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Old 01-24-2020, 03:58 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Hardback247 View Post
Stop scapegoating her like you all did with George.
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:50 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by HockeySlasher View Post
2 movies that made over 1 billion each...
The one point that gets missed the most about the Star Wars movies and box office is that everyone just focuses on the grosses. The grosses exceeding $1 billion is a great indicator of continued interest in the franchise as also indicated by the success of the Mandalorian. The continually reducing grosses do point to diminishing interest in the Disney sequel trilogy, this cannot be debated. The production and marketing costs for these movies were very high demanding a very high gross just to even break even. At the end of the day what matters is the net return (bottom line) the movies produce for the company. TROS will produce a modest return on the significant investment to produce and market this film but the relatively small return would be considered a disappointment to shareholders, it is not a flop but it is not a financial hit. Keep in mind that the one cost that is also not being considered is the purchase price of Lucasfilm. Disney admits that it overpaid slightly to get Lucasfilm. You have to believe that the purchase price was largely based on the ability to produce several films that consistently gross near a billion dollars with reasonable production costs (both TLJ and TROS had very high production costs). TFA was a massive success followed by another success with Rogue One. TLJ however saw the returns diminish significantly followed by the financial disaster of Solo (a movie I personally thought was great). This led to all of the tinkering with TROS as Disney needed this to reverse the trend started by TLJ. It failed and continued the downward trend which puts further pressure on Disney to "payback" the investment in Lucasfilm. Toy sales and other merchandise for Star Wars have plummeted since TLJ again hindering Disney from recouping its investment in Lucasfilm. Overall, at this point in time, Disney has not received the bottom line financial benefits it expected from Star Wars and the handling of the sequel trilogy has everything do with that.
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:52 PM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeySlasher View Post
I'm not saying BO numbers are the end-all-be-all, but, if you're a shareholder and the studio brought in 2 billion dollar movies, i'm not complaining.

Kennedy serves Iger and the Board who ultimately serve the shareholders. People can argue that isn't how it should be - it should be about the art/story/process, but at the end of the day, currently, it isn't.

Oh, and for the record, during their original run, the original trilogy also had diminishing returns. RoTJ made less than ESB, which made less than ANH.

So maybe, KK was following the same model.
Empire's budget was $23m, and made $548m.

Jedi's budget was c$40m, and made $475m.

TROS budget was $275m and has made just over $1b so far.

Factor in the marketing costs, which in relative terms would have been far less during the OT, and the profitability of those movies, and these movies, is in stark contrast.

Bringing in $1b is great, but less great when they've shelled out at least half that on production and marketing.
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Old 01-24-2020, 05:03 PM   #304
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Disney cannot competently handle the Star Wars franchise. Plain and simple.
Give them some credit. At least now they're making these changes BEFORE production.
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Old 01-24-2020, 05:38 PM   #305
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I feel like they've handled Star Wars fine. They've released three episodic films, two of which are critically acclaimed, and all have done pretty well at the box office. One film (Rogue One) which many consider to be one of the best Star Wars films made, and one (Solo) that many still liked, but flopped.

On the television side, there's The Mandalorian, which seems to be a complete success for Disney, both in terms of critics, and audience reception, but also in terms of getting people to join Disney+. And going forward, they're creating another season of The Clone Wars, which is a huge crowd-pleaser.

Their handling of SW is far from the failure that many seem to be claiming. I think their biggest mistake to date was not planning out the trilogy completely ahead of time, which led to huge tonal inconsistencies, and too much course correcting between films, I just want to say that It's not really surprising that some of the biggest complainers here have historically been the most negative about Disney in general.
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Old 01-24-2020, 05:51 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CouncilSpectre View Post
Empire's budget was $23m, and made $548m.

Jedi's budget was c$40m, and made $475m.

TROS budget was $275m and has made just over $1b so far.

Factor in the marketing costs, which in relative terms would have been far less during the OT, and the profitability of those movies, and these movies, is in stark contrast.

Bringing in $1b is great, but less great when they've shelled out at least half that on production and marketing.
Yeah, here's what every movie made worldwide times their production budget:

