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Old 10-21-2015, 06:15 PM   #41
Hindustani Hindustani is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragun View Post
DDLJ was also shot with anamorphic lenses, but at 2.40:1. I believe spherical/Super-35 filming of 2.40:1 films started in India in the 2000s.

I'm surprised that any Indian films after Kaagaz Ke Phool were shot at 2.55:1. In the West that aspect ratio was dead by the late 50s.
Dragun

I believe HAHK is shot on spherical lens, non-anamorphic. I doubt Rajshri or Rajan Kanagi (DOP) were ever interested in high quality image on 35mm print. HAHK in theatres looked less detailed to me.

On the other hand, YRFs and Manmohan Singh (DOP) have always wanted to show switzerland aerial shots and colorful songs in high detail on vast canvas since CHANDNI days as LAMHE, DARR and DDLJ looked more detailed, more sharpness with less grain on big screen. hence most probably anamorphic 35mm.

I think all cinemascope movies till 1995 in bollywood are shot in 2.55:1 or more aspect ratio. Believe it of not, I have LOHA (1987) DVD by Moserbaer, I bet it is atleast 2.66:1 aspect ratio. This is literally the widest "cinemascope" process can shoot.


Last edited by Hindustani; 10-21-2015 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:19 PM   #42
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Damn, i actually thought it released for a second there. All these movies are releasing on Netflix. Where are the god @!##$ blu rays!!
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:31 PM   #43
Anurag1700 Anurag1700 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindustani View Post
I think all cinemascope movies till 1995 in bollywood are shot in 2.55:1 or more aspect ratio. Believe it of not, I have LOHA (1987) DVD by Moserbaer, I bet it is atleast 2.66:1 aspect ratio. This is literally the widest "cinemascope" process can shoot.
I have only one question on that. What makes u so sure these are not further cropped on top and bottom from 2.35 for dvd (mistakenly or otherwise mis-fitting some additional black mask or whatever) and that is what making them look like 2.66 probably ??
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:41 PM   #44
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I have only one question on that. What makes u so sure these are not further cropped on top and bottom from 2.35 for dvd (mistakenly or otherwise mis-fitting some additional black mask or whatever) and that is what making them look like 2.66 probably ??
You mean the SHOLAY syndrome. Shot in 35mm. cropped from top and bottom to make it look scope.

Its a possibility. But by late 70s since MUQADDAR KA SIKANDAR, RAM BALRAM, QURBANI days, cinemascope process has penetrated well into indian cinemas.

I worry more about squashed images from top and bottom making it look like 2.55:1 and 2.66:1.
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:45 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindustani View Post
You mean the SHOLAY syndrome. Shot in 35mm. cropped from top and bottom to make it look scope.

I worry more about squashed images from top and bottom making it look like 2.55:1 and 2.66:1.
yes more or less like sholay. My point is there is no certainty with which anyone cud say if there ever was a 2.55 or 2.66 ratio. is there any write up source for this stuff for indian cinema ?
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Old 10-21-2015, 07:12 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anurag1700 View Post
yes more or less like sholay. My point is there is no certainty with which anyone cud say if there ever was a 2.55 or 2.66 ratio. is there any write up source for this stuff for indian cinema ?
Because HAHK was a major blockbuster hit, IMDB states it is shot in 2.55:1 with ultra stereo sound.

Much of bollywood releases around that time 1975-1995, we are assuming.

As 70mm curved single screens were increasing in numbers in smaller towns too since late 70s after the incredible success of SHOLAY (1975) (PAKEEZAH to some extent as it was also shot in cinemascope).

We are assuming because bollywood film makers would want to fill up the entire curved cinemascope screen so that highest priced balcony tickets audience sitting all the way back see it big and wide enough.

Even a 1960s film maker vijay anand shot RAM BALRAM in cinemascope, his only widescreen release.

Even Manmohan Desai who loves shooting in academy flat ratio of 1.37:1 (AAA, COOLIE) shot NASEEB in cinemascope.

This is all due to SHOLAYs astounding 70mm releaase success.

What SHOLAY succeeded at widescreen process is where KAAGAZ KE PHOOL failed in previous decade.

Even though, SHOLAY was not shot in scope and KAAGAZ KE PHOOL was. But do remember. SHOLAY was shot on flat 35mm by Sippy-Diwarka Divecha (DOP) keeping 2.20:1 70mm release in mind. The best example is the train attack scene, SHOLAY never feels it was cropped from top and bottom.

There are few online articles but no definitive book written on indian cinema using widescreen processes.

