Spears & Munsil Blu-ray Test Disc - Page 36 - Blu-ray Forum

Geoff D · 02-14-2016, 05:26 PM

Thank you sir! It's a shame that the format is launching in this half-baked state re: encoding tools but I get the feeling that it was now or never. I'm leaning further and further away from the Samsung player, the hints at possible baked-in noise reduction and the various other issues that some folks are having don't fill me with confidence.

Stacey Spears · 02-14-2016, 08:42 PM

I will be at HPA next week and Boulder (ICDM) the following. After that, I will look a the pixel values coming out of the Samsung and see if they are doing anything. Just need to generate some test patterns to measure it. Picture modes in a BD player is sketchy.

I don't think there is any baked in NR in the Samsung player. The BD and UHD looked the same in terms of detail when both were compared at 1080p SDR.

It is not a great launch, that is for sure. I get the now or never. Problem is, if you underwhelm at launch, then the masses may not adopt.

Maybe Penton-man can come say hello to me next week if he is at HPA. SpectraCal has a booth. I will see Don Eklund at both HPA and ICDM. In fact, Don is the reason Sony loaned me Blu-print.

Mr Kite · 02-14-2016, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Thank you sir! It's a shame that the format is launching in this half-baked state re: encoding tools but I get the feeling that it was now or never. I'm leaning further and further away from the Samsung player, the hints at possible baked-in noise reduction and the various other issues that some folks are having don't fill me with confidence.

I do remember reading that previous Samsung BR players did indeed have a level of undefeatable NR applied, if this is still the case with UHD players I can not say.

Stacey Spears · 02-14-2016, 09:08 PM

Was not aware of that with the Samsung BD player. I use OPPO players normally, so would not now.

At this point, I don't buy curved products, so no Samsung for me.

ray0414 · 02-15-2016, 06:30 PM

Regarding bit rate, I think it's going to make a big difference which is why you were disappointed in the vudu stuff.

So far in the forums, there's about 5 of us that have double dipped on uhd blu ray that we already own the MGO 4k hdr versions, and we are all agreeing that the discs are noticeably better with black levels along with color and sharpness.

Also, all samsung owners are seeing the banding. But it's hit or miss with other owners. If the banding was compression, shouldn't it be seen by every tv owner and also more throughout the movie? The 1st few minutes seem to be the worst.

I also wanted to mention a strange phenomenon that the samsung owners have also noticed. With regards to uhd hdmi color option. The picture is much more vibrant with colors and sharpness and better black levels with uhd color turned OFF. Turning it on can help alleviate the banding but the picture loses half of its contrast. A user did a great photo comparison on avs showing the different setting options and even in the pictures, the colors were very vibrant with it turned off on the tv.

Have you experimented with uhd color on the js9500?

ray0414 · 02-16-2016, 07:31 PM

Stacey, i also wanted to ask about your opinion on black levels with HDR/discs.

Should we expect better black levels with HDR than with 1080P SDR discs? the feedback from a few people, myself included, is the much improved black levels across the board. some say this isnt possible, so whats the deal?

here is a picture i was able to create showing the difference between the 1080P blu ray and the 4k HDR disc version of the martian. The 4k version is sharper with more detail but if you look closely it also has better black levels too of the skull and the fancy writing on top of it.

helvetica bold · 09-10-2016, 06:21 PM

Stacey I know you're traveling but did you spend time with the Sony Z9? Any early impressions?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stacey Spears · 09-10-2016, 07:55 PM

I posted results in the Z9D thread.

ckenisell · 03-19-2018, 07:14 PM

Stacey,

How's the 4K HDR Calibration disc coming along? Do you anticipate the Dolby Vision vs. HDR10+ war to delay the development?

I am about to take delivery on the Samsung QLED 2018 (Q8F) and I have no idea how I am going to calibrate it when HDR is involved.

Stacey Spears · 03-19-2018, 07:26 PM

We are currently working on a press disc that will most likely be HDR10. Then the final disc will be Dolby Vision. HDR10+ calibration will be no different as you should use static metadata to calibrate. No plans for actual HDR10+ or HLG at this time.

Press disc will be pretty small with a limited number of patterns. No audio on it.

One thing we have to look at it number of different nit versions of various patterns. That could increase the amount of content, but can hide under a radio button.

