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Old 09-04-2012, 05:11 PM   #41
Lnds500 Lnds500 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
Well, people on certain forums that rhyme with "Ultimate Prisney" and "DVDSizzly" aren't ever happy about anything.
Actually, the people who complain the most and about everything are mostly on Blu-ray.com but whatever

Quote:
The site founder waged a pissing war against Blu-Ray in the first place, with now-infamous quotes about "DVD is fine" and what not.
and that's relevant to what?
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:03 PM   #42
disneyfreak disneyfreak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
Well, people on certain forums that rhyme with "Ultimate Prisney" and "DVDSizzly" aren't ever happy about anything. The site founder waged a pissing war against Blu-Ray in the first place, with now-infamous quotes about "DVD is fine" and what not. There are certain shots in Snow White that concern me, I thought Pinocchio looked and sounded stellar, Fantasia was glorious, Dumbo looked great although with some anomalies, Bambi looked great, Alice looked great, Lady and the Tramp, Sleeping Beauty, The Rescuers and Rescuers Down Under -- all great. Some carp they could be better, and this is true, but that doesn't mean that what we have was utter crap. Some people just want Perfection, because they worship these films. Perfection is possible, but very rare, and so we learn to settle for just "very very good" and really, if you're asking for more than that, you might be asking too much.

Having a white line running up and down the side of the frame for the length of the film...THAT is unacceptable.
Just about every platinum edition was criticized.
[Show spoiler]
Beauty and the Beast: Colors were drastically changed on purpose.

The Lion King: Different pieces of animation had changed and colors purposely.

Bambi: Criticized colors being restored wrong.

Cinderella: Worst restoration detail removed and colors wrong.

The Little Mermaid: Criticized for colors, and changes.

Peter Pan: Color changing.

The Jungle Book: Aspect Ratio Questioned.

Sleeping Beauty: Colors are questioned.

Pinocchio: Dialog originally missing and colors different.


I'm just stating what people had problems with, I don't actually have a problem with most of these. Beauty and the Beast and Cinderella's platinum editions were the two that I really don't like.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:12 PM   #43
Lnds500 Lnds500 is offline
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I am so gonna come off as a maniac on this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
"I don't think people were actually very happy with the majority of the transfers."

The only forum I've seen where this is true is UD, where catty people just savage the releases and really have no clue what they're talkig about - which starts from the site owner on down (DVD is fine, geez louise).
Take a closer look then cause people have complained in here as well. For TLK, BatB and for about every other film in existence.

Quote:
The majority of the BR releases from Disney have been absolutely stellar, with only one (Fox and the Hound) that I would term as unacceptable (with the "line" issue - they really should recall the disc). The contrast in the Cinderella restoration is higher than the video-paintbox restoration from the VHS, and you now see more details in the backgrounds, but because characters are brighter, the line art in clothing and what not is not so apparent. It aint gone, it's just not as apparent.
You are missing the point!

The restoration on the Blu-ray is the same restoration which was used for the 2005 DVD release and has been confirmed by a lot of people, including myself.

So, get with the times, and don't give us the "I'm gonna wait to see for myself" routine. What, Disney is gonna make a disc especially for you which will be problems-free and you are "waiting to see for yourself"?

And "absolutely stellar?? "non as apparent"? Are you actually gonna give us the "they raised the brightness level" and that "the screenshots are not from the disc" crap argument? That's childish and laughable, to say the least. That's something a Disney rep would tell, not someone who claims that "animation is his life". You actually believe that if I insert these screenshots into an editing program and I change the exposure/contrast the lines will become more apparent? And ok, I'll give you the lines. Will her hands grow back as well??

Disney has done wonderful restoration on most of its films. This one is not one of them. And we are not discussing deliberate colour changes from the film-makers, nothing of this sort. We are discussing loss of detail which, by all means, is quite profound on Cinderella. Nearly every Disney film is brighter now than its VHS counterpart. Why haven't the rest lost the detail this one has? Why do Snow White, Dumbo and Sleeping Beauty have stellar lines and are absolutely breathtaking and Cinderella, which has some of the most iconic imagery in the Disney universe looks like sh*t?

P.S. we've had some average and some bad transfers from Disney (Aristocats and Treasure Planet could be better and Tarzan and Home on the Range are completely awful)
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:31 PM   #44
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lnds500 View Post
I am so gonna come off as a maniac on this one.

You are missing the point!

