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Old 11-30-2021, 11:41 AM   #1
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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Default Kaleidescape has more capacity and higher video bit rate when compared to 4K Blu-ray

The Kaleidescape system use to only offer 100GB 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray disc image downloads for rent or purchase, with the exact same picture and lossless audio as the original 4K Blu-ray disc. However now the Kaleidescape system for some movie titles literally offers a better picture quality when compared to 4K Blu-ray discs since the Kaleidescape system is not limited to a movie being 100GB in size and can make the movie a higher video bit rate with movie sizes like 150GB or 200GB if needed. So now for the first time consumers have a download hard drive server that has more capacity and better picture quality when compared to 4K Blu-ray discs. However, for that claim to be true the Kaleidescape system needs to offer a firmware update to support all the HDR formats like Dolby Vision HDR and HDR10+ (currently only HDR10 is supported). The Kaleidescape system does support lossless 13.1 Dolby Atmos and 11.1 DTS X. Maybe in the future the Kaleidescape system might support lossless 13.1 Auro 3D with 7.1 PCM core audio.


While the 72TB hard drive server can download a movie over a 1,000Mbps (1Gbps) Internet connection within 10 to 12 minutes using 800Mbps download speeds of the customers 1,000Mbps Internet bandwidth speed. In the ideal world since residential customers in both big cities and some rural areas are getting 10,000Mbps download/upload speeds, then a future version of the Kaleidescape system needs to include a 10,000Mbps Ethernet jack which should only add around $100 to the cost of the 72TB or larger hard drive server. At 8,000Mbps to 10,000Mbps download speed it should only take around 1 minute to download a 4K Blu-ray image instead of around 10 minutes (might have to use a very fast 128GB of DDR4 memory or a solid state drive as a buffer so that 10,000Mbps speeds can occur. The 100GB to 128GB download could be dumped into a 128GB DDR4 memory buffer then the system OS would auto copy the movie file to the 72TB hard drive server).

The Kaleidescape system now offers renting of movies which is real cool. Also, if one of the four 18TB hard drives goes down the system can still be used and as soon as the defective hard drive is replaced. The Kaleidescape system automatically downloads ones movie collection from the cloud.



The Kaleidescape system is a real awesome easy to use system that one day might replace physical optical discs like 4K Blu-ray, Blu-ray, and DVD. Kaleidescape is much better quality then VUDU and Netflix. The only real negative of the system is that it is out of the price range of the average consumer, so it can never become a mainstream product unless a complete system can be purchased for under $10,000. But if 4K Blu-ray discs did not exist one might consider spending $30,000 to $54,000+ for a system. The 72TB hard drive server costs $23,995 and each Statro C players that connect to a Smart TV or projector costs $2,995 each. If one has 10 TV’s in their home the entire setup would cost around $54,000. If one has 4 TV’s in their home the entire system would cost $36,000. Now if one wanted to go with an entry level 12TB movie server instead of the 72TB model, the 12TB server only costs $7,995. So a 3 TV setup in ones home would be around $17,000. But for the average consumer the system needs to fall under the $10,000 or $5,000 price range in order to become mainstream. The Roku Ultra boxes cost $99.99 each. Its too bad a Roku app cannot be used to communicate directly with the Kaleidescape 72TB Terra server. Some people would be willing to pay $8,000 to $24,000 for the home Kaleidescape servers if they could use a Roku ultra or other low cost $100-$500 streaming box that connects over ones existing 10GB or 1GB wired home network.

I am really happy that the Kaleidescape system exists, and a few consumers with up to 10 TV’s in their home might be willing to pay $54,000 for the complete 72TB system with 10 Strato C players. But at the same time one can purchase a very nice home projector for around $54,000 and just buy a 4K Blu-ray player starting at around $150 to $200.


Bottom line: Kaleidescape is better then 4K Blu-ray discs in capacity and overall video bit rate, however the system will always remain a niche high-end product for consumers that demand the best and want something better then what VUDU, Netflix and all other streaming providers can offer. The literal ability to have 100GB 4K image downloads for rent and purchase is real cool. Plus a wider 4K movie selection then what the 4K Blu-ray format has to offer. Instead of using optical discs one uses a hard drive server with a easy to use menu system on all the TV’s in ones house to access ones movie collection.