CalMAN can auto cal Samsung displays. That is about the best you can do for HDR. There is no brightness and contrast for HDR. If you touch those, you can screw up the tone mapper. Color and sharpness is about the limit of manual user control.

turns2stone · 03-19-2018, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckenisell

Stacey,

How's the 4K HDR Calibration disc coming along? Do you anticipate the Dolby Vision vs. HDR10+ war to delay the development?

I am about to take delivery on the Samsung QLED 2018 (Q8F) and I have no idea how I am going to calibrate it when HDR is involved.

I just bit the bullet and ordered a VideoForge Pro. I honestly thought we'd never get a decent HDR/DV test disc, so this is exciting news from Stacey above.

Stacey Spears · 03-19-2018, 07:56 PM

The VFP and another HW gen will both allow proper calibration of DV and HDR10. The HDR disc will be more about evaluation than anything else. HDR is so much different than SDR because of tone and gamut mapping. Makes most SDR style of patterns not work in HDR.

turns2stone · 03-19-2018, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

The VFP and another HW gen will both allow proper calibration of DV and HDR10. The HDR disc will be more about evaluation than anything else. HDR is so much different than SDR because of tone and gamut mapping. Makes most SDR style of patterns not work in HDR.

Ah, I figured there was no free lunch

I've been wearing out your 2nd Edition test Blu-ray on my recently-acquired LG C7. But it's been bugging me that I have no clue how close my HDR/DV is to accurate. I'll be ready to dive in soon, and I think I'll eventually pick up a 2018 LG for another room and use the VF PRO and CalMAN for autocal.

Stacey Spears · 03-19-2018, 09:37 PM

The 2018 LGs can do a 1D and 3D LUT for SDR, HDR10 and DV. This makes a pretty big difference. They showed this at CES and HPA.

Robert Zohn · 03-20-2018, 01:24 AM

Here's a pic showing LG's 2018 auto cal modes. Very nice selection of specialized calibration modes for FHD/SDR and UHD/HDR10, HLG HDR and Dolby Vision HDR with the power to write to the CPU's LUT at 36000 points. Calibration accuracy at a new level that includes all SDR and HDR formats.

Geoff D · 03-26-2018, 11:49 AM

I've been using using Ryan Masciola's HDR10 patterns for calibration for a while now **runs away quickly**

ROSS.T.G. · 04-03-2018, 01:08 AM

Any idea when we can expect a UHD release?

carbonS54 · 05-17-2018, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ross.t.g.

any idea when we can expect a uhd release?

+1

145gtw · 07-05-2019, 12:59 PM

For those unaware, the UHD Edition is now available.

ckenisell · 07-05-2019, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 145gtw

For those unaware, the UHD Edition is now available.

Thanks for the heads up. Purchase made.

03-20-2018, 01:24 AM	#715
Robert Zohn Retailer Insider Member since:Nov 2009 Location:Scarsdale, NY Trading Score:2	Here's a pic showing LG's 2018 auto cal modes. Very nice selection of specialized calibration modes for FHD/SDR and UHD/HDR10, HLG HDR and Dolby Vision HDR with the power to write to the CPU's LUT at 36000 points. Calibration accuracy at a new level that includes all SDR and HDR formats. Last edited by Robert Zohn; 03-20-2018 at 01:48 AM.

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02-14-2016, 05:26 PM	#701
Geoff D Blu-ray Emperor Top contributor Member since:Feb 2009 Location:Swanage, Engerland 4K collection:1076 Blu-ray collection:2380 Blu-ray reviews: 6 Trading Score:33	Thank you sir! It's a shame that the format is launching in this half-baked state re: encoding tools but I get the feeling that it was now or never. I'm leaning further and further away from the Samsung player, the hints at possible baked-in noise reduction and the various other issues that some folks are having don't fill me with confidence.

02-14-2016, 08:42 PM	#702
Stacey Spears BD Test Disc Author Member since:Mar 2008	I will be at HPA next week and Boulder (ICDM) the following. After that, I will look a the pixel values coming out of the Samsung and see if they are doing anything. Just need to generate some test patterns to measure it. Picture modes in a BD player is sketchy. I don't think there is any baked in NR in the Samsung player. The BD and UHD looked the same in terms of detail when both were compared at 1080p SDR. It is not a great launch, that is for sure. I get the now or never. Problem is, if you underwhelm at launch, then the masses may not adopt. Maybe Penton-man can come say hello to me next week if he is at HPA. SpectraCal has a booth. I will see Don Eklund at both HPA and ICDM. In fact, Don is the reason Sony loaned me Blu-print.

