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Old 05-14-2017, 07:16 PM   #1
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Default Thoughts on Acoustic panel/bass trap placement.

One of the last steps in my HT (chronicled here https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=284779) is adding some Bass traps and Acoustic panels. My room is not real conducive to a nice balanced approach for panel placement. Everything is where it needs to be, and basically are not relocatable. The rack throws the biggest monkey wrench in. But at least it is a decent diffuser, that is partly why I put the plant in the right corner, to balance the rack out (at least a little). The left side of the room is well curtained and open over the stairs. No real place to put any panels.

My thoughts are a superchunk bass trap in front right corner, and 4 panels along open right side wall. That wall reflects a lot more than the left side and throws imaging off a bit. I am not sure if I need anything in the back right corner, being as the angled bookcase acts a diffuser and kind of blocks off the corner. I could put a bass trap behind it, if anyone thinks that would do anything. I am going to put 2 acoustic panels on wall just right of the book case. There is no place for a bass trap in left rear corner, but I am going to put 2 panels on adjacent short rear wall between doors. I am not planning on any ceiling mounted panels. I could also put a small(ish) Bass trap in the corner above the rack.




Stairs



back left corner



I am no expert on these, but I would think putting 8-10 panels where I can, and a few base traps should tame reflections fairly well. Let me know you thoughts.

Thanks.

Last edited by brad1138; 05-14-2017 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 05-15-2017, 01:30 AM   #2
xylem xylem is offline
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You need to play the mirror trick :-)
to find the first point of reflection of your speakers, then place the panels!
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Old 05-15-2017, 04:25 AM   #3
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xylem View Post
You need to play the mirror trick :-)
to find the first point of reflection of your speakers, then place the panels!
Yeah, I know that part, but it is also to absorb in general. I guess the bigger question was the bass trap placement, and I am kind of limited there. I only have a few places to put them. I will probably do the front right, a small one top front left, and one behind the bookcase. I plan on doing 4" panels in the back left which will be a bit like a bass trap in that corner.
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Old 05-16-2017, 02:00 PM   #4
xylem xylem is offline
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All corners are usually a good place to start with the bass trap, even the ceiling corner (triangle shape for the corner).
Also, use more dense material for the bass trap, 8 lb for example
Acoustic panels for the side should be 3 to 6 lb, this is "best practice", but anything is better than nothing.
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Old 05-16-2017, 11:41 PM   #5
gotmule gotmule is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad1138 View Post
Yeah, I know that part, but it is also to absorb in general. I guess the bigger question was the bass trap placement, and I am kind of limited there. I only have a few places to put them. I will probably do the front right, a small one top front left, and one behind the bookcase. I plan on doing 4" panels in the back left which will be a bit like a bass trap in that corner.
That is a tough room for sure, but nice job making it work. In addition to assorted traps to help control standing waves and other gremlins, you might want to check out an outboard sub eq system to assist in flattening out your bass response. There are a couple of choices out there that do a good job and are not crazy expensive. Just an idea.

As far as the traps themselves go, I am a big fan of corner traps as they were more effective for my room, but I had the advantage of a dedicated space with 4 corners. Your plan sounds like a solid one to start, but you might need to experiment to see exactly where the panels are the most effective.

Last edited by gotmule; 05-17-2017 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:55 PM   #6
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotmule View Post
That is a tough room for sure, but nice job making it work. In addition to assorted traps to help control standing waves and other gremlins, you might want to check out an outboard sub eq system to assist in flattening out your bass response. There are a couple of choices out there that do a good job and are not crazy expensive. Just an idea.

As far as the traps themselves go, I am a big fan of corner traps as they were more effective for my room, but I had the advantage of a dedicated space with 4 corners. Your plan sounds like a solid one to start, but you might need to experiment to see exactly where the panels are the most effective.
Thanks,

My Emotiva has a 3 channel PEQ for the LFE channel, and I was able to flatten it out quite well. I don't have any real sub related anomalies I am trying to fix, but bass traps are supposed to be good, I figured they couldn't hurt. I also thought they, along with the panels, might lower the bass radiating from the house (at least a little). I only have 1 neighbor who can hear my subs, and they have never complained, but I would like to do what I can. I went outside with Ironman playing at volume, and I could hear the outside wall, the right side wall of the HT, vibrating... and of course hear the bass too.

