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Old 07-18-2021, 04:15 PM   #41
Steedeel Steedeel is offline
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https://www.andystout.work/home/all-...ct-based-media

https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/object-based-media

Last edited by Steedeel; 07-18-2021 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 07-18-2021, 04:24 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steedeel View Post
Where was the evidence that people would embrace colour films? Two strip technicolour was actually disliked by audiences who wanted to return to Black And White. Studios complied and it was only when true technicolour came that they changed their minds. You are asking me to prove that a future tech will be successful and that is impossible.
However, if it implemented as a broadcast/streaming distribution system, it’s here to stay.
There was plenty of evidence that people wanted color movies from box office receipts to people buying color TVs; you are being ridiculous...again.

I am asking you to show examples of OBB being offered, six years later than the article cited in your OP, and of consumer interest in it. You are the one making the huge claim that OBB will be as big as color was to movies and as big as DVDs were to home video; back it up or it will remain just another one of your many silly predictions like people abandoning their TVs entirely in favor of their phones. Your predictions have a lousy track record... and yes we already know that's because they haven't happened yet.

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Old 07-18-2021, 04:27 PM   #43
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You are just regurgitating what OBB is; none of this shows it to be the vastly popular scourge that will ruin our shared movie viewing experiences that you so greatly fear. Fear is what most of your predictions have in common, some new thing will ruin some existing thing that you love; it is a recurring theme among your prognostications.
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Old 07-18-2021, 04:33 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
There was plenty of evidence that people wanted color movies from box office receipts to people buying color TVs; you are being ridiculous...again.

I am asking you to show examples of OBB being offered, six years later than your OP cited article no less, and of consumer interest in it. You are the one making the huge claim that OBB will be as big as color was to movies and as big as DVDs were to home video; back it up or it will remain just another one of your many baseless silly predictions like people abandoning their TVs entirely in favor of their phones. Your predictions have a lousy track record... and yes we already know that's because they haven't happened yet.
Not in the early days. Two strip Technicolour flopped.
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Old 07-18-2021, 05:51 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steedeel View Post
Not in the early days. Two strip Technicolour flopped.
It was called Two Color Technicolor Process 2 and Process 3. It did not flop. It gave way to Three Strip Technicolor (Process 4) which is still the best color film process ever invented.

What hampered the growth of color film was the Great Depression and then WWII.
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Old 07-18-2021, 06:08 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart View Post
It was called Two Color Technicolor Process 2 and Process 3. It did not flop. It gave way to Three Strip Technicolor (Process 4) which is still the best color film process ever invented.

What hampered the growth of color film was the Great Depression and then WWII.
I only felt that the two color process was a "flop" in the sense that it just didn't look that good, but it may well have looked amazing for its time. Clearly, people enjoyed and wanted more color movies.

I can't say whether or not the three color strip process is the best process ever invented, but it sure produced some impressive results and people loved them then as they do now.
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Old 07-18-2021, 06:28 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart View Post
It was called Two Color Technicolor Process 2 and Process 3. It did not flop. It gave way to Three Strip Technicolor (Process 4) which is still the best color film process ever invented.

What hampered the growth of color film was the Great Depression and then WWII.
Itís well documented that audiences didnít approve.
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Old 07-18-2021, 06:43 PM   #48
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It’s well documented that audiences didn’t approve.
If it is "well documented" then you should have no trouble providing us with some documentation.

Just from a precursory look at the history of Technicolor Process 2 Wikipedia said this:

"The Toll of the Sea, which debuted on November 26, 1922, used Process 2 and was the first general-release film in Technicolor.

The second all-color feature in Process 2 Technicolor, Wanderer of the Wasteland, was released in 1924. Process 2 was also used for color sequences in such major motion pictures as The Ten Commandments (1923), The Phantom of the Opera (1925), and Ben-Hur (1925). Douglas Fairbanks' The Black Pirate (1926) was the third all-color Process 2 feature.

Although successful commercially, Process 2 was plagued with technical problems."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technicolor

Pretty hard to be successful commercially if "audiences didn't approve." And audiences very much approved of many of the movies mentioned in that quote.

Process 3 movies did not come along until after the Great Depression was under way (with the exception of 1928's The Viking). Process 3 movies were met with "lukewarm" audience reception, but that may have had more to do with the economic distress of the time and the mostly unremarkable movies made with Process 3. Excluding The Viking, comparing the list of movies made in Process 3 to those made in Process 2 and you will quickly see that there were no epic movies like The Ten Commandments or Ben Hur among them.