The following are select quotes from the September/October 2021 Widescreen Review magazine (see page 13 for the full article)

“Kaleidescape claims their movie store has the largest collection of 4K titles available and boasts over 12,000 titles for purchase and more than 8,000 for rent. They claim that users can rent or download movies in reference-quality 4K HDR with lossless Dolby Atmos and DTS-X audio, surpassing even 4K UHD discs in both convenience and quality by going beyond optical disc capacity and bit rate limits. In addition, Kaleidescape offers nearly 400 4K UHD titles not available on Blu-ray Disc. Kaleidescape’s proprietary OS operating system enables Terra 72TB to provide the content protection required by Hollywood motion picture studios for the highest-fidelity renditions of their movies.”


“Terra 72TB stories over 1,000 high fidelity 4K Ultra HD movies, a 50 percent increase over the 48TB.”


“Terra downloads full length 4K movies in as little as 10 minutes”.



“It supports any number of Strato C players and serves up to 10 simultaneous 4K UHD playbacks.”


“When the failed drive is replaced, its movies are automatically restored from the cloud.”


“The Kaleidescape Terra 72TB is priced at $23,995 MSRP and is available now.”


https://www.kaleidescape.com/pdfs/Kaleidescape-Terra-Movie-Server.pdf

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 11-30-2021 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 12-29-2021, 09:27 PM   #2
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Default Kaleidescape Compact Terra 12TB Movie Server Review (Sound and Vision magazine)

quote

"Well, here I am one year later, and I continue to love and highly recommend the Kaleidescape experience. The A/V quality with a Kaleidescape system is second to none, and I appreciate the recent addition of a rental option for movies I want to watch but perhaps not buy without a test run. As for Kaleidescape's new Compact Terra 12TB server, it provides another entry point to this fantastic ecosystem, and also offers an option for those looking to improve the performance and increase the capacity of an existing Kaleidescape setup. This system continues to earn a Top Pick from me, and
I'm very much looking forward to what the company will create in the future."

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-review-page-2
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Old 12-29-2021, 11:44 PM   #3
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Hard drives can store files in excess of 100gb...who knew!

So which titles specifically are larger than UHDs?

I've looked at the 4k download sizes and haven't seen anything compelling yet. Lawrence of Arabia is a 112gb download but it comes on two UHD66 and can be remuxed into a single file anyway.
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Old 09-24-2022, 01:00 AM   #4
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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Default Review: Kaleidescape Compact Terra 22TB Movie Server

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"The one knock against the playback is that Kaleidescape only supports HDR10, not the superior dynamic HDR formats like HDR10+ or Dolby Vision."

https://www.residentialsystems.com/t...b-movie-server

https://www.residentialsystems.com/t...-movie-servers
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Old 09-24-2022, 09:14 AM   #5
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Another Knock is it doesn't support 3D and it has no ability to use your streaming services and no Audio specific functionality so you most likely will want another component that can do those things.

Another is the system is a "closed" system and K has gone out of business once already.

The biggest negative for most people is the price. However, these systems appeal and are marketed to people with far more money than sense so that's not really a problem. The higher than reasonable price is pretty much the only reason people buy into them.

Last edited by bhampton; 09-24-2022 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 09-24-2022, 01:39 PM   #6
Wendell R. Breland Wendell R. Breland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
QUOTE"The one knock against the playback is that Kaleidescape only supports HDR10, not the superior dynamic HDR formats like HDR10+ or Dolby Vision."
Kaleidescape says the majority (most) of owners use the system with their projectors so no need for 10+ or DV.
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Old 09-24-2022, 03:04 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
Kaleidescape says the majority (most) of owners use the system with their projectors so no need for 10+ or DV.

