Best Blu-ray Movie Deals


Best Blu-ray Movie Deals, See All the Deals »
Top deals | New deals  
 All countries United States United Kingdom Canada Germany France Spain Italy Australia Netherlands Japan Mexico
The Blackening 4K (Blu-ray)
$19.99
2 hrs ago
The Equalizer 3-Movie Collection 4K (Blu-ray)
$48.55
 
The Flash 4K (Blu-ray)
$24.99
1 day ago
Star Trek: Picard - The Final Season (Blu-ray)
$31.95
3 hrs ago
Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon? - Season 4 Part 1 (Blu-ray)
$48.33
 
The Equalizer 3 4K (Blu-ray)
$29.96
 
Babylon 5: The Complete Series (Blu-ray)
$100.00
 
Rudy 4K (Blu-ray)
$31.99
 
Silver Bullet 4K (Blu-ray)
$30.00
 
Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse / Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse (Blu-ray)
$26.85
58 min ago
Violent Night 4K (Blu-ray)
$21.99
 
TerrorVision / The Video Dead (Blu-ray)
$13.99
1 day ago
What's your next favorite movie?
Join our movie community to find out


Image from: Life of Pi (2012)

Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Displays > Display Theory and Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-31-2009, 07:17 AM   #1
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Jan 2007
205
Default Five low cost $1,500 and under 1080P Flat Panels Face off HEAD TO HEAD

Five low cost $1,500 and under 1080P Flat Panels Face off HEAD TO HEAD

(September 2009 Home Theater Magazine pages 20-36)

In the September 2009 Home Theater Magazine on pages 20-36 is a very in depth article comparing 5 different brands of low cost HDTV's between $900-$1,500. This very in depth article had a panel of several professional reviewers that rated the 5 different brands of HD displays in terms of black level, shadow detail, color, resolution, value, and the ultimate final score of "OVERALL PERFORMACE".

In the Home Theater face off only 4 out of the 5 TV's were set to disable the 3:2 pulldown process since the 5th TV had a lot less brightness and a noticeable flicker issue when trying to display 1080P/24 material at multiplies of the original frame rate.

The 4 best TV's tested with the true 1080P/24 refresh rate feature turned on is the following displays:

1. Sony KDL-40V5100 LCD (Best performing LCD with true 5:5 pulldown) $1,500
2. LG 42LH40 LCD (Second best performing LCD with true 5:5 pulldown) $1,400
3. VIZIO SV420M LCD (Third best performing LCD with true 5:5 pulldown) $900
4. Toshiba 42ZV650U LCD (Fourth best performing LCD with true 5:5 pulldown) $1,300


Official Home Theater Face off Results when the Panasonic Plasma is viewed at 60HZ with 3:2 pulldown

1. Panasonic TC-P42G10 Plasma (Best picture quality overall, but only 60HZ viewing mode could be used with 3:2 pulldown during the face off) $1,300
2. Sony KDL-40V5100 LCD (Second best performing TV with true 5:5 pulldown) $1,500
3. LG 42LH40 LCD (Third best performing TV with true 5:5 pulldown) $1,400
4. VIZIO SV420M LCD (Fourth best performing TV with true 5:5 pulldown) $900
5. Toshiba 42ZV650U (Fifth best performing TV with true 5:5 pulldown) $1,300

During the face off according to the Home Theater magazine review the Panasonic TC-P42G10 Plasma had a noticeable flicker that was so annoying to watch at 48HZ that the Panasonic display needed to be placed in the 60HZ 3:2 pulldown mode for all viewing and testing during the face off. Also the 48HZ mode greatly reduced the output brightness so it needed to be turned off to be more comparable to the brighter LCD displays. Even though the Panasonic 48HZ mode could not be used for this face off, overall the Panasonic produced the best overall picture quality even at 60HZ since it was the winner of the face off. The Sony KDL-40V5100 was a close second. The advantage of the plasma off angle viewing, color quality, and resolution pulled the Panasonic ahead in points enough to win the face off. The Sony KDL-40V5100 LCD beat the Panasonic in terms of deeper black levels. The amazing thing is that this Sony display is a standard LCD screen without Local Dimming LED backlighting. The picture quality gap between LCD and plasma is closing a lot faster with Pioneer now out of the picture. This Sony standard LCD display beat the Panasonic plasma in the area of black levels. Panasonic needs to start improving on their plasma technology since possible LCD's with LED backlighting might win a future face off. Back in Feb 2009 the Sony KDL-55XBR8 outperformed the Panasonic TH-50PZ800U. If Sony comes out with a new and improved 2009 LCD with Local Dimming LED backlighting display it might even beat the picture quality of the Panasonic V10 plasma series. Click here for Feb 2009 Face off results

