List of UHDs that contain HDR10+

[Aidenag]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Nah - actually recently I believe it has been revealed that new HDR10+ sets will be able to read DV metadata and convert to HDR10+ on the fly, essentially. If this ends up happening all HDR10+ owners will have a path to DV, but not necessarily the other way around. Anyway, you could ask the reverse question - are those who are resistant to HDR10+ only resistant because bought an expensive DV set with no path to HDR10+?

There are a couple of reasons some feel HDR10+ is the overall better choice:

First, it does the same thing as DV. It uses a different method but gets to the same result. While some could argue DV is 12bit, this is more a spec sheet difference as in terms of PQ there is no noticeable difference with 10bit with real world material. The main improvement you see with DV is the dynamic metadata, and HDR10+ has this covered.

Second, it is cheaper to implement than DV both in hardware and software. This means that it leaves more room for lower prices for consumers and perhaps greater penetration in the market over time. Take a look at the tiny percentage of DV discs vs HDR10 - the cost of DV definitely plays a role in how few UHDBDs actually have DV. With HDR10+, we could see a surge in discs with dynamic metadata once it gets off the ground - to the extent where HDR10 is eventually completely replaced by HDR10+. If you want more dynamic metadata on disc, you should be supporting HDR10+.

Lastly and perhaps most importantly, HDR10+ is an open standard. Many are fans of open standards and do not like closed standards like DV. When an open standard does the same thing as a closed standard, many will support the open standard first out of principal.

First: HDR10+ doesn't do the same as DV. close, but not the same. And it's not just 12 bit that separates them. This has been detailed over and over on forum and elsewhere, so won't go into the long winded details on it again.

Second: Nobody knows if it's actually cheaper or not as 10+ isn't free to use either. And both formats are hiding what the actual cost is to use said formats. And if TCL can adapt DV into a sub $1k tv this early on, the costs for DV can't be any real barrier on pricing.

Lastly: HDR10+ is NOT open source. Requiring a yearly usage fee, and forcing all other companies using it to share technology and secrets with Samsung makes it anything but a true open source format. Samsung is trying to pull a con job on people by saying it's open source. This is really starting to irk me when people keep repeating samsungs propaganda that its an open format. By the very definition of the term, they are not in any way shape or form open...

"denoting software for which the original source code is made freely available and may be redistributed and modified."

So, lets see here. They are not freely available, and you can't redistribute it, and you can't modify it any way you wish... Yep, not open.. plain and simple. Please everyone quit saying it. Your falling for one of the largest mega corporations on earth trying to say they are offering something that is open sourced format... What's next, you guys ganna fall for Apple saying iOS is open source and free? This is a slippery slope when the masses, especially more informed on the topic masses, buy into this type of crap.

[TheSweetieMan]

THAT Sony HDMI-Less Dolby Vision TV Firmware Update (& HDR10+) - YouTube

HDR10+ is a joke.

LG and Sony both have confirmed to Vincent Teoh, what another user on here pointed out that John Archer had reported at CES last week, that HDR10+ doesn't optimize end-to-end playback on all compatible panels the same way that Dolby Vision does. Instead, it relies solely on a universal algorithm. In theory, this is no different than what LG's 2017 and 2018 OLED models do, in using LG's proprietary 'Active HDR' algorithm, to simulate dynamic metadata, on static HDR10 content.

So, if you're an owner of a 2017 LG OLED model, just active your dynamic contrast settings to 'low', and voila, you now have HDR10+

What a joke.

[Aidenag]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

THAT Sony HDMI-Less Dolby Vision TV Firmware Update (& HDR10+) - YouTube

HDR10+ is a joke.

LG and Sony both have confirmed to Vincent Teoh, what another user on here pointed out that John Archer had reported at CES last week, that HDR10+ doesn't optimize end-to-end playback on all compatible panels the same way that Dolby Vision does. Instead, it relies solely on a universal algorithm. In theory, this is no different than what LG's 2017 and 2018 OLED models do, in using LG's proprietary 'Active HDR' algorithm, to simulate dynamic metadata, on static HDR10 content.

So, if you're an owner of a 2017 LG OLED model, just active your dynamic contrast settings to 'low', and voila, you now have HDR10+

What a joke.

Wow, i'd heard the rumor a few weeks ago, but to see it being confirmed by reputable sources now. That's pretty pathetic and show just how much of a con job this really is. Not open, not even really dynamic metadata, and not even free to use. So unless im missing something, all of it's supposed advantages were outright lies?

[TheSweetieMan]

Pretty much.

And since all sets/players will be using the same algorithm, for what work for one set, might not work for another.

So, it's just like the whole tone-mapping thing all over again.

There's no real benefit here. In fact, you can basically say that LG beat Samsung to the punch with this concept.

[nugget2016]

still better than static hdr10, if you dont have an LG OLED? but not by much.

[Geoff D]

Somewhere, a HeatEquation is crying.

[Vangeli]

Wait, so when I said HDR10+ was just "a free and not as good version of Dolby Vision," that was a compliment compared to the truth?

[Aidenag]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Somewhere, a HeatEquation is crying.

BURN!



it had to be done

[HumanMedia]

So its sort of like pushing for HD-DVD but a couple of years after Blu-ray is released?

[TheSweetieMan]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Somewhere, a HeatEquation is crying.

Dude deserves it.

