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Old 02-14-2008, 06:11 PM   #41
Sonny Sonny is offline
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Just cause "they" bring a new XBOX next year* ( which I don't think they will & it would be F-ing dumb ) does not mean we will have a Ps4 & Sony would screw all 'us' Ps3 owners. Remember the XBOX is far inferior to the Ps3 & has a long way to go , even *2* generations from now M$ will be behind , they have been trying to play catch up ( even though its all about games & games only....RIGHT...) with the Ps3 since the Ps3 was lanched...& M$ had a year lead, just think of all the F-ing add on's.....then more & more add on's & in the end its still a piece of junk & I feel bad for people buying this crap, its just SAD & a disgrace to bring another console to market after this junk!!

Last edited by Sonny; 02-14-2008 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 02-14-2008, 06:20 PM   #42
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With nintendo, I'm sure they will revamp the wii sometime in it's product cycle, similar to releasing the DS lite, new system, but same thing in a new package. I think someone said it before, WiiHD sounds right up nintendo's alley, and they're bound to choose blu support before 2010. If I could by a Wii next week with a blu-ray player in it, I would even though I already have one.

But the thing I didn't see anyone mention is that all of these systems are now backwards compatible and will continue to be, so similar to how the PS2 is still developed for, I think we will continue to see the Wii/360 having games developed for them even after their new systems come out. With the introduction of downloadable content, I think it really showed the content makers that nostalgia is definitely a factor in gaming and we want to continue to be able to play the games we loved so much in the past, so I really think we'll just see continued integration and multiple supported platforms by system manufacturer and gaming developer.

I agree with Sonny, above. Microsoft should just bow out, I'm scared too see if they come out with a third iteration
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Old 02-14-2008, 06:46 PM   #43
mightypen mightypen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terjyn View Post
What exactly makes you think the 360 will be profitable?
1. Cost reduction in manufacturing
2. High 1st party software sales
3. High 3rd party sales (licensing fees)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Terjyn View Post
Combine that with the poor showing on multi-platform games this year and Microsoft's game division may not even generate another profitable quarter, much less somehow maintain it over a year or longer.
Poor showing in multi-platform games? What multiplat game has thus far flopped on the 360 and not likewise on the ps3?
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Old 02-14-2008, 06:49 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Mikeblu View Post
Graphics, graphics, graphics. Imagine you had a character that you couldn't disqinguish between HD video than this game. But all you can do in the game in walk around a white room.

Sure the graphics are good but who wan'ts to walk around a white room?
I'll believe such a vast gulf in graphics between the ps3 and 360 when I see it. Maybe it will be with MGS4, I hope?
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Old 02-14-2008, 07:11 PM   #45
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The original Xbox and Gamecube are dead. Yet, the PS/2 still sells very well.

So, the term "cycle" has to be interpretted. Sony is saying they expect the PS/3 to be on the market for 10 years. But, they will introduce something new at some point. Just like the PS/3 was introduced and the PS/2 continued.

Gary
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Old 02-14-2008, 08:23 PM   #46
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How much do these analysts get paid anyway? Thats like saying it will rain next month.
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Old 02-14-2008, 08:50 PM   #47
cking2729 cking2729 is offline
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I can really see Microsoft trying to get a year head start on the competition again. Even though they've lost over $1 billion from rushing the 360 to market, the general concept behind the rush was a success. Every gamer I knew, most of which were hardcore PS faithful, couldn't resist not having the first next-gen console on the market. Then 3-4 of their friends had to follow, and today the XBox stands where it does.

And there are people out there calling the PS3 a failure, which is a total fallacy. The truth is the PS3 launch was a failure. 1 year late to the party, at an abysmal price point, with hardly any outstanding titles = epic fail. Now consider the same time frame in 2007 at the right price point with better software and media -- and 4.9 million PS3 consoles sell in 3 months alone. Not even XBox could touch that.

MS will take the same approach and avoid going head-to-head with Sony in the next-gen, especially since Sony won't make the same mistake twice with the pricing.
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Old 02-14-2008, 10:06 PM   #48
Slackr89 Slackr89 is offline
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this is exactly why i bought a PS3 because i know that it has a 10year life cycle. actually by 2010 when M$ should have there next one out, if the 10 year cycle holds for the PS2, it will just be on its way out, and 6 years after, the PS3 will be on its way out, which would probably be M$ 5 console by 2016.
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Old 02-14-2008, 10:42 PM   #49
ps3andlovinit ps3andlovinit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cking2729 View Post
I can really see Microsoft trying to get a year head start on the competition again.

MS will take the same approach and avoid going head-to-head with Sony in the next-gen, especially since Sony won't make the same mistake twice with the pricing.
It's my *opinion* the 360 was always a Xbox 1.5 for the purpose of doing exactly this..changing the cycle timing so they can claim their "newer" model in 2010 is ahead of the curve and the PS3 etc are now old and dated. In alot of ways the 360 was a stop gap while they worked in parallel to catchup to the Cell or more likely use the Cell next time around.