Personally I do not like watching BLU-RAY's at 60HZ since camera pans add 3:2 pulldown judder to the image and the image looks more like video instead of a natural film quality look. For those that want the picture quality improvements of plasma with flicker free 1080P/24 refresh rates I would strongly recommend the Panasonic TC-P50V10 model that is 100% flicker free at 96HZ. The Panasonic 50 inch V10 list price use to be $2,199.95 but Panasonic just recently reduced it to $2,099.95. When on sale you can find the 50 inch V10 for under $2,000 at Best Buy or mail order companies.

For those consumers that would pefer to spend $1,500 or less on a TV and do not want to watch BLU-RAY's at 60HZ then the Sony KDL-40V5100 mentioned in the face off would be a excellent choice. The Sony 120HZ LCD properly handles 1080P/24 with no flicker issues and it even has deeper blacks when compared to the Panasonic TC-P42G10.




The following are word for word quotes from the September 2009 Home Theater face off written by Thomas J. Norton

"Our last Home Theater Face Off (February 2009) leaned heavily toward larger, high- end sets. The challengers this time around cover the popular 40-to-42-inch (diagonal) range. While theyíre hardly cheap, theyíre less likely to break the old piggy bank."

"The LCD sets here all use conventional CCFL (fluorescent) backlighting. They also operate at a 120-hertz refresh rate, with optionally selectable frame interpolation. The Toshiba takes this wrinkle a step further with its own variation on 240-Hz operation."

"The five sets were arranged in a row with a gentle arc and camouflaged to conceal the brands and models. The panelists shifted seats and viewing distances frequently during the test to judge various aspects of each setís performance."

"The smoothing that interpolation provides can make film-based sources look like video, and there are mixed opinions of the process, even here at Home Theater. I switched this feature off during the group test and only demonstrated it to the panel members after they had completed their ratings."

Click here to read the compete Introduction to the Face off article at the Home Theater website

1. Panasonic TC-P42G10 ($1,300):

"The set will display sources up to 1080p/60p. For 1080p/24 material, a 24p Direct selection in the menu lets you choose either 48-Hz playback (2 x 24 frames per second, with no 3:2 pulldown) or 60 Hz. In the latter mode, the set converts 24-fps sources to 60p by adding 3:2 pulldown. We used the 60-Hz setting on the Panasonic for this review, as it provided significant added brightness. It needed this to match the brightness of the other sets as closely as possible. It also eliminated an image flicker thatís visible when 24-fps sources are displayed at a 48-Hz refresh rate"

"Others also noted the setís lack of motion blur, although one panelist felt that the motion was slightly more juddery than the others. This might be traceable to the fact that the Panasonic was running at a frame rate of 60 Hz with 3:2 pulldown, as noted above."

"Excellent blacks and shadow detail"

"Superb off-axis performance"

"The Panasonic was clearly the judgesí favorite, and everyone rated it first or second. It pulled in first-place finishes in the composite scores (including ties for color and shadow detail) in three of the four main performance categories. It finished second only in black level and not by much."

"Everyone on the panel liked the Panasonicís blacks, although some favored them more than others."

"Only one judge was a bit luke-warm, offering faint praise. ďPretty good black level for this bunch of sets,Ē he wrote, ďbut Iíd still prefer darker.Ē No doubt, this was a recovering Pioneer KURO junkie."

"The Panasonic also topped the group in its resolution."

"Conclusions"

"Thereís not a lot to say here, since the Panasonic nearly ran away with this Face Off. Only the Sony issued a strong challenge. In the raw scores, the Panasonic grabbed nearly 10 percent more points than the second-place Sony, 28 percent more than the third-place LG, and 43 percent more than the Toshiba. It was also the clear value leader."

"If you donít need the extra brightness that an LCD can provide and you do most of your serious viewing in a room with subdued lighting, this could be your new flat-panel set."