I don't know if HDR10+ and DV are needed and since I don't own one (and not even remotely thinking of getting one) I have nothing to say on that. But IMHO the best aspect of K is the digital distribution (i.e. if I want to watch a BD in my BR or FR I need to go down to the basement pick my BD and bring it back up to one of those rooms to watch while with K I can pick the film and watch it without leaving the room I am in). I can buy that most (maybe even everyone) has a projector and does a lot of watching on it. But I am guessing they are also watching on their TVs as well (does any have K just for the HT where they have a projector?).
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Old 09-24-2022, 03:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
Kaleidescape says the majority (most) of owners use the system with their projectors so no need for 10+ or DV.
It's not common but my projector does HDR10+
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Old 09-24-2022, 03:31 PM   #9
bhampton bhampton is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony P View Post
I don't know if HDR10+ and DV are needed and since I don't own one (and not even remotely thinking of getting one) I have nothing to say on that. But IMHO the best aspect of K is the digital distribution (i.e. if I want to watch a BD in my BR or FR I need to go down to the basement pick my BD and bring it back up to one of those rooms to watch while with K I can pick the film and watch it without leaving the room I am in). I can buy that most (maybe even everyone) has a projector and does a lot of watching on it. But I am guessing they are also watching on their TVs as well (does any have K just for the HT where they have a projector?).
Put the theater in the basement, problem solved.

I have 2 TVs but they are very rarely used. One has nothing hooked up but Video Game Consoles and the other has a steaming box.

No need for the BEST quality if you are then passing it to a television.
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Old 09-24-2022, 03:39 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by bhampton View Post
Put the theater in the basement, problem solved.
the HT is in the basement with the films, I was talking about wanting to watch a film in my Bedroom or Family room. To me that is the one advantage of in-home digital distribution. The collection is in the room you are watching. I find it very hard to believe people with K systems only have one player in the HT connected to a projector.
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Old 09-24-2022, 05:16 PM   #11
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If you have the K system, you can only afford a single display and also probably a one room apartment.

Just kidding. If you have a K system then you are looking for ways to waste money so there's likely OLEDs in the bathrooms.
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Old 09-24-2022, 10:39 PM   #12
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The Kaleidescape system does cost around $56,000+ for a 10 TV system as mentioned in the orignal post. However some smaller families only have 4 TV’s and the system will cost $36,000. The Kaleidescape system is the best of the best top of line system that brings 4K Blu-ray quality with lossless audio into a easy to use system. If one wants lower quality streaming they buy the Roku Ultra, but if one wants the best of the best they get a Kaleidescape.

The following needs to occur if the Kaleidescape system wants to go mainstream

The system cost needs to fall under $10,000 or $5,000 with improvements in the system. Maybe one day offer streaming version at 150Mbps instead of a hard drive server. Maybe offer a hard drive server and a Roku Ultra app for the other TV’s to stream too (but the Roku Ultra needs to be upgraded to 1,000Mbps ethernet since existing models are 100Mbps ethernet). Kaleidescape also needs to offer HDR10+, Dolby Vision HDR, and 3D with a firmware update or new hardware in order to be full 4K Blu-ray and Blu-ray 3D compatible. Currently offering 4K HDR10 Blu-ray images with lossless audio is a huge improvement over streaming.

In the future in many years to come if Netflix and Vudu offer 4K Blu-ray image streams at 150Mbps, then I see possible no more future for Kaleidescape. But if Kaleidescape comes out with 150Mbps 4K streams before everyone else using a low cost under $200 streaming box, then many people would switch to the system. Kaleidescape is high-end and people flock to the system for the best quality. The best quality costs lots of money sometimes. It's nice for large families to access their entire 4K Blu-ray collection from 10 separate home theater rooms with a easy to use Kaleidescape onscreen interface over a 100% 10Gbps or 1Gbps home network.

I would like to see the company have a name change. Everyone knows names like Netflix, Vudu, etc. Also reimage the company with better hardware at cheaper prices and offer a Roku Ultra app would greatly lower the products price since only a hard drive server needs purchased. The problem with using the Roku Ultra device is that it only offers 100Mbps, the Kaleidescape company requires a streaming box that offers 1,000Mbps networking between the hard drive server since 4K Blu-ray streams with lossless audio need a minimum of 150Mbps for each TV in the house. The ideal new hard drive server needs 10,000Mbps networking jacks since one is talking about 1,500Mbps if 10 people in the house are streaming at once.

