Audio Decoding Correctly?

[BadgerFan21]

Hello,

Needing some assistance with the questions below. I just hooked up the BDP-S560 to my onkyo receiver(805), and wondering if its possible to see Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD lettering on either of the display screens for applicable Bluray movies. Before when I was watching Blurays on my PS3, I always had my receiver set on THX Cinema, due to PS3 not being able to bit stream, but hoping there are some other settings that can make this happen. Any help would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Anthony

[tilallr1]

I have a PS3 and Onkyo 705 so I have almost the exact same setup.

Unfortunately, the Fat PS3 cannot Bitstream HD Audio. Nor will it ever, due to the chip it uses. The PS3 Slim has a hardware update that can allow Bitstreaming of HD Audio. But honestly no one can tell the difference between PCM & Bitstreaming so I think you shouldn't let it worry you. Makesure however, that in the PS3 settings under HDMI audio it says PCM, or you will not get HD Audio at all. In bitstreaming mode on HDMI the PS3 will downgrade the audio to lossy and you will lose the loseless you are paying for with blu-ray. I assume you are using an HDMI cable from the PS3 to the Receiver and then a HDMI cable from the Receiver to the TV ... right?

Anyway, after you make the above changes (if you haven't already), you should see Multichannel or something like that. Then you know you got it setup right.

From the AVSForums:
1) I own a Playstation 3 and want to get the best sound possible with my Blu Ray movies what should my settings be?

Please be sure to read through Questions 1 and 2 in the "HI DEFINITION AUDIO QUESTIONS:" secrtion (above) to get a fuller understanding of how the Playstation 3 and other hi def players decode audio. I will assume you are up to speed with that information in the things I am talking about next.

For nearly all situations setting your Playstation 3 to PCM output is going to be the best setting for great HD audio. When you select PCM during movie play back your receiver will likely say Multichannel on the front display (if you didn't change listening modes). Multichannel is normal and YES, you are getting True HD and uncompressed PCM audio playback (your PS3 is doing the decoding work, not the receiver, this is why the receiver gives a generic read out.)

Turning on PCM:
To select Linear PCM on the PS3; Play a Blu Ray movie then during playback of the movie, click the "Triangle" button, then select the "AV Settings" icon from the popup menu (looks like 2 sliders), "Audio Output Options" you can select (Linear PCM) or (Bitstream).

5.1 Home Theater Setups:
If you only have a 5.1 speaker set up for your home theater you never have to change your receivers DSP to anything other then Multichannel, this will be your best setting forever on the Onkyo 705 itself. ALL Blu Ray movies are at the very minimum made for 5.1 audio. However, please note; that if you play older Standard Definition (SD) movies, it still gives you a benefit of setting your player to bitstream so you gain ability to decode Dolby Digital and DTS on your receiver.

6.1 & 7.1 Home Theater Setups:
If you own a 6.1 or 7.1 speaker setup for your home theater and you look on the back of your blu ray disc box and the movie says 5.1 channel and you want to "matrix" the audio up to 6.1 or 7.1 channels, you need to switch your DSP to something like PLIIx (anything with the x or ex monikers will do this... ex. Thx Surround EX, Dolby Digital EX and DTS ES Matrix). These will fill in those other (1 or 2) extra speakers even though the sound track is only 5.1. If you leave it on multichannel and the original track is only 5.1 it will stay at 5.1. If you have a Blu ray movie that has a soundtrack create in 6.1 or 7.1 channels (it will say on back of the box) then you may choose to leave it on multichannel and just let the original soundtrack do its job filling all your channels.

What format are you getting? How many channels?
Playstation 3 will send up to 7.1 channels of audio over hdmi. Your receiver is never going to tell you this is happening. The only way you will know is if you click info on the PS3 you will see what kind of audio it is decoding internally. To find out what audio format and how many channels your PS3 is decoding click the "Select" button during movie playback, at the top you will see what its doing. (Ex. Dolby TrueHD 7.1 Ch. 48Hz 4.5 Mbps)

DTS HD Master Audio & the Playstation 3:
UPDATE: As of Playstation 3 firmware version 2.30 which is out now, the PS3 can internally decode DTS HD MA tracks and this is no longer an inconvenience for PS3 owners.