Click here to read the complete Panasonic plasma review at the Home Theater website

2. Sony KDL-40V5100 ($1,500):

"Plasma-like blacks and shadow detail"

"Good color and resolution"

"As the most expensive entry in the group, as well as the smallestóthough not by much in either caseóa lot was expected of the Sony."

"The Sony does have a useful lineup of features; some were useful, others not so much. More importantly, its black-level performance and shadow detail surprised almost everyone when I revealed the setsí identities."

"Sonyís Motionflow is the companyís 120-Hz technology. It worked about as well as any similar feature Iíve seen, although Iím not a fan of this sort of processing, particularly for movies. It does smooth out motion, which some viewers might find useful on sports or other video-based programming."

"The Sony accepts 1080p/24 material and displays it by either repeating each real frame four times to reach the displayís refresh rate of 120 Hz (in other words, 5:5 pulldown). Or, with Motionflow engaged, by inserting four interpolated frames for each real frame. It does the same with 1080p/60 (either a native 1080p/60 at the input or upconverted from 1080i or a lower resolution to 1080p by the setís internal processing). However, in this case, it inserts a single interpolated frame instead of four to reach the setís 120-Hz refresh rate."

"In my own time with these sets, the Sonyís black level and natural punch impressed me in a way that I never expected from an LCD without an advanced and expensive technology like LED backlighting with local dimming."

"The judges definitely agreed. ďBest black level on axis and best shadow detail of the bunch,Ē wrote one judge, although he was a bit bothered by the way bright scenes washed out as he moved off axis. He also observed that the Sony had more video noise than the others in dark scenes. But none of this kept him from giving it solid 10 scores for both black level and shadow detail."

"Conclusions"

"The Sony came in a close second in the judging. Two members of the five-judge panel voted it first overall, and two rated it second. No one really disliked it. I canít say how I might have voted had I been participating blind, but I like to think I would have placed it on top, given my partiality to serious viewing in a darkened room and the resulting need for great black levels. As I noted earlier, the Sony also won raves for its performance with the lights onóalthough that was a very short part of the test and not included in the scoring."

"This Sony may not have grabbed a victory here, but itís still a clear winner."

Click here to read the complete Sony 120HZ LCD review at the Home theater website


3. LG 42LH40 ($1,400):

"Korean-based manufacturer LG began as a Lucky Goldstar and evolved into a Lifeís Good maker of a wide range of consumer electronics goods. Itís now one of the biggest makers of flat-panel televisions on the planet, if not the biggest."

"As with all the LCD sets here, the LG operates at a refresh rate of 120 Hz. With a 1080p/24 input, if you turn off TruMotion 120Hz (LGís motion-smoothing, frame interpolation feature), the set performs 5:5 pulldown on the 24-Hz input, adding four repeated frames to reach the displayís refresh rate of 120 Hz. With TruMotion 120Hz turned on, the LG interpolates the added frames."

"With a 1080p/60 input (or a lower-resolution input upconverted by the set to 1080p/60) and TruMotion 120Hz off, the set adds a single repeated frame to each real frame to get to 120 Hz. With TruMotion 120Hz on and an input with 3:2 pulldown, it recognizes the 3:2 cadence, converts the signal to 1080p/24, and then interpolates four new frames for each real one. However, if a source has 2:2 pulldown, it pulls it down to 30p and then interpolates three new frames to reach 120 Hz."

"The LG turned in terrific scores for color (where it finished in a first-place tie with Panasonic) and resolution. It tied for second place in shadow detail, but two sets also tied for first in that category, and the second-place scores were well below the first-place ratings."

"Conclusions"

Altogether, the LG turned in a respectable but not star-making showing. Its strength was in its color, no doubt due to its remarkably flexible calibration controls. Its biggest weaknesses, which it shared with two other sets in the group, were its blacks and shadow detail."

"These problems were not as obvious when I briefly turned on the studioís overhead fluorescent lights after the formal scoring was over. This means that youíll be unlikely to see them in a brightly lit showroom. Perhaps not at home, either, if you rarely watch the set with the room lights dimmedóor turned off."

"Weíre anxiously waiting to see what LG has in store in its upcoming local-dimming sets. They should greatly improve on these issues (although for a price), giving the companyís accomplishments in other aspects of image quality a chance to shine."