It’s a great system the only real complaint is the price. And maybe over the years the price will come down. In the future Kaleidescape might be a company that mergers with another company or is purchased by another company to get its technology in order to go mainstream with lower cost hardware.

I would love to see Kaleidescape develop a movie server with 256GB of DDR4 memory used as a memory buffer along with a 10,000Mbps networking jack. With a external port to connect a 100TB hard drive storge device would be ideal. With 10,000Mbps Internet service and a 256GB of DDR4 memory buffer with UPS power backup, one could easily get a BD-100 disc (100GB) image downloaded in 1 minute instead of 10 minutes that the slower 1,000Mbps Internet service offers.

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 09-24-2022 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 09-25-2022, 03:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
The Kaleidescape system is the best of the best top of line system that brings 4K Blu-ray quality with lossless audio into a easy to use system.
I thought that was a UHD BD player and UHD BD movies
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Old 09-25-2022, 03:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony P View Post
I thought that was a UHD BD player and UHD BD movies
Correct.
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Old 09-28-2022, 10:32 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony P View Post
the HT is in the basement with the films, I was talking about wanting to watch a film in my Bedroom or Family room. To me that is the one advantage of in-home digital distribution. The collection is in the room you are watching. I find it very hard to believe people with K systems only have one player in the HT connected to a projector.
Well, I have my Kaleidescape system plugged in to 5 displays. All are 4k HDR except my theater, oddly enough. Upgrading TVs is cheap. Upgrading a projector is expensive (at least, when putting in a high end projector). I have sold systems to people who just have it hooked up to their projector in their theater though.
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Old 10-01-2022, 02:43 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mr.Poindexter View Post
Well, I have my Kaleidescape system plugged in to 5 displays. All are 4k HDR except my theater, oddly enough. Upgrading TVs is cheap. Upgrading a projector is expensive (at least, when putting in a high end projector). I have sold systems to people who just have it hooked up to their projector in their theater though.
cool to hear from an actual dealer. Out of curiosity what percent would you say are just connected to a single projector
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Old 10-12-2022, 05:36 AM   #17
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select quotes from latest Sound and Vision magazine review

"I have a couple other concerns about the system. While my current projector doesnít support HDR10+ or Dolby Vision, those features are common in TVs and starting to appear on ultra-short-throw (UST) projectors. However, the Kaleidescape system doesnít support either of those HDR formats, just basic HDR10."

"One quibble I have with the user interface (UI) is it only shows whatís currently on your server, not everything that you may own. Granted, with 48 terabytes of storage, you likely wonít need to delete many titles due to storage issues, but on a 6TB unit, you may have to pick and choose what you keep on local storage. I would love to have the ability to see everything I own either on the main screen ó with non-locally stored content grayed out ó or on a dedicated page that shows titles you own but havenít yet downloaded. Itís important to remember, Kaleidescape files are download-only, and you cannot stream a title directly from the store. But is it worth noting that some new releases show up in the store when the streaming version is released, with the UHD Blu-ray often shipping weeks or even months later."

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-heaven-page-2
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Old 10-12-2022, 04:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
select quotes from latest Sound and Vision magazine review

"I have a couple other concerns about the system. While my current projector doesnít support HDR10+ or Dolby Vision, those features are common in TVs and starting to appear on ultra-short-throw (UST) projectors. However, the Kaleidescape system doesnít support either of those HDR formats, just basic HDR10."

"One quibble I have with the user interface (UI) is it only shows whatís currently on your server, not everything that you may own. Granted, with 48 terabytes of storage, you likely wonít need to delete many titles due to storage issues, but on a 6TB unit, you may have to pick and choose what you keep on local storage. I would love to have the ability to see everything I own either on the main screen ó with non-locally stored content grayed out ó or on a dedicated page that shows titles you own but havenít yet downloaded. Itís important to remember, Kaleidescape files are download-only, and you cannot stream a title directly from the store. But is it worth noting that some new releases show up in the store when the streaming version is released, with the UHD Blu-ray often shipping weeks or even months later."