Now that the PS3 can internally decode DTS HD MA you want to keep your ps3 set to Linear PCM for best hi def audio quality of this format.

DTS Core (The "Lossy" DTS signal PS3 owners get if you set your player to bitstream):
At the heart of DTS HD Master Audio signal is an additional DTS Surround Sound Core track, this is the lossy version you are hearing when you play back DTS MA movies on your Playstation 3 using bitstream. DTS Core is actually very similar to the old school standard DTS signal (only up to 1.5 Mbps max). This is a far cry from the bandwidth of the Hi Def audio formats. DTS Core is also limited to a maximum of 6.1 channels only so you can't get 7.1 channel playback when DTS Core is in effect. Your forced to use your receiver to matrix that extra channel up to 7.1. Before the DTS HD MA patch on the ps3 this used to be what we heard all the time for dts hd ma movies. Now just be sure to keep you ps3 set to linear pcm output to get the hi def full version of dts hd ma track.

For more information on DTS Core please visit this link http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/bett...d-tomorrow.php

2) Why won't my Playstation 3 allow my receiver to decode HD audio formats for me? Will it ever be able to?

Please be sure to read through Questions 1 and 2 in the "HI DEFINITION AUDIO QUESTIONS:" section above as well as the question preceding this one. You will need to have an advanced understanding of bitstream vs lossless bitsream vs PCM, also how HD audio formats getting decoded in the player vs the receiver.

Even though Playstation 3 is HDMI 1.3 device it doesn't mean its privy to the full list of 1.3a spec of capabilities. Sony cut a very early deal for a proprietary version of the Silicon Image Vastlane chipset (the 9132). The Vastlane chipset is the brain of HD audio and HD video used among many companies. After the PS3 came out Silicon Image released a (possibly revised) public version of that chipset used in Ps3, this newer chipset is the Vastlane 9134. These latest versions are used for players such as Toshiba A35 and Samsung BDP1400. Even to this day a year later, the new ps3's still use the older proprietary 9132 model.

The PS3 was the 1st 1.3 hdmi kid on the block. The Vastlane 9132 chip was made proprietary for Sony to use in the PS3 and is not sold to the public (other companies). Also, its "official" specs are not listed for the public on any known website. However, If you read the financial report from Silicon Image from the time frame (google this) when the playstation 3 came out you see the Ps3 chipset listed with specs (simple specs, but specs never the less). These specs do not mention handling of the latest HD audio formats at all.

To the best of anyones knowledge here on AVS forums and around the net this is the breakdown of this series of Vastlane Chips

SI Vastline 9132: (Gaming Transmitter) Supports Deep Color but not the latest high-quality audio formats.
SI Vastline 9133: (Dual Input Receiver) Enables HDTV's to display Deep Color but does not support the latest high-quality audio formats.
SI Vastline 9134: (Dual Input Transmitter) Same abilities as the 9133 with additional support for the latest high-quality audio formats.

Here are screenshots of a PS3 ripped apart showing the 9132 chipset http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost....4&postcount=46

The SI Vastlane 9134 is whats getting used in these new players (like BDP1400 for example) Here is a screenshot of the Samsung BDP 1400's Vastlane chip http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost....9&postcount=32 as you can see its a 9134.

So does this all mean PS3 can NEVER output lossless bitstream audio?

No one can definitively say Ps3 will or wont be able give us lossless bitstreaming in the future all we know is right now it Can't. Also, there are not even the least bit of rumors from sony that it will ever be able to.

The firmware debate:
If Sil 9132 can't do lossless bitstreaming due to hardware limitations there is much debate is out there over whether or not ps3 can be firmware/software patched to reprogram the Silicon Image vastlane 9132. Honestly, no one knows. If Sony can find some slick software approach to get around this who knows (which no one is even sure is possible with this kinda of chip). I am sure it would require a lot of time and effort and why would Sony invest all that money when the general public doesn't even know about HD audio formats much less wanting to allow your receiver to decode them vs the player. This is a confusing topics for seasoned pros much less the general consumer.