Click here to read the complete LG 120HZ LCD review at the Home theater website


4. VIZIO SV420M ($900):
"Coming from nowhere just a few years ago, this relatively new television manufacturer has managed to muscle its way into the ranks of the market leaders by selling its sets largely through major discount warehouse retailers like Costco."

"As with all the LCD sets here, the Vizio operates at a refresh rate of 120 Hz. And as such, it offers its own aptly named motion-smoothing feature: Smooth Motion. It has two separate adjustments: Smooth Mode Effect and Real Cinema. If the set receives a 1080p/24 input with the Smooth Mode Effect control off, it repeats each frame four times (5:5 pulldown) in order to reach the displayed 120-Hz refresh rate. With Smooth Motion Effect on (in any of its three active modesóLow, Middle, or High) and the Real Cinema control set to Smooth, the set also adds four new frames for each real one. In this case, the frames are interpolated. Oddly, if Smooth Motion is on and the Real Cinema control is set to Precision, the Vizio first converts 1080p/24 to 1080p/60 and interpolates a single added frame to reach 120 Hz."

"With a 1080p/60 input (or a lower-resolution input upconverted by the set to 1080p/60) and Smooth Motion turned off, the Vizio adds a single repeated frame to each real frame to reach 120 Hz. With Smooth Motion on, it interpolates a single added frame."

"When the Vizio plays back a 4:3 source in the 4:3 (Normal) aspect ratio setting or a letterboxed source that needs to be played in a zoom setting to fill the full width of the screen, the set can only produce a geometrically correct image when the input is 480i or 480p. When 720p, 1080i, and 1080p inputs are externally upconverted to these resolutions from standard-definition sources, they are squeezed or stretched, and no aspect ratio choice can put them right. (This is not a problem with sources that require a Full setting, such as native HD material and enhanced-for-widescreen DVDs.)"

"The Vizio landed in fourth place overall for black level and shadow detail combined, just marginally behind the LG and in front of the Toshiba. True, the Vizio did tie with the LG for second place in shadow detail. But first place was also a tie, and the spread of the scores between the first tied group of two and the second-place pair was a chasm."

"Three of the panelists saw deterioration in the setís image quality when they moved off axis. But on the positive side, others noted that the set looked much better overall with the room lights on."

"Conclusions"

"While the Vizio didnít turn in a great performance overall, remember that it is less than 75 percent of the cost of the next least expensive set in the group. I found it much more watchable than the groupís scores might suggest, and its HD video processing also handily beat out the other players in the group."

"You can do better if youíre willing to spend more, but this is a respectable set at an attractive price. And Vizio is on the cusp of interesting new models, some of which may well compete more aggressively with the other sets here in the $1,300-to-$1,500 range. Itís also about to join the parade of new local-dimming, LED-backlit sets, which should answer the black level and shadow detail issues, but at a price that might keep other manufacturers awake at night."

Click here to read the complete VIZIO 120HZ LCD review at the Home theater website

5. Toshiba 42ZV650U ($1,300):

"Sub-par contrast and black level"

"How did Toshiba put 240-Hz technology into a $1,300 set? By using a pseudo-240-Hz technique. The set has a native 120-Hz refresh rate, but this is supplemented by a scanning backlight thatís said to achieve some of the benefits of 240 Hz."

"The Toshiba can accept 1080p/24 program material. With ClearScan 240 off and a 1080p/24 input, it repeats each real frame four additional times to reach the setís 120-Hz refresh rate (5:5 pulldown). With ClearScan 240 on (and the Film Stabilization control on Smooth), some of the added frames are interpolated. In either case, the blinking of the scanning backlight creates the effect of two frames for each actual frame, approximating 240-Hz operation. With a 1080p/60 source (or any source that the set upconverts to its native 1080p resolution), a single frame (repeated or interpolated, as determined by the control settings above) is added for each real frame."

"The Toshiba came in last in both subjective and measured black level, and it also placed last in shadow detail. It did take a solid second place in color (two other sets tied for first), where its extensive color adjustments pulled it through. And its resolution landed it at a near-tie for second place with three other sets."

"But a different panelist thought the Toshiba was the worst of all the sets with the Stargate star field scene. He said he saw very little shadow detail in the deepest blacks on other material. He also thought the image fell to pieces off axis. There was also a negative comment on how the Toshiba (and the Vizio as well) lost all detail on Kongís fur in King Kong (chapter 48)."