[davcole]

While I'm sure it will look better than standard HDR 10, not shocked it has one universal algorithm!

I've felt that DV would technically be best but I'd love my set upgraded to HDR+ to be fully covered!

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[dlb99]

Since when has it been established that HDR10 is junk?

Last I checked most HDR content is HDR10. Have we been wasting our time without Dolby Vision or HDR10+ all this time?

As Steve Withers (from the UK AVForums) has stated multiple times, dynamic meta-data primarily benefits low-nit displays. The brighter and more capable your HDR set the less need there is for Dolby Vision or HDR10+. The Panasonic OLEDs without Dolby Vision are some of the best HDR displays on the planet.

Sure the DV 12-bit addition is nice; and dynamic meta-data in general is better to have (than not have). But this is cream on top, say like the difference between a 24-bit / 48khz soundtrack vs a 24-bit / 192khz soundtrack. Sure the bigger one is better but will you actually notice it?

Heck, Dolby Vision via HDMI on LG displays has the elevated blacks bug and Sony has the profiles-within-profiles issue. This is not filling me confidence that Dolby actually has its act together.

[dlb99]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

THAT Sony HDMI-Less Dolby Vision TV Firmware Update (& HDR10+) - YouTube

HDR10+ is a joke.

And Dolby Vision's profiles within profiles is not a joke?

Vincent's reaction between 2:45 - 3:00 is spot on...... FU**!!!!!

No wonder Samsung and Panasonic want nothing to do with this mess.

[TheSweetieMan]

Dolby’s already worked out a solution for the HDMI issue.

Sony has to take responsibility on their end for failing to implement Dolby Vision the way it’s intended. The idea that Dolby didn’t explain to Sony how this would all work, would be an absolute joke. Plus, from the sounds of it, Sony will also be working out this issue, resulting in DV playing back through HDMI just fine.

Again, I’m fine with waiting a few months if it means finally perfecting Dolby Vision all across the board. At least it has a proven end-to-end playback formula for literally every compatible set.

The fact that HDR10+ is entirely algorithm base, means that LG has already had this implemented in their 2017 panels.

So not only do LG owners get to experience Dolby Vision, but they’re also able to experience HDR10+, for all intents and purposes, before Samsung even rolls this out.

Also, bear in mind, I’m only posting this because one specific user thought HDR10+ was going to be some holy grail. When in fact, it’s an even bigger mess than any DV rollout. It’s a cheap imitation of what DV actually does.

[Aidenag]

dynamic meta-data primarily benefits low-nit displays. The brighter and more capable your HDR set the less need there is for Dolby Vision or HDR10+. The Panasonic OLEDs without Dolby Vision are some of the best HDR displays on the planet.

Im confused, you say meta data is mostly for lower nit displays, and that the more 'capable' displays dont need it. BUT, then proceed to say the panny oled, which is made by LG, and without dv, is one of the best tvs ever made? Does the panny logo grant the lg panel its made from super powers im not aware of?

[dlb99]

Originally Posted by Aidenag

Im confused, you say meta data is mostly for lower nit displays, and that the more 'capable' displays dont need it. BUT, then proceed to say the panny oled, which is made by LG, and without dv, is one of the best tvs ever made? Does the panny logo grant the lg panel its made from super powers im not aware of?

There is more to a TV than just a panel; you should know that. Processing, LUTs, fidelity, tone-mapping all matter.

The Dolby Vision cult is over-the-top; it's nice and it is useful, but when it's not there no one should be slitting their wrists since a TV that does HDR10 well will give you most of the benefits of HDR anyway.

Dolby Vision will be like Atmos; it will never be ubiquitous, some content and some hardware will support it, was other content/hardware won't. So I suggest getting used to it.

[TheSweetieMan]

Aaaaaaaaaand, regardless of all that, the launch of HDR10+ still turned out to be a complete joke.

That is, again, the original point.

[dlb99]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

Dolby’s already worked out a solution for the HDMI issue.

So they say. How does such a bug get out in the first place? It does not fill me with confidence; rather it says to me they were in a mad rush and stuffed up. Same for the Sony debacle.

Maybe bugs such as these are why Samsung/Panasonic/Fox are not doing Dolby Vision.

My position; HDR10+ vs DV vs Technicolor is a confused mess. Everyone supports HDR10; hence get a TV that does HDR10 superbly (especially tone-mapping and histogram analysis wise) and then get on with life. The brighter and better your TV the less need there is for dynamic meta-data.

P.S. Yes, DV is better to have than not have, but it is small cream on the top, not night and day difference.

[TheSweetieMan]

How do HDMI handshake issues happen?

There's always going to be bugs and kinks to work out when it comes to new formats.

Again, I couldn't care less. Dolby will get it figured out in the end.

I'm too busy laughing at HDR10+ being one, single universal algorithm, that isn't going to yield the same consistent results all across the board, the same way Dolby Vision does for its compatible panels.

[dlb99]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

Aaaaaaaaaand, regardless of all that, the launch of HDR10+ still turned out to be a complete joke.

That is, again, the original point.

How is it a joke?

The format is literally six months old.

HDR10+ is primarily for TV in the 500nit range that don't have enough processing to do on-the-fly analysis (such as LG top-ends OLED do).

HDR10+ and Dolby Vision achieve maximum benefit for mid-range TVs.

Again, the brighter and better your HDR TV the less benefit dynamic meta-data provides; law of diminishing returns.