that the M-Disc Blu-ray and DVDís are in perfect playing condition with no problems. Then travel back to the year 2021 to tell everyone what the results are. Since a time machine does not exist, the Department of Defense had to use rapid age simulation technology on M-Discs to rate them with a estimated life span of around 1,000 years.

If stored correctly some people might be able to get their Blu-ray M-Discs to last 1,200+ years. If not stored correctly the M-Disc might only last 800 years. The companies that sell M-Disc claim that they well last over 1,000 years if stored correctly. Without a time machine the only way for that claim to be verified would be to have someone several thousands of years from now pull the 1,000 year old M-Disc out of storage to test its performance. Itís the generation a 1,000 years from now that well be able to verify that stamped optical discs and M-Discs can survive over 1,000 years.

Here is a interesting story I read from the United Kingdom:

ďThe M-Disc withstood the most extremes of outside weather without any data corruption.
It was unaffected with being half buried in ground soil.
It was unaffected by below freezing and above 80 degrees F. weather.
It was unaffected by hailstones, torrential rain, high winds, days of constant sunlight.

I don't know about 1000 years but I can verify this is a great medium for storing your
images and data on for archival purposes.Ē

http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/...sc-review.html
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Old 08-03-2021, 10:17 PM   #9
BluBonnet BluBonnet is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
Officially the oldest optical disc on the planet is the Laserdisc which is 43 years old. One would need to store a M-Disc away in the year 2021 and then invent a time machine in order to travel to the year 3021 in order to verify that the M-Disc Blu-ray and DVDís are in perfect playing condition with no problems. Then travel back to the year 2021 to tell everyone what the results are. Since a time machine does not exist, the Department of Defense had to use rapid age simulation technology on M-Discs to rate them with a estimated life span of around 1,000 years.

If stored correctly some people might be able to get their Blu-ray M-Discs to last 1,200+ years. If not stored correctly the M-Disc might only last 800 years. The companies that sell M-Disc claim that they well last over 1,000 years if stored correctly. Without a time machine the only way for that claim to be verified would be to have someone several thousands of years from now pull the 1,000 year old M-Disc out of storage to test its performance. Itís the generation a 1,000 years from now that well be able to verify that stamped optical discs and M-Discs can survive over 1,000 years.

Here is a interesting story I read from the United Kingdom:

ďThe M-Disc withstood the most extremes of outside weather without any data corruption.
It was unaffected with being half buried in ground soil.
It was unaffected by below freezing and above 80 degrees F. weather.
It was unaffected by hailstones, torrential rain, high winds, days of constant sunlight.

I don't know about 1000 years but I can verify this is a great medium for storing your
images and data on for archival purposes.Ē

http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/...sc-review.html
That may be so, but nobody knows what will happen tomorrow
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Old 08-04-2021, 11:36 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by BluBonnet View Post
That may be so, but nobody knows what will happen tomorrow
What's your point? Nobody should even try to make products that last a long time because we don't know what will happen in the future?
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Old 08-09-2021, 06:06 PM   #11
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I recall reading that the technology in regular Verbatim BD-Rs is similar to M-Discs. Verbatims are rated to 100 years. Why spend more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluBonnet View Post
Please show me a single optical disc that's been around 1,000 years and is still working
My cousin has some he bought at the flea market last year.
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Old 08-09-2021, 06:45 PM   #12
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At the rate we are going, I don't think the human race will even be here in 1,000 years. So why is this even a topic...Why would you even need a Blu ray to last that long...???? why would you even need it to last 100 years?? You would be long dead by then!!! I would be happy just getting 20 years of use out of something...
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Old 08-09-2021, 08:25 PM   #13
PenguinInfinity PenguinInfinity is offline
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Originally Posted by msb1428 View Post
At the rate we are going, I don't think the human race will even be here in 1,000 years. So why is this even a topic...Why would you even need a Blu ray to last that long...???? why would you even need it to last 100 years?? You would be long dead by then!!! I would be happy just getting 20 years of use out of something...
If discs only lasted 20 years then there would be thousands of unpopular and/or controversial movies that would become completely unavailable to everyone after the content owners stopped supporting them.