"Conclusions"

"The panel results make it hard to be upbeat about the Toshiba. Still, there appears to be a good set in there trying to get out. Itís hard to fault the overall color qualityóor the color adjustments that can help a good calibrator get there. While the setís resolution only drew middling praise, several of the sets were tightly clustered in their scores for this category. I donít think any potential buyer will be unhappy with the Toshibaís color or resolution, particularly on mid-level and bright scenes."

"The black level and shadow detail are another matter. But as with Vizio and LG, Toshiba is now introducing sets that will use LED backlighting with local dimming to improve black level and shadow detail. They should be available by the time you read this. Such sets will not immediately filter down to this price range, but they should still be relatively affordable (at press time, the first Toshiba 46-inch LED local dimmer was priced at $2,300). Hopefully this development will answer our concerns."

Click here to read the complete Toshiba 120HZ LCD review at the Home theater website
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 07:18 AM   #2
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Jan 2007
205
Default

Quotes from the 5 judges on the Home Theater Flat Panel Face off

Click here to read the compete comments by the 5 judges in the Flat Panel Face off


Following are select quotes from Shane Buettner Editor

"Sure enough, the Panasonic plasma quickly revealed itself as the set that made every seat the best seat in the house."

"The Sonyís blacks were not only astonishing, they were better than the plasma sitting next to it. Shadow detail favored the Panasonic, and in mixed scenes with strong light and dark areas, the Panasonic showed more punch in the bright areas. But it was still neck and neck. Did someone sneak a local-dimming LCD into the mix? While the plasma still had a better pic- ture off axis, the Sonyís color fidelity was far more natural and consistent, which is entirely inconsistent with my overall experience with LCDs. To top it off, turning on even a little room light killed the plasma, while the Sony still looked awesome. Iím a kook who prioritizes nighttime movie watching, but the Sony had the better blacks with the lights out, too. So my little world was really turned upside down. Iím a plasma guy. I own a plasma. I love my plasma! But this Sony was the best of the bunch."

"Nevertheless, itís clear that the days of plasma kicking sand in LCDís face are coming to an end. Plasma has undeniable strengths, but it doesnít win a Face Off just by showing up anymore."

Following are select quotes from John Higgins, Contributor

" When we have a Face Off that mixes technologies, I always find it interesting to see how they stack up against each other. In the past, the difference between LCDs and plasmas was easily discernible, if only by the black level.
But over the past couple of years, LCDs have come so far in that regard that plasmas donít stand out as much due to black levelóespecially with the recent loss of Pioneerís KUROs."

" The Panasonic had what looked to be the best black level and shadow detail of the group. Still, when the lights were turned on, the image looked washed out, which isnít totally unexpected from a plasma display. If youíre thinking about it as your display, I recommend that you only use it in a dark room"

Following are select quotes from Claire Lloyd, Executive Editor

"... I knew beforehand that one of the sets in the test was a plasma model. I sat smugly in the Face Off, confident that the Sonyís stunning black level and shadow detail marked it as the plasma lurking in the herd of LCDs. This was the set my eye inevitably wandered back to during the dark demo clips from The Dark Knight and Stargate: The Ark of Truth."

" Naturally, I got the wind knocked out of my sails when Tom revealed the setsí identities at the end of the day. Since I was in a roomful of video experts, I refrained from blurting out the fact that Iíd misidentified the plasma. Thatís our secret. The Sonyís black level and shadow detail were remarkableóthatís all there is to it."

" In the color department, the Vizio was my initial favorite. However, after a couple of hours of its candy-coated goodness, I came to appreciate the Sonyís more realistic, natural palette."

" Overall, the Panasonic plasma came in at a very close second on my scorecard, earning just three points less than the Sony. The Panasonic handled motion admirably and had very acceptable color and shadow detail. But its black level dropped substantially when the room lights were on, and that alone was enough to lose it my first-place vote."

Following are select quotes from Debbie Stampfli, Contributor

" My favorite of the bunch was the Panasonic TC-P42G10 plasma. If I couldíve taken this home in the trunk of my car without anybody noticing, I would have. At Home Theater, the buzz is always about the deepest and darkest blacks. This HDTV ran circles around the others with its incredible blacks. A space scene from Stargate: The Ark of Truth made this screen pop. I could see stars in the vast blackness of space that didnít even exist on any of the other screens. Best of all, the Panasonic didnít lose any of its picture quality when I changed seating positions."