Last edited by Vilya; 07-18-2021 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 07-18-2021, 06:49 PM   #49
Lee A Stewart Lee A Stewart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
I only felt that the two color process was a "flop" in the sense that it just didn't look that good, but it may well have looked amazing for its time. Clearly, people enjoyed and wanted more color movies.
You are judging the image quality against future inventions like 3 Strip Technicolor and Eastman Color. So of course it will look inferior. This was the first time audiences would see color on a screen so to them, it really was amazing. It lasted from the early 1920s until the early 1930s: 10 years. That's how long it took Technicolor to not only invent 3 Strip but also the camera and projector companies to make the hardware to capture and show it. 3 Strip lasted 20 years: 1935 - 1955 which is when Kodak released Eastman Color (AKA: Warner Color)

Quote:
I can't say whether or not the three color strip process is the best process ever invented, but it sure produced some impressive results and people loved them then as they do now.
Eastman Color did not have the inky blacks nor the full range of colors of 3 Strip Technicolor, but it was a fraction of the cost of 3 Strip Technicolor to capture and project. Kodak also invented Eastman Internegative Color film which was used to make prints. 3 Strip went from the Camera Negative to Print so the MTF (resolution loss) was very small. EIC added another step away from the Camera Negative reducing the resolution due to MTF (Modulation Transfer Function)
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Old 07-18-2021, 09:25 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
If it is "well documented" then you should have no trouble providing us with some documentation.

Just from a precursory look at the history of Technicolor Process 2 Wikipedia said this:

"The Toll of the Sea, which debuted on November 26, 1922, used Process 2 and was the first general-release film in Technicolor.

The second all-color feature in Process 2 Technicolor, Wanderer of the Wasteland, was released in 1924. Process 2 was also used for color sequences in such major motion pictures as The Ten Commandments (1923), The Phantom of the Opera (1925), and Ben-Hur (1925). Douglas Fairbanks' The Black Pirate (1926) was the third all-color Process 2 feature.

Although successful commercially, Process 2 was plagued with technical problems."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technicolor

Pretty hard to be successful commercially if "audiences didn't approve." And audiences very much approved of many of the movies mentioned in that quote.

Process 3 movies did not come along until after the Great Depression was under way (with the exception of 1928's The Viking). Process 3 movies were met with "lukewarm" audience reception, but that may have had more to do with the economic distress of the time and the mostly unremarkable movies made with Process 3. Excluding The Viking, comparing the list of movies made in Process 3 to those made in Process 2 and you will quickly see that there were no epic movies like The Ten Commandments or Ben Hur among them.
Audiences had become tired of it, that’s why it was fading after ten years. Similar to 3D. The cinemas returned to B&W until full technicolour came along. Only then was it a mainstay. 3D made plenty of money at the cinema but audiences also tired of that.
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Old 07-18-2021, 09:52 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steedeel View Post
Audiences had become tired of it, that’s why it was fading after ten years. Similar to 3D. The cinemas returned to B&W until full technicolour came along. Only then was it a mainstay. 3D made plenty of money at the cinema but audiences also tired of that.
Nonsense. There wasn't even much offered in Process 3 for anyone to become tired of in the first place. The Great Depression is what cooled the interest in it along with the lackluster films made with Process 3; these just weren't great movies and being in color alone could not carry them. The earlier Process 2 films were successful because not only were they in color, partly or fully, but because they were also good movies that people wanted to see.

Interest in color movies was never a fad. Their triumphant return with Process 4 and their continued production to this day prove that color movies were never just a transitory gimmick.

3D on the other hand has always been an "on again off again" fad that has been "off" far more often than it has been "on." Comparing the interest in 3D to that of color films is utterly absurd. Was 3D ever even remotely a "mainstay?" How many color films do we have in comparison to 3D? These are rhetorical questions.

It's not just pandemics that dampen enthusiasm for the adoption of new things like your using it as an excuse for the slow, nearly non-existent, deployment of OBB. The Great Depression put the brakes on a few developments also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steedeel View Post
It’s well documented that audiences didn’t approve.
Still waiting for some of that easy to find "well documented" documentation, too.

Last edited by Vilya; 07-18-2021 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 07-18-2021, 10:10 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
Nonsense. There wasn't even much offered in Process 3 for anyone to become tired of in the first place. The Great Depression is what cooled the interest in it along with the lackluster films made with Process 3. The earlier Process 2 films were successful because not only were they in color, partly or fully, but because they were also good movies.

Interest in color movies was never a fad. Their triumphant return with Process 4 and their continued production to this day prove that color movies were never just a transitory gimmick.

3D on the other hand has always been an "on again off again" fad that has been "off" far more often than it has been "on." Comparing the interest in 3D to that of color films is utterly absurd. Was 3D ever even remotely a "mainstay?" How many color films do we have in comparison to 3D? These are rhetorical questions.

It's not just pandemics that dampen enthusiasm for the adoption of new things like your using it as an excuse for the slow, nearly non-existent, deployment of OBB. The Great Depression put the brakes on a few developments also.



Still waiting for some of that easy to find "well documented" documentation, too.
Interest in two strip was absolutely a fad. Which was my initial point. Audiences had become tired of ‘artificial colour’. I believe Warner stated this. But please continue with your mission to discredit me.
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Old 07-18-2021, 10:22 PM   #53
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Quote:
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Interest in two strip was absolutely a fad. Which was my initial point. Audiences had become tired of ‘artificial colour’. I believe Warner stated this.
No one cares what you believe; where's the "well documented" documentation? Repeating yourself is NOT documentation. Any statement attributed to someone else should have a supporting citation as well.