Ideally discs should outlast copyright (which is currently 120 years). So by the time the discs stop working the movies on them could be freely distributed without the copyright owners permission and would therefore be easy to legally acquire.

Last edited by PenguinInfinity; 08-09-2021 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 08-09-2021, 09:34 PM   #14
msb1428 msb1428 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity View Post
If discs only lasted 20 years then there would be thousands of unpopular and/or controversial movies that would become completely unavailable to everyone after the content owners stopped supporting them.

Ideally discs should outlast copyright (which is currently 120 years). So by the time the discs stop working the movies on them could be freely distributed without the copyright owners permission and would therefore be easy to legally acquire.
I meant the 20 year comment as hypothetical..my question is why are we worried if a plastic disc will last 100 or 1000 years...which they WILL NOT. even in controlled temperatures PLASTIC breaks down over time.....we will all be dead or close to it in 100 years...so WHO CARES???????:
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Old 08-09-2021, 09:37 PM   #15
BluBonnet BluBonnet is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msb1428 View Post
I meant the 20 year comment as hypothetical..my question is why are we worried if a plastic disc will last 100 or 1000 years...which they WILL NOT. even in controlled temperatures PLASTIC breaks down over time.....we will all be dead or close to it in 100 years...so WHO CARES???????:
This is exactly what I was hinting at earlier... Humans may not even be around in 100 years, let alone 1,000
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Old 08-09-2021, 10:53 PM   #16
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There are some classic silent movies on film that are already around 120 years old. Some were lost forever because of the film being stored incorrectly or tossed away. While other silent movies from the early 1900’s have had several million dollars spent on restorations and then released on the Blu-ray format. Once on the Blu-ray format stamped discs can last over 1,000 years. Standard Blu-ray recordable discs can last up to 100 years. Also M-Disc can last over 1,000 years but the discs most of the time are double the price but still cheaper then flash USB and SD sticks.

I have ran into some very low budget Blu-ray titles that have read errors when watched several times over and over, but that is unusual and there must have been impurities in the water or other problems in the manufacturing process. One can play an optical stamped disc over a billion times with no degradation. I have seen Laserdisc players placed on repeat for 3 years straight playing the same optical disc title, what happens is after several years the Laserdisc is still in perfect condition but the Laserdisc player breaks and needs replaced because it was running 24 x 7 for several years in a role.

The over 1,000 year lifespan is needed to pass on to the next generation. If one wants to save money they can purchase 100 year blank media for around $1.10 each for 25GB, but if one wants a 1,000 years for their data and home movies then around $2.25 each for the M-Disc 25GB.
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Old 08-09-2021, 10:53 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by BluBonnet View Post
This is exactly what I was hinting at earlier... Humans may not even be around in 100 years, let alone 1,000
Since we are now talking about doomsday scenarios the longevity of discs is even more important. If civilization has been destroyed there certainly won't be anyone making new discs or any internet to watch streaming movies.

But if the survivors can cobble together a working player, display, and generator they'll be able to play all the discs they find in the remains.
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Old 08-09-2021, 10:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity View Post
But if the survivors can cobble together a working player, display, and generator they'll be able to play all the discs they find in the remains.
You do realise there probably won't be any survivors, right?
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Old 08-09-2021, 10:58 PM   #19
msb1428 msb1428 is offline
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Another HUGE question I have...Is... How the hell do we know that Blu Ray disc's can last 100 or 1000 years... AGAIN they are made of plastic #1 and 2 "Discs" have only been around since the 70's...... where are we getting this "educated" information from....and HOW do they know??? are they 500 years old????
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Old 08-09-2021, 11:01 PM   #20
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Audio CDís and 4K Blu-rays contain a lot of historical information, cultural information, and tons of other information that people would like to pass on to the next generation. Music, movies, and documentaries are a big part of the culture for the 21st Century.
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