" My second favorite was slightly more con- troversial. While all the experts in the room seemed to dislike the Vizio VL420M LCD HDTV, I really enjoyed watching it. I have a soft spot for bright, vivid colors, and this one delivered colors that were supernaturally bright. Scenes like the crowd scene in Spider- Man literally came to life on the screen."

" Although the blacks in the Sony KDL-40V5100 LCD HDTV were excellent, the picture faded out dramatically when it was off axis. It was a deal breaker for me."

Following are select quotes from Scott Wilkinson, Contributor

" Two of the sets stood out dramatically, with deeper blacks and much better shadow detail than the other three, making this a Face Off between the Panasonic TC-P42G10 plasma and the Sony KDL-40V5100 LCD."

" Going into this, I knew that there was one plasma in the bunch, which I expected to do well in the black-level department. What surprised me was how well the Sony LCD did in that department. In fact, its blacks looked even a bit deeper than the Panasonicís. This is amazing since its backlight is a conventional CCFL, not LED with local dimming."

" Even more astonishing, the Sonyís off-axis performance on dark scenes was remarkable.Yes, the apparent black level did rise a bit, but it wasnít nearly as much as the other LCDs in the Face Off or just about any other LCD Iíve seen. On the other hand, bright scenes were totally washed out when viewed from off axis, which was very strange. Of course, the Panasonic plasmaís off-axis performance beat all the LCDs hands down."

" We did most of our viewing with the lights off, but we turned them on briefly just to see what would happen to the pictures, even though all the sets had been calibrated for a dark environment. All the LCDs, especially the LG, Toshiba, and Vizio, looked a lot better under some room light. The Panasonic plasma looked much worse, with gray blacks and a seriously washed-out image. This was a clear demonstration of why LCDs sell better than plasmas in brightly lit showrooms. Unfortunately, many LCDs that look great at the retailer donít live up to that promise once you put them in a light-controlled room."
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 12:09 PM   #3
Beta Man Beta Man is offline
Moderator
 
Beta Man's Avatar
 
Jan 2008
Juuuuuuuust A Bit Outside....
4
268
18
25
Default

I'm not sure of the model number..... but there is a Panasonic, 50" 1080p plasma for $999 at Costco right now......

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...s=3&lang=en-US



It got my attention!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 12:18 PM   #4
EvilshenaniganZ EvilshenaniganZ is offline
Active Member
 
EvilshenaniganZ's Avatar
 
Aug 2009
Thumbs up

Nice reading.. thanks
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 04:42 PM   #5
dobyblue dobyblue is offline
Super Moderator
 
dobyblue's Avatar
 
Jul 2006
Ontario, Canada
63
54
650
13
Default

No surprise that the Panny was the overall winner.
You can get the TC-P42G10 for under $1,000 now!

I've never noticed the flicker to be "unwatchable" on the G10 in 48Hz mode like some have, but I guess sitting at a normal viewing distance and actually looking at the panel helps. If you sit too close...or look a few feet off to the side, then you definitely notice it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
During the face off according to the Home Theater magazine review the Panasonic TC-P42G10 Plasma had a noticeable flicker that was so annoying to watch at 48HZ that the Panasonic display needed to be placed in the 60HZ 3:2 pulldown mode for all viewing and testing during the face off. Also the 48HZ mode greatly reduced the output brightness so it needed to be turned off to be more comparable to the brighter LCD displays. Even though the Panasonic 48HZ mode could not be used for this face off, overall the Panasonic produced the best overall picture quality even at 60HZ since it was the winner of the face off.
I can't seem to find this part in the article, can you show me where they stated this? All I could see was the following comment:

http://hometheatermag.com/flat-panel...0_plasma_hdtv/

Quote:
The set will display sources up to 1080p/60p. For 1080p/24 material, a 24p Direct selection in the menu lets you choose either 48-Hz playback (2 x 24 frames per second, with no 3:2 pulldown) or 60 Hz. In the latter mode, the set converts 24-fps sources to 60p by adding 3:2 pulldown. We used the 60-Hz setting on the Panasonic for this review, as it provided significant added brightness. It needed this to match the brightness of the other sets as closely as possible. It also eliminated an image flicker that’s visible when 24-fps sources are displayed at a 48-Hz refresh rate.