On a tangent, I did use the PEQ to lower the bass 3 dB @ 20 Hz with a 1/2 octave Q, so it basically only affects below 30 Hz. Most can't hear that anyway, but my walls vibrate so much(with bass heavy movies) if I don't do that, it is distracting...

Last edited by brad1138; 05-18-2017 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:03 AM   #7
gotmule gotmule is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad1138 View Post
Thanks,

My Emotiva has a 3 channel PEQ for the LFE channel, and I was able to flatten it out quite well. I don't have any real sub related anomalies I am trying to fix, but bass traps are supposed to be good, I figured they couldn't hurt. I also thought they, along with the panels, might lower the bass radiating from the house (at least a little). I only have 1 neighbor who can hear my subs, and they have never complained, but I would like to do what I can. I went outside with Ironman playing at volume, and I could hear the outside wall, the right side wall of the HT, vibrating... and of course hear the bass too.

On a tangent, I did use the PEQ to lower the bass 3 dB @ 20 Hz with a 1/2 octave Q, so it basically only affects below 30 Hz. Most can't hear that anyway, but my walls vibrate so much(with bass heavy movies) if I don't do that, it is distracting...
Well played...

I have been on missions of chasing the vibration in the room as well, as you are certainly right about it being distracting. I even went through 3 different door handles to finally get one that stayed quiet.
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:03 AM   #8
gotmule gotmule is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad1138 View Post
Thanks,

My Emotiva has a 3 channel PEQ for the LFE channel, and I was able to flatten it out quite well. I don't have any real sub related anomalies I am trying to fix, but bass traps are supposed to be good, I figured they couldn't hurt. I also thought they, along with the panels, might lower the bass radiating from the house (at least a little). I only have 1 neighbor who can hear my subs, and they have never complained, but I would like to do what I can. I went outside with Ironman playing at volume, and I could hear the outside wall, the right side wall of the HT, vibrating... and of course hear the bass too.

On a tangent, I did use the PEQ to lower the bass 3 dB @ 20 Hz with a 1/2 octave Q, so it basically only affects below 30 Hz. Most can't hear that anyway, but my walls vibrate so much(with bass heavy movies) if I don't do that, it is distracting...
Well played...

I have been on missions of chasing the vibration in the room as well, as you are certainly right about it being distracting. I even went through 3 different door handles to finally get one that stayed quiet.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:13 PM   #9
xylem xylem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad1138 View Post
Thanks,

My Emotiva has a 3 channel PEQ for the LFE channel, and I was able to flatten it out quite well. I don't have any real sub related anomalies I am trying to fix, but bass traps are supposed to be good, I figured they couldn't hurt. I also thought they, along with the panels, might lower the bass radiating from the house (at least a little). I only have 1 neighbor who can hear my subs, and they have never complained, but I would like to do what I can. I went outside with Ironman playing at volume, and I could hear the outside wall, the right side wall of the HT, vibrating... and of course hear the bass too.

On a tangent, I did use the PEQ to lower the bass 3 dB @ 20 Hz with a 1/2 octave Q, so it basically only affects below 30 Hz. Most can't hear that anyway, but my walls vibrate so much(with bass heavy movies) if I don't do that, it is distracting...
Pretty neat! Make sure you get higher density material for the bass panel, usually 8lb. I am doing something similar with my little space, adding panels with higher density for bass control.
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Old 05-20-2017, 09:30 AM   #10
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Pretty neat! Make sure you get higher density material for the bass panel, usually 8lb. I am doing something similar with my little space, adding panels with higher density for bass control.
I gave up trying to find it in stock locally and ordered some through Amazon. I went with 2 6packs of Roxul Rockboard 60. I am also going to buy "Roxul Safe'n'sound" which is rated very good for bass traps, and available at Lowes/Home Depot.

It is correct that in 2" thick panels, 80 is best, but in 4" thick, or "Super chunk" Corner bass traps, less dense is actually better. I am going to double up a few of the panels to make 4" thick. It should be here in about 1 week.
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Old 05-20-2017, 03:10 PM   #11
xylem xylem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad1138 View Post
I gave up trying to find it in stock locally and ordered some through Amazon. I went with 2 6packs of Roxul Rockboard 60. I am also going to buy "Roxul Safe'n'sound" which is rated very good for bass traps, and available at Lowes/Home Depot.