The PS4 can be put on the market very quickly in response to anything MS releases - since it is just a matter of putting more Cell chips on the motherboard to significatly increase the graphic and simulation capabiliites - and devs will already be fully up to speed from their PS3 development curve. Just significantly more horsepower to tap into. The 360 CPU design doesn't scale out like that from a packaging or cost perspective.

The Cell is a platform for broad multi-media usage .. not a one-off PS3 component like previous console CPU's. That' the big difference than before. If you accept that you begin to see the mid to long term pickle MS is in right now. The Cell prices will continue to fall much faster than MS "proprietary" one-off 360 design. Where do they go for the 720? Sony, Toshiba and IBM invested in the Cell for more than the PS3 .. and Sony is already prepared and in great shape for the next round.

When you take into account 1080p will be here for a long time before the next big jump .. and the RSX can already pump it out quite nicely .. with extra Cells doing all the grunt work the PS4 is all but built .. not being a fanboy .. just thinking it thru. PS4 with 3 x 45nm Cells plus one 45nm RSX = launch PS3 with 1 90nm Cell and 1 90nm RSX in terms of the power envelope. Easily doable. Easily.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:33 PM   #50
jw jw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeblu View Post
Nintendo have been talking about bringing out another Wii but with HD graphics and a HDD. The WiiHD perhaps. I'll try and find a link.
I think thats how the wii will expand on the already successful wii platform. I am not sure the wii graphics really require a hd platform as the games are very basic graphics. Not sure we need a high def mii(your wii icon)

The console has tapped a whole different market, the true gamers have no interest in it
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:47 PM   #51
ps3andlovinit ps3andlovinit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightypen View Post
Bizarre predictions.

360 isn't slowing down in sales, at least in the US anyway,
January 2008 the PS3 outsold the 360 by 39,000 units...in the U.S.A.

Now we know why MS came out claiming supply shortages just before this was announced. Damage control would be my guess.

http://www.thesimexchange.com/blogpost.php?post_id=474

In the United States, the PS3 outsold the Xbox 360 with 269,000 units and 230,000 units respectively. The PS3 outperformed expectations by 28.5% while the Xbox 360 underperformed by 20.3%.
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:10 AM   #52
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i completely disagree with you on the cell stuff. it will NOT be in ps4. it will be like every other console, and a new cpu and gpu will be used.

not like new consoles are coming in 2010 anyways, how often are analysts right about anything
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:27 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightypen View Post
1. Cost reduction in manufacturing
2. High 1st party software sales
3. High 3rd party sales (licensing fees)
How high those sales will be is anyone's guess. I share Terjyn's prediction though, if nothing else because of history. So far, the XB division of Microsoft has had maybe 3 profitable quarters, the rest have been losses, and added up, it has amassed a loss of no less than 7 billion bucks. I see few changes in the ways things are going for them: they're still dead in Japan, they still spend a truckload beyond the point of diminishing returns on advertising, and they continue to lose money of 3rd party exclusives because the main way they get them is by covering the lion's share of dev costs.
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:57 AM   #54
Zipzap713 Zipzap713 is offline
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Nintendo already announced that a new console is in the works along w/ a new handheld. It will probably use DVD9 like the Xbox since Nintendo has always used the weaker technology.

Microsoft is probably realising how outdated they Xbox 360 is. That and it's DVD9 has already shown how much it can be streched. The only option they have is to release a new Xbox once the current one's sales decline, alot. I'll bet that they are already working one as we speak.
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Old 02-15-2008, 03:42 AM   #55
mightypen mightypen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zipzap713 View Post
Nintendo already announced that a new console is in the works along w/ a new handheld. It will probably use DVD9 like the Xbox since Nintendo has always used the weaker technology.

Microsoft is probably realising how outdated they Xbox 360 is. That and it's DVD9 has already shown how much it can be streched. The only option they have is to release a new Xbox once the current one's sales decline, alot. I'll bet that they are already working one as we speak.
Point of clarification only-nintendo hasn't always used weaker technology as recently as the last generation. That said, their next gen is probably not going to be too far ahead of where we are currently.
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Old 02-15-2008, 03:42 AM   #56
mightypen mightypen is offline
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Originally Posted by Musashi View Post
How high those sales will be is anyone's guess. I share Terjyn's prediction though, if nothing else because of history. So far, the XB division of Microsoft has had maybe 3 profitable quarters, the rest have been losses, and added up, it has amassed a loss of no less than 7 billion bucks. I see few changes in the ways things are going for them: they're still dead in Japan, they still spend a truckload beyond the point of diminishing returns on advertising, and they continue to lose money of 3rd party exclusives because the main way they get them is by covering the lion's share of dev costs.
yeah, we'll see I guess,
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Old 02-15-2008, 03:44 AM   #57
mightypen mightypen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ps3andlovinit View Post
January 2008 the PS3 outsold the 360 by 39,000 units...in the U.S.A.