The restoration on the Blu-ray is the same restoration which was used for the 2005 DVD release and has been confirmed by a lot of people, including myself.
So what? How many times are they supposed to scan the original negative? Are you serious in suggesting that every release for a Disney home video product, you expect them to take out the OCN and scan it all over again?

Quote:
So, get with the times, and don't give us the "I'm gonna wait to see for myself" routine. What, Disney is gonna make a disc especially for you which will be problems-free and you are "waiting to see for yourself"?
No. I'm waiting to see for myself because Bambi used the same scan as the orior DVD release, and it looked great, and they went in and fixed issues for the Blu-Ray. Why don't you just wait and not get yourself into a lather?

Quote:
And "absolutely stellar?? "non as apparent"? Are you actually gonna give us the "they raised the brightness level" and that "the screenshots are not from the disc" crap argument? That's childish and laughable, to say the least. That's something a Disney rep would tell, not someone who claims that "animation is his life". You actually believe that if I insert these screenshots into an editing program and I change the exposure/contrast the lines will become more apparent?
No, because a screenshot from a VHS - of all things - is not the same thing as a 4k video scan of a three-strip Technicolor negative from 1950, with all the subsequent post work and mastering. Of course you're not going to be able to pull detail out of a VHS screenshot that isn't there. The 4k scan, though, can probably pull detail out of the negative, and via modern tools, present it in a way you might not be used to.

Wow.

Last edited by Ernest Rister; 09-04-2012 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:56 PM   #45
Lnds500 Lnds500 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
So what? How many times are they supposed to scan the original negative? Are you serious in suggesting that every release for a Disney home video product, you expect them to take out the OCN and scan it all over again?
I did not expect them to scan them again. I just pointed out that the BD uses the same flawed restoration the DVD did. It uses the same restoration, warts and all, and that has been confirmed, hence the controversy and the comparison etc.

Quote:
No. I'm waiting to see for myself because Bambi used the same scan as the orior DVD release, and it looked great, and they went in and fixed issues for the Blu-Ray. Why don't you just wait and not get yourself into a lather?
I have the Blu-ray. That's how I know they didn't fix the issues.

Quote:
Of course you're not going to be able to pull detail out of a VHS screenshot that isn't there.
That's the opposite of what I was saying. You said that the lines are there, they are just not that apparent due to the raised contrast. And I'm asking; If I put the following screenshot (from the Blu-ray)

(notice the bow, it has only one line!! - I remember this sequence very differently cause I always had my eyes on that bow)

into an editing program, do you think this will reveal extra detail? Cause the answer is no. it's not hidden by brightness, it simply isn't there.

here (just for argument's sake I tried to enhance the line which has been left on a bow)
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:14 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy2 View Post
Hi PuppyJonathan,

thanks for posting those video's! They really do add to our discussion here.

Looking at them, I get the feeling the general restoration quality and the way the colors matched to the original was at its worst between 2000 and 2006 or thereabout: the Platinum era, yes.
Before they often were slightly too dark, but with hardly any visible restoration done to them. Then they started to throw everything at them to make them look like "new". And starting around 2008, the beginning of the Diamond era, their skills had been improved so much, the quality was at its best so far.
So then you ask yourself: WHY did they recycle a restoration from 2005, knowing they could do so much better by now!? What a shame. This could have been such a wonderfully positive review here, Disney?...

By the way PuppyJonathan, could you maybe put those video's behind a spoiler, because they really slow the scrolling down. Thanks!
Thanks, I usually just check them to see how much picture is lost/gained and I have edited that post now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Rister View Post
Yeah - shots and screenshots from the YCM version of Snow White are on the CAV 1994 laserdisc. Backgrounds so black, you can't see a thing.
I won't post an example but I will see for myself
Quote:
Originally Posted by disneyfreak View Post
Just about every platinum edition was criticized.
[Show spoiler]
Beauty and the Beast: Colors were drastically changed on purpose.

The Lion King: Different pieces of animation had changed and colors purposely.

Bambi: Criticized colors being restored wrong.

Cinderella: Worst restoration detail removed and colors wrong.

The Little Mermaid: Criticized for colors, and changes.

Peter Pan: Color changing.

The Jungle Book: Aspect Ratio Questioned.

Sleeping Beauty: Colors are questioned.

Pinocchio: Dialog originally missing and colors different.