It is correct that in 2" thick panels, 80 is best, but in 4" thick, or "Super chunk" Corner bass traps, less dense is actually better. I am going to double up a few of the panels to make 4" thick. It should be here in about 1 week.
The actual theory, Xtrem ScienceXXX, rocket SpaceShip interGalactic agreement is:
For higher frequency, for example, voice blahblabbla thing, lower density is better, 4lb, 6lb is good.
For lower frequency, bass, subw00f@r, higher density, 8lb is better.

Now about thickness, 2inch, 4inch...
The minimum and most usual set up it 2inch thick for wall panels, 2 to 4.
For bass trap, we are more around 4, 6, 8inch,...

Sounds, echos, ..., problems are usually from the higher audible frequencies.
Denser products will reflect the higher frequencies instead of absorb them.

Also, important point for panels, allow an airgap in between your panels and the wall, see the theory with the below pic.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg absorption.jpg (21.8 KB, 132 views)
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Old 06-13-2017, 02:58 AM   #12
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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Anyone have any thoughts on if it would be necessary or beneficial to put some roxul behind the bookcase?(for bass trapping) The book case has that standard 1/16" cheap cardboard like backing, but with the movies in it, not sure if would be a waste of Roxul to put some behind it. I plan on putting a smallish trap above it, in the corner.


Last edited by brad1138; 06-13-2017 at 03:44 AM.
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Old 06-14-2017, 02:56 AM   #13
xylem xylem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad1138 View Post
Anyone have any thoughts on if it would be necessary or beneficial to put some roxul behind the bookcase?(for bass trapping) The book case has that standard 1/16" cheap cardboard like backing, but with the movies in it, not sure if would be a waste of Roxul to put some behind it. I plan on putting a smallish trap above it, in the corner.

I honestly don't know.
From the basic sound waves, your bookshelf will reflect some and bounce, "attenuate" some in all direction.
For the lower frequency, I don't know, I would think (without having done proper research on it), bass trap can potential be useful behind (dead spot?)...

Question, how did you hook up your panels? Z clip? spacer? picture hanger? mind sharing some pic?
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Old 06-14-2017, 03:54 AM   #14
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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I honestly don't know.
From the basic sound waves, your bookshelf will reflect some and bounce, "attenuate" some in all direction.
For the lower frequency, I don't know, I would think (without having done proper research on it), bass trap can potential be useful behind (dead spot?)...

Question, how did you hook up your panels? Z clip? spacer? picture hanger? mind sharing some pic?
Just some heavy duty picture hanger clips I found at Michaels, and 4 felt pads at the corners to protect wall and keep an even spacing. The design of the frame created about a 1" space between the Roxul and the wall.

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Old 06-14-2017, 03:57 AM   #15
brad1138 brad1138 is offline
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I think I am going to run a Bass trap up the wall behind the bookcase, I have an idea about a cheap way to make them I am starting a new thread on just now.
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Old 07-07-2017, 06:37 AM   #16
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Bought some new CDs and had more time to listen to the new and old. 1st, Steely Dan's Aja is an awesome album, 2nd I am even more impressed with the improvements the panels/traps made. Everything is so much more distinct and accurate. Especially the bass, which is much more tangible. I have to listen to my entire library over again to reassess it, everything sounds so much better and "right".

I did put a little Safe and Sound behind the bookcase. All the rattling I originally had with "bassy" surround movies is gone after installng all the bass traps.

When I have time, I'll fix Photobucket pix issue in OP....
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:08 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad1138 View Post
Bought some new CDs and had more time to listen to the new and old. 1st, Steely Dan's Aja is an awesome album, 2nd I am even more impressed with the improvements the panels/traps made. Everything is so much more distinct and accurate. Especially the bass, which is much more tangible. I have to listen to my entire library over again to reassess it, everything sounds so much better and "right".

I did put a little Safe and Sound behind the bookcase. All the rattling I originally had with "bassy" surround movies is gone after installng all the bass traps.

When I have time, I'll fix Photobucket pix issue in OP....
Nice job conquering the room! And yes, Aja is an outstanding album. Always a go to piece of vinyl for me.
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Old 09-30-2019, 06:06 AM   #18
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Default Re: Thoughts on Acoustic panel/bass trap placement

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