Doesn't say anything like what you've interpreted here. Are you perhaps quoting from a different review and amalgamating the two?

Last edited by dobyblue; 08-31-2009 at 05:01 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 06:23 PM   #6
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Jan 2007
205
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
I can't seem to find this part in the article, can you show me where they stated this? All I could see was the following comment:

http://hometheatermag.com/flat-panel...0_plasma_hdtv/





Doesn't say anything like what you've interpreted here. Are you perhaps quoting from a different review and amalgamating the two?
I see that Amazon has the Panasonic 48HZ TC-P42G10 for only $978.99 now. That is a great price. I also noticed that Amazon has the 50 inch TC-P50V10 with 96HZ for only $1,631.18. The second place winner in the face off the Sony KDL-40V5100 can be found at Amazon for only $917.97.

The Home Theater review mentions that for the face off the G10 needed to be placed in the 60HZ mode for two reasons. One reason is the brightness is reduced significantly in the 48HZ mode and the second reason a visible image flicker is present at 48HZ. You are correct when I used the words "so annoying", that was from my interpretation and from past reviews that mentioned the G10 was "unwatchable" at 48HZ.

Quote from CNET website on the G10 review

" The company also includes a "24p direct in" setting that's available when the TV detects a 1080p/24 source, typically from a Blu-ray Disc. As with the PZ800U and 850U models from last year, choosing the "48Hz" setting, as opposed to the standard 60Hz setting, causes the display to refresh at 48Hz to match the 24fps cadence of film. And as with last year's sets, selecting 48Hz on the G10 causes flicker--more intense in brighter areas, but visible pretty much constantly--that basically renders the image unwatchable. We don't expect any of the videophiles toward whom this setting is aimed to stand for the flicker, so we kept the G10 set to 60Hz. It's worth noting that the step-up V10 series refreshes at 96Hz, according to Panasonic, so the flicker shouldn't be a problem on those sets."

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p50g10/4505-6482_7-33497901-2.html?tag=txt;page

Quote from HD Guru website on the G10 review

" The TCP50G1 accepts 1080p/24 signals that may be displayed at 48Hz or 60 Hz. Like last yearís TH50PZ850 reviewed here, the 48 Hz rate suffers from image flicker and is deemed unwatchable. Use the 60 Hz mode."

http://hdguru.com/panasonic-tcp50g10-50-plasma-review/416/

June 2009 Home Theater magazine review link

Quote
"For 1080p/24 material, the 24p Direct In option lets you select either 24 fps (displayed at 48 fps) or 60 fps (with 3:2 pulldown added). For me, 48 fps wasnít fast enough to eliminate visible flicker on some program material. Because of this, I used the 60-Hz setting for most of the review, even with 1080p/24 sources."

http://hometheatermag.com/flat-panel...tv/index1.html

Quote from page 68 of Sound and Vision magazine June/July/August 2009 issue

"As with the Panasonic Z800-series TV that I tested last year (the TH-50PZ800U; review available online), the 46G10's image showed an objectionable degree of flicker when I engaged its 48-Hz display setting (a mode designed to reduce judder with Blu-ray Disc movies when the player's 1080p/24-format output is active). Plenty of other HDTVs can display Blu-ray content at multiplies of the formats native 1080p/24 frame rate with no problem, so it's too bad Panasonic didn't correct that issue this time out."

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hdt...nce-page2.html[
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 06:38 PM   #7
dobyblue dobyblue is offline
Super Moderator
 
dobyblue's Avatar
 
Jul 2006
Ontario, Canada
63
54
650
13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
I see that Amazon has the Panasonic 48HZ TC-P42G10 for only $978.99 now. That is a great price. I also noticed that Amazon has the 50 inch TC-P50V10 with 96HZ for only $1,631.18. The second place winner in the face off the Sony KDL-40V5100 can be found at Amazon for only $917.97.
https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3341

Now you can get the 42" G10 with a Panasonic Blu-ray player and get $200 off.