I'm just stating what people had problems with, I don't actually have a problem with most of these. Beauty and the Beast and Cinderella's platinum editions were the two that I really don't like.
Not to mention many complaints about Lion King's organization of extras
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:18 PM   #47
PuppyJonathan PuppyJonathan is offline
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I am going to leave this thread by the way guys, why? Because I realized that Disney is doing the best that they can to preserve and restore these films. I also wanted to stop once I realized that they were going to the backgrounds as a color key for the characters. Disney doesn't outsource these restorations, there all in-house but they are partnered with Lowry Digital and if Disney is using the backgrounds as a key and doing it in-house to restore why complain? These may be the best these films ever looked and you guys are just passing it up jus because a few "sparkles" are missing
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:54 PM   #48
disneyfreak disneyfreak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppyJonathan View Post
I am going to leave this thread by the way guys, why? Because I realized that Disney is doing the best that they can to preserve and restore these films. I also wanted to stop once I realized that they were going to the backgrounds as a color key for the characters. Disney doesn't outsource these restorations, there all in-house but they are partnered with Lowry Digital and if Disney is using the backgrounds as a key and doing it in-house to restore why complain? These may be the best these films ever looked and you guys are just passing it up jus because a few "sparkles" are missing
I understand disney is trying there best, and since they are sourcing from original prints now the colors are different. But Cinderella's restoration truly is horrid. It looks like a coloring book. The sparkles aren't even that noticable upon watching the film, but Lines missing?? Cinderellas dress, the carriage, and the horses are just a few things missing drastic line changes.
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:12 AM   #49
wasim h wasim h is offline
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everyone



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Old 09-05-2012, 10:55 PM   #50
wasim h wasim h is offline
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Peter Pan is going to be released on Blu-ray later this year and its obvious that Disney is going to use the same Platinum Edition Master which was so blurry and out of focus beside the annoying colors compared to the 2003 Special Edition which in my opinion was wonderful



----------- 2007 Platinum Edition ----------------------- 2003 Special Edition

http://imageshack.us/a/img809/8007/1newp.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img14/8049/1old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img856/4079/2newb.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img266/5062/2old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img193/273/3newf.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img832/8625/3old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img841/736/4neww.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img546/4526/4old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img803/9112/5newf.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img27/1765/5old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img209/4363/6new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img69/6949/6old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img59/1834/7new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img826/8192/7olde.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img515/1016/8new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img525/8624/8old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img39/4115/9newc.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img685/3604/9old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img829/6325/10newv.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img62/9387/10old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img705/3026/11new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img689/3687/11old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img253/3257/13new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img534/9325/12old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img266/1424/14new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img254/8898/14old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img840/9703/15new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img443/6360/15old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img822/5927/16new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img9/9254/16old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img534/6384/17new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img145/5271/17old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img213/7631/18new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img191/5857/18old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img580/2991/19new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img528/8/19old.jpg


Peter Pan really needs a new restoration for this new Bluray
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:01 AM   #51
miniroll32 miniroll32 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasim h View Post
Peter Pan is going to be released on Blu-ray later this year and its obvious that Disney is going to use the same Platinum Edition Master which was so blurry and out of focus beside the annoying colors compared to the 2003 Special Edition which in my opinion was wonderful

Peter Pan really needs a new restoration for this new Bluray
Thanks for that post Wasim. Interesting; the 2003 DVD seems faithful to the actual source, but the 2007 Reliance restoration 'appears' to have a different colour grading - one that has been intended to alter the atmosphere. In the 2007 version, the lighting and vibrancy of the primary colours is more befitting how the characters would actually look in those particular environments, whereas the 2003 version, though not at all accurate in this respect, appears truer to the original photography.

This begs the question of whether Disney requested that the grading become realistic, as if the 2003 version is indeed faithful, then the artists may have purposefully given the movie a 'popped' appearance that Disney didn't like in 2007.

Last edited by miniroll32; 09-06-2012 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:40 AM   #52
Lnds500 Lnds500 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasim h View Post
Peter Pan is going to be released on Blu-ray later this year and its obvious that Disney is going to use the same Platinum Edition Master which was so blurry and out of focus beside the annoying colors compared to the 2003 Special Edition which in my opinion was wonderful
Is this the DVD you and are were talking about?
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:12 PM   #53
disneyfreak disneyfreak is offline
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I actually just watched Peter Pan several days ago, and I think the platinum transfer is great, I don't really notice the softness unless its compared. The colors of all of the platinums were changed because they used the original prints. The one thing I do wonder though is what color the native americans actually are, if they really were vibrant red on the original print and they changed it so they wouldn't get criticized, or if that was actually the original color.
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:21 PM   #54
wasim h wasim h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miniroll32 View Post
Thanks for that post Wasim. Interesting; the 2003 DVD seems faithful to the actual source, but the 2007 Reliance restoration 'appears' to have a different colour grading - one that has been intended to alter theatmosphere . In the 2007 version, the lighting and vibrancy of the primary colours is more befitting how the characters would actually look in those particular environments, whereas the 2003 version, though not at all accurate in this respect, appears truer to the original photography.