Now we know why MS came out claiming supply shortages just before this was announced. Damage control would be my guess.

http://www.thesimexchange.com/blogpost.php?post_id=474

In the United States, the PS3 outsold the Xbox 360 with 269,000 units and 230,000 units respectively. The PS3 outperformed expectations by 28.5% while the Xbox 360 underperformed by 20.3%.
Yeah, MS really bungled their supplies, from nov till currently. Quite the opposite from last years massive channel stuffing.
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Old 02-15-2008, 04:07 AM   #58
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Maybe the new xbox will come with a built in bluray drive rather then bringing out a addon
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Old 02-15-2008, 04:45 AM   #59
Dynamo of Eternia Dynamo of Eternia is online now
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The next few years in the gaming industry are going to be interesting. I'm thinking and hoping that we are going to see some trends change (hopefully for the better).

As has been pointed out, on average the 'generations' of game systems turn over roughly every 5 years (give or take a year).

The PS2 is still going strong because of it's insanely huge user base, but it still didn't stop PS3 from coming out. There was a 6 year gap inbetween their releases, which is a little more than the 5 year average, but keep in mind that the PS3 was delayed a bit (for the better, to make it a better system), and it could be argued that the PS2 was a little rushed to the market to get a jump on some of the competition (while no where near as bad as the RROD issue of Xbox 360, many PS2s, particularly the older larger models, have been known for some fairly cronic disc read error issues).


The problem I see is that the PS3 is so powerful that another system to replace it shouldn't come out for propbably 10 years or so. But, if the other companies come out with systems in the next 2 to 3 years, will the public perceive the PS3 as being 'outdated' despite it's technical superiority? That's the thing to be concerned about. But, I really doubt they could make a system in the next few years that would be a huge leap over the PS3... at least not within a reasonable cost, and Sony already took one big gamble on releasing the PS3 at such a high price.... it's not a gamble that would be wise to repeat, IMO.

I can maybe see Nintendo coming out with one in 2011. I think they'll push the Wii for at leat 5 years before they make something new. And even then, if the system is still going strong enough, they may wait longer. Though, a new version with better graphics would be nice.

It's interesting looking at both the PS3 and Wii. On the one hand, the PS3 has the greatest, most inovative graphics capabilites that we've seen in a long time, but the Wii has some of the newest, most innovative and original gameply style that we've seen in quite some time. They both pushed the envelope but in very different ways.




Xbox is something of a conundrum. On the one hand, a new system might be in order, on the other hand, maybe not....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aznkiller908 View Post
Maybe the new xbox will come with a built in bluray drive rather then bringing out a addon
I wonder if they would do a mix of both. I mean, let's face facts... the two biggest problems with the 360 right now is the RROD issue (which they REALLY need to fix.... from what I understand newer units are better, but still not as good as they should be), and the issues with the storage that DVD offers.

In theory, if they fixed the malfunctioning issues that the system has, and were to give it a Blu-Ray add-on drive, it would bring the system up to speed with where it needs to be. Newer units have HDMI output (and I've even seen an adapter for older units to give it HDMI output, though I don't know how well it actually works), and with the space Blu-Ray offers, they could then make full 1080p games.

I would think that if they wanted to market a 'new system', they could just basically make a 360 (though market it under another name) with a built in Blu-Ray drive (and the RROD issues corrected, obviously), and at the same time offer an add-on option for existing 360 owners. I think this would be a good option, IMO.

Of course, there's always the rumor that Microsoft wants to push a new system in which all games for it (not just older, retro games) have to be downloaded, which I will boycott the hell out of. I have no interest in something like that.

As for the arguement that Xbox 360 has become profitable, it depends on what you mean by that. If we are arguing that the cost of making an Xbox 360 is lower than the cost that it is sold at, thus for that one until making a profit upon that sale, then I think there's some truth to that. But when looking that the 360 line as a whole, and the ongoing failure problems, I don't think Microsoft is profiting given the money they had to put out in replacing defective systems (not to mention the pretty wide period of time during which the cost of producing the system was more expensive than what they sold it for). But given these profitability issues, it would make the most sense to make a 'new' system which is just a 360 set up where these malfunction problems no longer exist and a Blu-Ray drive is added in. It would be the easiest move and would require little in developing new technology (and could help keep currentl 360 games compatible).


But, getting back on track here, we are getting to a point where the graphics capabilities (if using PS3 as the base standard) are plateauing (sp?), and there's no reasonable, affordable way to push them further within the same time frame there has previously been between the launch of one system and it's successor. Times have changed. It used to be that a new system could come out every 5 years, be a big leap over the previous one, and be affordable and profitable. But that's becoming less and less the case these days. And it's a trend I'd like to see change, and have longer life cycles with these systems. Speaking as a gamer who typcially buys all of the major systems for each generation, it's not a cheap habbit to keep up with. So the longer these things last, the better.
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Old 02-15-2008, 12:00 PM   #60
Terjyn Terjyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightypen View Post
Poor showing in multi-platform games? What multiplat game has thus far flopped on the 360 and not likewise on the ps3?
For both Devil May Cry 4 and Burnout Paradise, the two major cross-platform games this year, the 360 very much underperformed given it's 7 million extra consoles world-wide.

Roughly equal sales for a cross platform game when you have that many more consoles is a poor showing.
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