02-14-2016, 09:08 PM	#704
Stacey Spears BD Test Disc Author Member since:Mar 2008	Was not aware of that with the Samsung BD player. I use OPPO players normally, so would not now. At this point, I don't buy curved products, so no Samsung for me.

02-15-2016, 06:30 PM	#705
ray0414 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Oct 2015 Location:Michigan, USA, 35yo Trading Score:8	Regarding bit rate, I think it's going to make a big difference which is why you were disappointed in the vudu stuff. So far in the forums, there's about 5 of us that have double dipped on uhd blu ray that we already own the MGO 4k hdr versions, and we are all agreeing that the discs are noticeably better with black levels along with color and sharpness. Also, all samsung owners are seeing the banding. But it's hit or miss with other owners. If the banding was compression, shouldn't it be seen by every tv owner and also more throughout the movie? The 1st few minutes seem to be the worst. I also wanted to mention a strange phenomenon that the samsung owners have also noticed. With regards to uhd hdmi color option. The picture is much more vibrant with colors and sharpness and better black levels with uhd color turned OFF. Turning it on can help alleviate the banding but the picture loses half of its contrast. A user did a great photo comparison on avs showing the different setting options and even in the pictures, the colors were very vibrant with it turned off on the tv. Have you experimented with uhd color on the js9500?

09-10-2016, 06:21 PM	#707
helvetica bold Member Member since:Nov 2013	Stacey I know you're traveling but did you spend time with the Sony Z9? Any early impressions? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

09-10-2016, 07:55 PM	#708
Stacey Spears BD Test Disc Author Member since:Mar 2008	I posted results in the Z9D thread.

03-19-2018, 07:14 PM	#709
ckenisell Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Jun 2007 Location:Round Rock, TX Blu-ray collection:368 Blu-ray reviews:3	Stacey, How's the 4K HDR Calibration disc coming along? Do you anticipate the Dolby Vision vs. HDR10+ war to delay the development? I am about to take delivery on the Samsung QLED 2018 (Q8F) and I have no idea how I am going to calibrate it when HDR is involved.

03-19-2018, 07:26 PM	#710
Stacey Spears BD Test Disc Author Member since:Mar 2008	We are currently working on a press disc that will most likely be HDR10. Then the final disc will be Dolby Vision. HDR10+ calibration will be no different as you should use static metadata to calibrate. No plans for actual HDR10+ or HLG at this time. Press disc will be pretty small with a limited number of patterns. No audio on it. One thing we have to look at it number of different nit versions of various patterns. That could increase the amount of content, but can hide under a radio button. CalMAN can auto cal Samsung displays. That is about the best you can do for HDR. There is no brightness and contrast for HDR. If you touch those, you can screw up the tone mapper. Color and sharpness is about the limit of manual user control.

03-19-2018, 07:56 PM	#712
Stacey Spears BD Test Disc Author Member since:Mar 2008	The VFP and another HW gen will both allow proper calibration of DV and HDR10. The HDR disc will be more about evaluation than anything else. HDR is so much different than SDR because of tone and gamut mapping. Makes most SDR style of patterns not work in HDR.

03-19-2018, 09:37 PM	#714
Stacey Spears BD Test Disc Author Member since:Mar 2008	The 2018 LGs can do a 1D and 3D LUT for SDR, HDR10 and DV. This makes a pretty big difference. They showed this at CES and HPA.

03-26-2018, 11:49 AM	#716
Geoff D Blu-ray Emperor Top contributor Member since:Feb 2009 Location:Swanage, Engerland 4K collection:1076 Blu-ray collection:2380 Blu-ray reviews: 6 Trading Score:33	I've been using using Ryan Masciola's HDR10 patterns for calibration for a while now runs away quickly

04-03-2018, 01:08 AM	#717
ROSS.T.G. Blu-ray Champion Member since:Jan 2010 Location:Ontario, Canada 4K collection:393 Blu-ray collection:1549 Blu-ray reviews:16	Any idea when we can expect a UHD release?

07-05-2019, 12:59 PM	#719
145gtw Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Jan 2015 Blu-ray collection:101 Trading Score:16	For those unaware, the UHD Edition is now available.

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