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-heaven-page-2
Since one cannot stream content from the store but instead have it fully downloaded before they watch, showing greyed out content is likely to cause more headaches and disappointment than benefits as customers will then complain that they have to wait before they can watch a title they don't have downloaded. Simply put, that "forbidden fruit" effect may well make them want to watch what they don't have.

At some point, most Kaleidescape users run into storage constraints. I maxed out my Premier server many times over the years, having to do hard drive upgrades to increase my capacity, adding a second server, migrating to a much larger new server and retiring my old ones, back and forth. I eventually settled on 1 3U server for my Premier system with 72TB of storage. I have the Strato system with 12TB and have not made the leap yet to a large Terra server but figure that will be happening in the not too distant future.

I cannot speak to Dolby Vision, but I would say that if a format becomes mainstream, Kaleidescape will very likely support it. That said, they are not going to chase ever single new format because there is a real cost to doing so and often no tangible sales benefit. Look at 3D. How many 3D titles are being released currently? That was a flash in the pan, IMO. I even have several dozen 3D films on Bluray but I am fine with Kaleidescape not supporting it since I wasn't really looking to buy a half dozen new players or have to load a 3D copy of the film for rooms with 3D and a 2D version for rooms that don't have 3D, since we were just talking about storage needs, those start to add up. If it doesn't, then you didn't have that much content to justify the new format, right? So many of these new options are being pushed by companies trying to sell hardware to keep the upgrade train chugging along. You can live on the cutting edge, but it is sharp, and you bleed a lot.

I have found myself far happier just upgrading when there is a major step up and it is well supported. Even for things that are going to be inevitably adopted, being the first isn't always fun. I remember having my HDTV set back in the 1990's and looking for content. I was just waiting for HDNET to show super high-quality video of grass growing and paint drying.
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Old 10-13-2022, 01:45 AM   #19
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The ideal system would allow a consumer to plug in a external USB 3.1 hard drive storage that uses a total of five 20TB hard drives. It would cost $459.99 for each enterprise quality 20TB hard drive. So 5 drives would cost $2,299.95. Maybe the custom high-speed hot swappable USB 3.1 storage would hold 5 to 10 drives for around $2,000. So total cost for a third party 100TB storage using USB 3.1 would be under $5,000. If one wanted 200TB storage a hard drive storage would be under $10,000.

These hard drives have a mean time before failure rating of 2.5 million hours and 285Mbps transfer speed which is fast enough for 8K video with lossless audio. Yes this system I mentioned is not RAID configured which would double the cost with double hard drives needs. But one does not need RAID if a hard drive goes down, just replaced the $459.99 20TB hard drive with a new one and the system would automatically use ones current 10Gbps or 1Gbps Internet service to replace the missing files.

https://www.newegg.com/seagate-exos-...82E16822185011
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Old 10-14-2022, 08:14 AM   #20
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Someone could make a better system then the current Kaleidescape system at a cheaper price. All one needs to do is use a X299 motherboard that has a dual 10,000Mbps LAN connection. Then use 256GB of DDR4 memory. Then use an external 200TB USB 3.1 hard drive system. The X299 motherboard would have a very fast and reliable M2 solid state drive on the motherboard. Then one would have to pay a programmer to use the Linux operating system to emulate a movie server that is better then Kaleidescape.

The X299 motherboard would be ideal for the ultimate Kaleidescape style system. One would have 256GB download buffer with a fast solid state drive that is connected to 200TB USB 3.1 hard drive system. Plus the download of a 100GB 4K Blu-ray image would take a maximum of 1 minute over a 10,000Mbps Internet connection. The hard work is paying the programmer to create a Linux movie system. Also a third party app needs to be written for a streaming box that has a minimum of 1,000Mbps ethernet. Then over the home network the 4K streaming boxes could communicate with the X299 system.

The new Kaleidescape system would be faster, more reliable, and cheaper when compared to the existing system. The hardware exists to create a system better then Kaleidescape, the key is to get the Hollywood studios to support the system. Kaleidescape might have exclusive contract with the studios and developing a new system to compete with Kaleidescape would only work if the studios supported the new system.

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards...X299-SAGE-10G/

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 10-14-2022 at 08:22 AM.
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