This begs the question of whether Disney requested that the grading become realistic, as if the 2003 version is indeed faithful, then the artists may have purposefully given the movie a 'popped' appearance that Disney didn't like in 2007.
agreed
the Platinum restoration changed the whole atmosphere of the film , the 2003 colors looks so natural

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lnds500 View Post
Is this the DVD you and are were talking about?
yes
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:46 PM   #55
Freddy2 Freddy2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasim h View Post
Peter Pan is going to be released on Blu-ray later this year and its obvious that Disney is going to use the same Platinum Edition Master which was so blurry and out of focus beside the annoying colors compared to the 2003 Special Edition which in my opinion was wonderful



----------- 2007 Platinum Edition ----------------------- 2003 Special Edition

[Show spoiler]http://imageshack.us/a/img809/8007/1newp.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img14/8049/1old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img856/4079/2newb.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img266/5062/2old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img193/273/3newf.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img832/8625/3old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img841/736/4neww.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img546/4526/4old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img803/9112/5newf.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img27/1765/5old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img209/4363/6new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img69/6949/6old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img59/1834/7new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img826/8192/7olde.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img515/1016/8new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img525/8624/8old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img39/4115/9newc.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img685/3604/9old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img829/6325/10newv.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img62/9387/10old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img705/3026/11new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img689/3687/11old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img253/3257/13new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img534/9325/12old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img266/1424/14new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img254/8898/14old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img840/9703/15new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img443/6360/15old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img822/5927/16new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img9/9254/16old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img534/6384/17new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img145/5271/17old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img213/7631/18new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img191/5857/18old.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img580/2991/19new.jpg // http://imageshack.us/a/img528/8/19old.jpg



Peter Pan really needs a new restoration for this new Bluray
Thanks for posting this great comparison!
But why do you say "its obvious that Disney is going to use the same Platinum Edition Master"?... I mean, considering the Cinderella mess-up, I understand that it's likely they will recycle this one as well, but... I REALLY HOPE NOT!!! That one looks HORRIBLE! A second "Aristocats"... Worse even.

I'm starting to reconsider my collection. Do I continue, or do I quit!?... It really is no fun anymore when Disney is going on like this...

Last edited by Freddy2; 09-07-2012 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:17 AM   #56
disneyfreak disneyfreak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy2 View Post
Thanks for posting this great comparison!
But why do you say "its obvious that Disney is going to use the same Platinum Edition Master"?... I mean, considering the Cinderella mess-up, I understand that it's likely they will recycle this one as well, but... I REALLY HOPE NOT!!! That one looks HORRIBLE! A second "Aristocats"... Worse even.

I'm starting to reconsider my collection. Do I continue, or do I quit!?... It really is no fun anymore when Disney is going on like this...
Its highly unlikely, the only ones that should be getting a new transfer are Beauty and the Beast, The Lion King, and The Little Mermaid. All the others should be platinum transfers.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:53 PM   #57
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Just turned the second post of this thread into a Contents post, complete with links to the first two Comparisons, made by Lnds500, for "The Aristocats" and "101 Dalmatians".
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Old 09-14-2012, 05:36 PM   #58
miniroll32 miniroll32 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy2 View Post
I mean, considering the Cinderella mess-up...
Disney will never admit to such mistakes in the Platinum/Diamond restorations because the small minority of people that would complain are just that; a very small minority. The vast majority of consumers who purchase these products just want something that at least looks clean and modern, regardless of how faithful the presentation is. In this respect, Disney can pretty much do whatever they want to their movies, which is a great shame.
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Old 09-21-2012, 02:18 PM   #59
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someone on youtube uploaded clips from 101 dalmatians and Cindy's blu-ray, ironically the longest of the Cindy clip is the transformation and ball room scene, so you can see the problems.




101 dalmatians if someone wanted to see it.

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Old 09-22-2012, 11:51 AM   #60
Lnds500 Lnds500 is offline
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29) The Rescuers Down Under (1990)

******* DVD *********** Blu-ray ********* Blu-ray digital (Waking Sleeping Beauty)



TO BE UPDATED ***** TO BE UPDATED ***
TO BE UPDATED ***** TO BE UPDATED ***






Last edited by Lnds500; 03-08-2014 at 11:19 AM.
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