You discredit yourself because you say ridiculous unsupported things. If you had provided some of that "well documented" documentation when you were first asked for it, several posts ago, we would not be where we are now: still asking you for it.

Process 2 was successful; see article quoted and linked to in an earlier post. Movies made in the mid to late 1920s like The Ten Commandments, Ben Hur, Phantom Of The Opera, & The Black Pirate were all made with Process 2 and they were all quite popular.

With the exception of 1928's The Viking, the few films made with Process 3 were films that generated little interest because they just did not resonate with movie goers of the time; none of them were of the caliber of the Process 2 movies named above. That time was also The Great Depression and that little detail curtailed many leisure pursuits for a great many people.

From Process 2 onward color films continued to be made graduating to process 3 to the triumphant Process 4. At no time did color films essentially skip entire decades like 3D has done.

When Process 4 came along (1935), not only did color movies improve dramatically, some of the greatest movies of all time were made with it. Color movies endured because people across the generations wanted them. Color movies were NEVER a mere gimmick; they were a lasting hit.

Last edited by Vilya; 07-18-2021 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 07-18-2021, 10:25 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya View Post
No one cares what you believe; where's the "well documented" documentation? Repeating yourself is NOT documentation.

Process 2 was successful; see article quoted and linked to in previous post. Movies made in the mid to late 1920s like The Ten Commandments, Ben Hur, Phantom Of The Opera, & The Black Pirate were all made with Process 2 and they were all quite popular.

With the exception of 1928's The Viking, the few films made with Process 3 were films that generated little interest because they just did not interest movie goers of the time; none of them were of the caliber of the Process 2 movies named above. That time was also The Great Depression and that little detail curtailed many leisure pursuits for a great many people.

When Process 4 came along (1935), not only did color movies improve dramatically, some of the greatest movies of all time were made with it. Color movies endured because people across the generations wanted them. Color movies were NEVER a mere gimmick; they were a lasting hit.
Two strip was a fad, we arenít going to agree on this.
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Old 07-18-2021, 10:26 PM   #55
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Quote:
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Interest in two strip was absolutely a fad. Which was my initial point. Audiences had become tired of Ďartificial colourí. I believe Warner stated this. But please continue with your mission to discredit me.
It's 2 Color not 2 Strip. There is no such thing as 2 Strip. 2 Color and 3 Strip.

And it was never a fad or a gimmick (ala 3D). It was the industry moving from B&W to Color. They just hadn't figured out how to go full color. That's why it wasn't used for many films.

At the same time 2 Color was being used, Hollywood was adding Sound to movies (mid 1920s) which wasn't 100% "solid" because it was first a synced record to the film (Vitaphone). All kinds of issues and problems arose. But once it was Sound On Film, that cemented the death of silent films. This happened during the 1930s and again the Depression didn't help with advancements in Movie Theater technology.
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Old 07-18-2021, 10:27 PM   #56
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The last time I watched something in (early) technicolor was the opening prologue to Buster Keaton's "Seven Chances." That was a few months ago since I had gotten the BD from Eureka that contained it. It's a unique look, but the takeaway is that it was early in the process of the technique. I'm not fluent in any of the levels of technicolor, so I couldn't tell you anything more than what you guys already know.
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Old 07-18-2021, 10:35 PM   #57
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Two strip was a fad, we aren’t going to agree on this.
We might if you ever offered some of that "well documented" documentation.

Fads come and they go, like 3D has done so many times; at what point in history did the studios give up on color film making, even briefly, starting with Process 2 onwards? They did not; they continued to invest in color film technology and it evolved and improved continuously until it became the dominant type of film making that has endured to this day.
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Old 07-18-2021, 10:36 PM   #58
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[Show spoiler]It's 2 Color not 2 Strip. There is no such thing as 2 Strip. 2 Color and 3 Strip.

And it was never a fad or a gimmick (ala 3D). It was the industry moving from B&W to Color. They just hadn't figured out how to go full color. That's why it wasn't used for many films.

At the same time 2 Color was being used, Hollywood was adding Sound to movies (mid 1920s) which wasn't 100% "solid" because it was first a synced record to the film (Vitaphone). All kinds of issues and problems arose. But once it was Sound On Film, that cemented the death of silent films. This happened during the 1930s and again
the Depression didn't help with advancements in Movie Theater technology.
Only pandemics interfere with progress; didn't you know?
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Old 07-18-2021, 10:38 PM   #59
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Many of the 2 Color films of the 1920s were not 100% color. They were B&W with Color inserts. Sorta like the way IMAX 15/70 is used today.
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Old 07-18-2021, 10:41 PM   #60
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Many of the 2 Color films of the 1920s were not 100% color. They were B&W with Color inserts. Sorta like the way IMAX 15/70 is used today.
Yes, that was mentioned specifically, and by title, in the article that I quoted earlier.
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