A New Hope: 70.5x
Empire Strikes Back: 23.8x
Return of the Jedi: 14.6x
The Phantom Menace: 8.9x
Revenge of the Sith: 7.4x
The Force Awakens: 6.8x
The Last Jedi: 6.7x
Attack of the Clones: 5.7x
Rogue One: 5.3x
Rise of Skywalker: 3.7x
Solo: 1.4x
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Old 01-24-2020, 05:51 PM   #307
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Wouldn't call it a failure either, but the seemingly endless behind-the-scenes shuffles are at the very least amusing, if not outright concerning.
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Old 01-24-2020, 06:09 PM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdittmer View Post
The one point that gets missed the most about the Star Wars movies and box office is that everyone just focuses on the grosses. The grosses exceeding $1 billion is a great indicator of continued interest in the franchise as also indicated by the success of the Mandalorian. The continually reducing grosses do point to diminishing interest in the Disney sequel trilogy, this cannot be debated. The production and marketing costs for these movies were very high demanding a very high gross just to even break even. At the end of the day what matters is the net return (bottom line) the movies produce for the company. TROS will produce a modest return on the significant investment to produce and market this film but the relatively small return would be considered a disappointment to shareholders, it is not a flop but it is not a financial hit. Keep in mind that the one cost that is also not being considered is the purchase price of Lucasfilm. Disney admits that it overpaid slightly to get Lucasfilm. You have to believe that the purchase price was largely based on the ability to produce several films that consistently gross near a billion dollars with reasonable production costs (both TLJ and TROS had very high production costs). TFA was a massive success followed by another success with Rogue One. TLJ however saw the returns diminish significantly followed by the financial disaster of Solo (a movie I personally thought was great). This led to all of the tinkering with TROS as Disney needed this to reverse the trend started by TLJ. It failed and continued the downward trend which puts further pressure on Disney to "payback" the investment in Lucasfilm. Toy sales and other merchandise for Star Wars have plummeted since TLJ again hindering Disney from recouping its investment in Lucasfilm. Overall, at this point in time, Disney has not received the bottom line financial benefits it expected from Star Wars and the handling of the sequel trilogy has everything do with that.
I'm not going to argue with many of your points, but, remember, Disney has also incorporated Star Wars into their parks (at a considerable upfront cost) but, that also has to be taken into account.
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Old 01-24-2020, 07:55 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeySlasher View Post
2 movies that made over 1 billion each...
It's a Star Wars movie. It's near guaranteed to be a money maker. That isn't an accomplishment.
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Old 01-24-2020, 08:32 PM   #310
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SW doesn't live or die by each film that's released. As long as people still love the universe, it can handle some bumps in the road. I don't think even the negative reactions to TROS are hurting the franchise overall, but if the movies and shows deliver that kind of reaction a few times in a row there might be trouble. It would take a lot for people to turn their backs on SW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MifuneFan View Post
Their handling of SW is far from the failure that many seem to be claiming. I think their biggest mistake to date was not planning out the trilogy completely ahead of time, which led to huge tonal inconsistencies, and too much course correcting between films
Agreed. I don't know if they just wanted to get a new SW film out ASAP with TFA, or if they didn't want to commit to an approach for the entire trilogy if the 1st or 2nd films received criticism. But I'm surprised they didn't map out the whole trilogy in advance.
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Old 01-24-2020, 08:55 PM   #311
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Yes, because itís Disney, because itís Star Wars, because itís Lucasfilm and Kathleen Kennedy, all of this has been blown out of proportion as usual.

Thereís really no behind the scenes drama. And frankly, Iíd rather them take their time if itís to be ďpushed back.Ē Itís better to reassess the scripts/story instead of rushing through production.
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Old 01-24-2020, 10:12 PM   #312
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvv8DXQq-sc
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Old 01-25-2020, 11:55 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by ArrestedDevelopment View Post
Disney cannot competently handle the Star Wars franchise. Plain and simple.
It's looking more and more like Rogue One and Mandalorian are flukes.

This kind of stuff, what's happening with Obi-Wan, is pretty normal really, but that it continually happens and is more pronounced than usual, affecting the films, is not a good sign of quality leadership at Lucasfilm.
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Old 01-25-2020, 12:36 PM   #314
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It just adds to the image of Lucasfilm being chaotic, badly run, and a place to be avoided by top talent (or any professional who has has a choice of working there or elsewhere).
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Old 01-25-2020, 01:13 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by CreasyBear View Post
It's looking more and more like Rogue One and Mandalorian are flukes.

This kind of stuff, what's happening with Obi-Wan, is pretty normal really, but that it continually happens and is more pronounced than usual, affecting the films, is not a good sign of quality leadership at Lucasfilm.
plain and simple Kathleen Kennedy and bob iger are ignoramuses and if were talking about the marvel side of things as well kevin feige is a train wreak too
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Old 01-25-2020, 03:13 PM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CreasyBear View Post
It's looking more and more like Rogue One and Mandalorian are flukes.

This kind of stuff, what's happening with Obi-Wan, is pretty normal really, but that it continually happens and is more pronounced than usual, affecting the films, is not a good sign of quality leadership at Lucasfilm.
Rogue One had lots of problems. Mandalorian is a fluke. That's the only Fluke you're looking for.
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Old 01-25-2020, 03:13 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by imsounoriginal View Post
Give them some credit. At least now they're making these changes BEFORE production.
Lolololol only took 5 movies and a tv show to get there *facepalm*
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Old 01-25-2020, 04:30 PM   #318
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I just showed the last few posts to a few friends at the gym, I canít repeat they said but needless to say there was plenty laughter going on. I just wonder if you lot realise just how ridiculous your posts come across.
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Old 01-25-2020, 04:41 PM   #319
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I just showed the last few posts to a few friends at the gym, I canít repeat they said but needless to say there was plenty laughter going on. I just wonder if you lot realise just how ridiculous your posts come across.
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Old 01-25-2020, 04:44 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by Josep5349 View Post
I just showed the last few posts to a few friends at the gym, I canít repeat they said but needless to say there was plenty laughter going on. I just wonder if you lot realise just how ridiculous your posts come across.
Weird flex, but okay.
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