Last edited by Hindustani; 10-21-2015 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:24 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindustani View Post
Dragun

I believe HAHK is shot on spherical lens, non-anamorphic. I doubt Rajshri or Rajan Kanagi (DOP) were ever interested in high quality image on 35mm print. HAHK in theatres looked less detailed to me.
HAHK was also anamorphic. With RARE exceptions like Sholay, Indian widescreen films were shot with anamorphic lenses, until the 2000s, when Super-35 filming with spherical lenses became more common. You can see anamorphic artifacts in some shots. Out of focus areas are a little stretched out, anamorphic "breathing" when racking focus.

Quote:
I think all cinemascope movies till 1995 in bollywood are shot in 2.55:1 or more aspect ratio. Believe it of not, I have LOHA (1987) DVD by Moserbaer, I bet it is atleast 2.66:1 aspect ratio. This is literally the widest "cinemascope" process can shoot.
I'm skeptical that these movies were meant to be seen at 2.55:1, given that the format died out in the 50s.

Perhaps the movies that are presented at 2.55:1 on home video are being cropped at the top and bottom for some reason, possibly to cover up splices.

Last edited by Dragun; 10-21-2015 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:45 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindustani View Post
Even a 1960s film maker vijay anand shot RAM BALRAM in cinemascope, his only widescreen release.
That is not correct. 'Rajput', produced by MIshir Riaz & directed by Vijay Anand, starring Rajesh Khanna, Dharmendra, Vinod Khanna, Hema Malini & Tina Munim/Ambani was also shot and released in Cinemascope.
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:48 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjay0864 View Post
That is not correct. 'Rajput', produced by MIshir Riaz & directed by Vijay Anand, starring Rajesh Khanna, Dharmendra, Vinod Khanna, Hema Malini & Tina Munim/Ambani was also shot and released in Cinemascope.
you sure RAJPUT was in scope?

I almost made the same mistake with Manmohan Desai here. GANGA JAMUNA SARASWATI disaster was in scope too.
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:49 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindustani View Post
you sure RAJPUT was in scope?
Yes. Quite sure.
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Old 10-22-2015, 03:05 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindustani View Post
I have LOHA (1987) DVD by Moserbaer, I bet it is atleast 2.66:1 aspect ratio. This is literally the widest "cinemascope" process can shoot.

Here I have a doubt. Considering MoserBaer reputation, there are 100% changes they have cropped the video from top and bottom, may be to hide some other video company logo. They were not into re-mastering the entire movie of their VCD/DVDs which cost 25-39/- range. I have seen their many DVDs in which they did nothing, video was faded, hissing sound. Even it was disappointing that earlier released DVDs of same movies were decent if we compare with MoserBaer ones. That's the time when MoserBaer slashed the DVD prices and they also lost trust in terms of quality. This LOHA image should be like this.

Loha.jpg
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Old 10-22-2015, 04:58 PM   #52
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Saw 15 more mins of HAHK on NETFLIX in HD.

The picture is cropped to almost 2.15:1 aspect ratio clearly. I say its a big loss. going from original 2.55:1 all the way down to 2.10-2.20:1.

VQ is the cleanest and clearest I've ever seen of HAHK ever. 2.5/5 on BluRay scale. missing details and needs serious color correction for a 21 yrs old film.

AQ is like 2.5/5 on BluRay scale. optical surround is crystal clear and vibrant. dialogues are clean too.

This is the best HAHK screening I've ever seen so far outside of cinema.

I'll finish the whole 3 hrs 15 mins in a months time.

Last edited by Hindustani; 10-26-2015 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 01-26-2016, 01:42 AM   #53
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Damn!

Now MAINE PYAR KIYA is available in atleast 720p on Netflix.

Netflix displays it as 1080. Sound is 2 channel PCM but I think it was originally 4-track stereo I believe.

My onkyo rz-900 is killing it right now in dolby surround mode.

R.I.P. MPK, HAHK, HSSH Blu Ray releases.

soon DEVDAS (2002) will make its way on Netflix too. :

This is by far the best, most detailed, high resolution version of MPK I have seen in both VQ and AQ.
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Old 01-26-2016, 02:11 AM   #54
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So far My favorite early Salman khan films are available in HD are:

1. MPK (netflix)
2. HAHK (netflix)
3. AAA (netflix)

so far my favorite early SRK films availbe in HD are:

1. DARR (BRD)
2. DDLJ (BRD and Netflix)

so far my favorite early Aamir Khan Films availbe in HD are:

1. AAA (netflix)

Films I am desperately waiting in HD from the Khan era are...