G10 = $978
BD-60 = $194.78
$200 Promo

Total for TC-P42G10 and DMP-BD60 = $973.77!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 06:44 PM   #8
Clark Kent Clark Kent is offline
Blu-ray Prince
 
Clark Kent's Avatar
 
Oct 2007
Metropolis
2
183
Default

I read that Home Theater comparison. While the methodology seemed a little questionable in certain ways, it was an interesting read.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 03:31 PM   #9
dobyblue dobyblue is offline
Super Moderator
 
dobyblue's Avatar
 
Jul 2006
Ontario, Canada
63
54
650
13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
In the September 2009 Home Theater Magazine on pages 20-36 is a very in depth article comparing 5 different brands of low cost HDTV's between $900-$1,500. This very in depth article had a panel of several professional reviewers that rated the 5 different brands of HD displays in terms of black level, shadow detail, color, resolution, value, and the ultimate final score of "OVERALL PERFORMACE".

In the Home Theater face off only 4 out of the 5 TV's were set to disable the 3:2 pulldown process since the 5th TV had a lot less brightness and a noticeable flicker issue when trying to display 1080P/24 material at multiplies of the original frame rate.

The 4 best TV's tested with the true 1080P/24 refresh rate feature turned on is the following displays:

1. Sony KDL-40V5100 LCD (Best performing LCD with true 5:5 pulldown) $1,500
2. LG 42LH40 LCD (Second best performing LCD with true 5:5 pulldown) $1,400
3. VIZIO SV420M LCD (Third best performing LCD with true 5:5 pulldown) $900
4. Toshiba 42ZV650U LCD (Fourth best performing LCD with true 5:5 pulldown) $1,300
I can't seem to find in the article where they show the results of testing these tv's in a 24Hz mode. I've looked and looked. You're clearly representing these "results" as being part of the Home Theatre Mag article, so where exactly in the article is this from? I can't find it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 06:27 PM   #10
xneox xneox is offline
Expert Member
 
Jan 2009
Hartford, CT
Default

I watched my last three BDs in 48Hz mode by choice. In a dark room, and for some movies, I really like the effect, and the depth it seems to add to the overall picture.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2009, 07:21 PM   #11
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
Blu-ray Knight
 
Jan 2007
205
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post
I can't seem to find in the article where they show the results of testing these tv's in a 24Hz mode. I've looked and looked. You're clearly representing these "results" as being part of the Home Theatre Mag article, so where exactly in the article is this from? I can't find it.
All 4 LCD screens tested were tested in the 5:5 pulldown mode since in the following quote it says he switched off the motion feature control. Doing so turns on the repeating frame method without interpolation of new frames.

"The smoothing that interpolation provides can make film-based sources look like video, and there are mixed opinions of the process, even here at Home Theater. I switched this feature off during the group test and only demonstrated it to the panel members after they had completed their ratings."

"All of the program material for the group tests was high definition, on Blu-ray Disc. I showed short clips from each of the following discs: Seven Years in Tibet, The Dark Knight, Casanova, Fly Away Home, Spider-Man, Stargate: The Ark of Truth, King Kong (2005), Mission: Impossible III, and a video-sourced excerpt from a Panasonic Viera demo disc. The selections included a roughly equal mix of bright and dark scenes. The first five of these discs were 1080p/24 and played at that rate."

Click here to read the compete Introduction to the Face off article at the Home Theater website
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2009, 11:45 AM   #12
dobyblue dobyblue is offline
Super Moderator
 
dobyblue's Avatar
 
Jul 2006
Ontario, Canada
63
54
650
13
Default

That still doesn't outline anywhere that they show test results omitting the Panasonic.
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Displays > Display Theory and Discussion

Similar Threads
thread Forum Thread Starter Replies Last Post
3D HDTV Head to Head Review - Panasonic TC-P50VT20 and Samsung UN55C7000 New Display Technologies kingofgrills 1 03-26-2010 10:00 PM
Four High-end 1080P Flat Panels Face off HEAD TO HEAD(Feb 2009 Home Theater Magazine) Display Theory and Discussion HDTV1080P 9 05-07-2009 01:53 PM
Harry Potter to go head to head with The Avengers! Movies GreenScar 29 03-12-2009 08:05 PM
Low cost Pioneer and Hitachi Plasma's with true film quality 1080P/24 refresh rates Plasma TVs HDTV1080P 2 12-04-2008 01:36 AM
1.3 HDMI Flat Panels?? Home Theater General Discussion BLu-Balls 14 06-06-2007 04:11 PM


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:20 AM.