The hardware debate:
Some users argue that sony could simply install a 9134 in the latest units if the old 9132 couldn't do lossless bitstream. They conclude that since they don't install the 9134 in the newest ps3's, then the 9132 must be able to do lossless bitstream. Thats quite a leap in logical thinking as to why sony isn't updating that chip. First, I dont think sony has a marketing requirement to allow users to have lossless bitstreaming its not a major selling point of the PS3. Also there could be other factors; It's possible the 9134 may not even be usable in the ps3 in the same was the 9132 is being used. If that was the case, Sony would have to contract out the development of an entirely new and updated chipset from Silicon Image. This would cost so much I am sure the cons out weight the benefits.

My thoughts on all this are; if the SI 9132 had functionality and it was there to turn on, then we would likely already have it. Especially, when they enabled bitstream output in that patch few months back. That combined with the 9132's early release, I got a strong hunch that chip simply can not do it. I would say that if we don't see lossless audio bitstreaming come with the patch that gives us DTS HD MA decoding, we likely will never see it. But still, no rumors of lossless bitstream. (Update: The 2.30 DTS HD MA audio firmware is now out.. and still no sign of a lossless bitstream being made available on the PS3) If there isn't a huge demand for lossless bitstreaming why ever invest the manpower to figure it out.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=935808

[BadgerFan21]

wow, thank you for all the info, will go back and make sure to check all my settings. Also I am no longer using my PS3 to watch blu rays, it was getting way too loud and sounding like it was going to explode to I purchased the BDP-S560 to give it a rest. Oh yeah, I am using all HDMI cables as well.

One more thing, I was going through my Onkyo Reciever manual and was looking at the display part. there is one that says Digital Plus TrueHD, do you know how to get that to light up on the reciever when watching TruHD movies, and light up the other one (Express HD MSTR) as well for DTS-HD movies?


Thanks again...

[crackinhedz]

set your player to Direct.

[BadgerFan21]

I changed it to direct, but it still didnt light up. Is there anything else I need to do, once its on Direct?? PCM is showing up too, does that need to be switched as well?? sorry for all the questions, still new in the audio game.

[crackinhedz]

In your Onkyo settings you should have HDMI Audio Out = Off.

[BadgerFan21]

Checked my reciever and HDMI audio out is off. Do I need to change anything on my blu ray player(Sony BDP-S560)??

[crackinhedz]

Audio Output Priority = HDMI
Audio (HDMI) = Auto
BD Audio Settings = Direct
Audio DRC = Wide

[ss10zidane]

make sure audio out on the receiver is set to amp only

[crackinhedz]

are you selecting TrueHD or Dts-HD MA from the movie itself??



...you might also just have a bad cable? (last option)

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by ss10zidane

make sure audio out on the receiver is set to amp only

the 805 doesn't use that setting...its HDMI Audio Out = On / Off

[BadgerFan21]

I change the BD auto setting to Direct and it was making a constant buzzing noise?? yes, the current movie I'm trying to watch is DolbyTruHD, so i made sure that was selected.

I have been watching all my movies in THX Cinema but with the TruHD and DTS-MSTR not being displayed am I not getting the full effect?? In a perfect world those should be lighting up, correct??

[BadgerFan21]

It worked!! TruHD is lighting up now on the display, and actually says Dolby TruHD. But when I was at the menu screen on Sony S560 blu ray player, it was buzzing still???? I don't think that is normal???

Thanks again for all your help. Movie watching experience will be totally different now.

[crackinhedz]

The buzz might be a ground loop issue?

do you have your components connected through a Power Center or directly from the wall?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by BadgerFan21

It worked!! TruHD is lighting up now on the display, and actually says Dolby TruHD. But when I was at the menu screen on Sony S560 blu ray player, it was buzzing still???? I don't think that is normal???

Thanks again for all your help. Movie watching experience will be totally different now.

You may have a ground loop problem. Read The Ground Hum and Ground Loop Isolators thread.

[BadgerFan21]

I'm using an old power strip surge protector at the moment, but sounds like I need to get one of those power conditioners.

[tilallr1]

Originally Posted by BadgerFan21

I'm using an old power strip surge protector at the moment, but sounds like I need to get one of those power conditioners.

Not necessarily. I have 2 and still got the ground loop issue. With me it was the coaxial cable line causing it. Had to ground it at the juction box. Ground loop issue gone. Others I have heard are related to cable problems or HDMI cable touching power. Try messing around with the cables and make sure none are touching. Also, unplug the coaxial cable from your TV and box and see if the problem goes away. Took me a couple of days to find that solution. Thank God for the Internet.