1. QSQT
2. Pather Ke Phool
3. Dil
4. Baazigar
5. Saajan
6. KHKN
7. RBGG
8. Deewana
9. HHRPK
10.Anjaam
11.Rangeela
12.DMN
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Old 01-26-2016, 06:34 AM   #55
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Here are jukebox videos that I found on Rajshri's YouTube channel.




All of them look much better than any other version of the film released so far. Do note that these movies were once handled by DEi. I am curious to know how the audio fares if compared to the good old DEi editions.

I even realized that Erosnow has videos of Rangeela which seem to be from a re-mastered source.

Songs


Scenes

Last edited by HDDCS; 01-26-2016 at 06:47 AM.
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Old 01-26-2016, 06:36 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindustani View Post
Films I am desperately waiting in HD from the Khan era are...

1. QSQT
2. Pather Ke Phool
3. Dil
4. Baazigar
5. Saajan
6. KHKN
7. RBGG
8. Deewana
9. HHRPK
10.Anjaam
11.Rangeela
12.DMN
Let's not forget Hum Dil De Chuke Sanam. No matter how over-melodramatic and cliche the movie was, boy! The musical numbers sure are great candidates for proper HD re-mastering. The DEi edition is still Bhagwan though.
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Old 01-27-2016, 03:33 AM   #57
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Let's not forget Hum Dil De Chuke Sanam. No matter how over-melodramatic and cliche the movie was, boy! The musical numbers sure are great candidates for proper HD re-mastering. The DEi edition is still Bhagwan though.
You brought interesting matter to the surface.

I consider "EARLY" Khan era to be upto 1995-1996 only

-Aamir: 1988-1995/96
-Salman: 1989-1995/96
-SRK: 1992-1995/1996


I just feel the storys and screenplays up until mid-90s were shot simpler. Less glamourous cinematography and no 5.1 sound made different feel to film watching experience.

Be it big budget Ghai movies (SAUDAGAR, KHALNAYAK, TRIMURTI)
Be it Kapoor, Dutt movies (RAJKUMAR, RKRCKR, SADAK etc)
Be it Govinda movies (AANKHEN, COOLIE NO.1, RAJA BABU)
Be it Khan movies (APK, QSQT, DEEWANA, BAAGHI, PKP, SAAJAN, HAHK, AAA, KHKN, BAAZIGAR, DARR etc etc etc)

Movies shot from mid-1996 and released from 1997 onwards feel the cinematography is much got much sleaker to match the Digital Sound and you dont feel the same story telling technique that was probably introduced by MR. INDIA in 1986 and continuted from late 1980s new wave bollywood (QSQT, CHANDNI, MPK, GHAYAL, DIL....)

KOYLA, DTPH, KKHH, HDDS, KNPH, VIRAASAT, SATYA, DIL SE etc etc like movie post-1996 have very different feel to them. Sleeker cinematography with lots of camera movement and different lens.

Last edited by Hindustani; 01-27-2016 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 01-29-2016, 04:05 PM   #58
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Here in the Uk, &tv HD has shown HAHK in HD and I must say it looks pretty awesome, even better then the Netflix version. Would love a 5.1 remaster on the HAHK movie, I remember the full version Eros Dvd including mujhse juda hokar and chocolate lime juice, was in aspect 4:3. The print was garbage but the sound was pretty good a 4channel up mixed to 5.1 I believe. I wish that &tv and Netflix had the full version including both those songs.
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Old 02-09-2016, 07:03 AM   #59
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Watched this movie LOHA on Max HD, I have clicked some photos (sorry for bad pictures). Third image in in different color mode.








Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindustani View Post
I think all cinemascope movies till 1995 in bollywood are shot in 2.55:1 or more aspect ratio. Believe it of not, I have LOHA (1987) DVD by Moserbaer, I bet it is atleast 2.66:1 aspect ratio. This is literally the widest "cinemascope" process can shoot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post
Here I have a doubt. Considering MoserBaer reputation, there are 100% changes they have cropped the video from top and bottom, may be to hide some other video company logo. They were not into re-mastering the entire movie of their VCD/DVDs which cost 25-39/- range. I have seen their many DVDs in which they did nothing, video was faded, hissing sound. Even it was disappointing that earlier released DVDs of same movies were decent if we compare with MoserBaer ones. That's the time when MoserBaer slashed the DVD prices and they also lost trust in terms of quality. This LOHA image should be like this.

Attachment 126247
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Old 02-09-2016, 03:47 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by prepress View Post
Watched this movie LOHA on Max HD, I have clicked some photos (sorry for bad pictures). Third image in in different color mode.





Thanks a lot. Wow. I did not realize, moserbaer LOHA is clearly cropped at the top only loops like.

Sony Max LOHA is horizontally cropped too.
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