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Old 09-14-2022, 03:37 AM   #281
Lee A Stewart Lee A Stewart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
Native 4K in 3D only exists in commercial movie theaters like Dolby Cinema and IMAX. Blu-ray 3D is a native 1080P format maximum. If 3D for the home became popular again then a new native 4K Blu-ray 3D format could be created (add it to the 8K Blu-ray format that might launch in 2026-2028 timeframe).
And when the 8K disc format fails to appear in your timeframe will you keep saying "next year" or will you finally believe the reality that 4K UHD-BD is the last physical disc format.
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Old 09-14-2022, 07:28 PM   #282
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Only time will tell if my UHD BD collection outgrows my Blu Ray collection.

Seems possible though. However, I did buy 4 blu rays today so I guess I'm not helping.
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Old 09-15-2022, 03:16 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart View Post
And when the 8K disc format fails to appear in your timeframe will you keep saying "next year" or will you finally believe the reality that 4K UHD-BD is the last physical disc format.
If streaming one day offers 8K with lossless audio, then I would be interested in streaming if optical discs is not offering 8K resolution. Yes if we reach the end of the 10 year cycle in 2026 (plus or minus a few years) then yes around 2028 or 2029 I will not mention it. But with 8K displays and 8K A/V receivers offering 8K HDMI inputs then there has to be something like 8K videogame consoles, 8K satellite receivers, 8K cable boxes, 8K Roku Ultra and possible 8K optical disc format called 8K Blu-ray or 8K DVD sometime in the 2026+ timeframe.

The industry does not place 8K HDMI ports on 8K TV’s and A/V receivers if there is no plans to offer some type of external 8K hardware device.
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Old 09-15-2022, 07:25 AM   #284
Lee A Stewart Lee A Stewart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
If streaming one day offers 8K with lossless audio, then I would be interested in streaming if optical discs is not offering 8K resolution. Yes if we reach the end of the 10 year cycle in 2026 (plus or minus a few years) then yes around 2028 or 2029 I will not mention it. But with 8K displays and 8K A/V receivers offering 8K HDMI inputs then there has to be something like 8K videogame consoles, 8K satellite receivers, 8K cable boxes, 8K Roku Ultra and possible 8K optical disc format called 8K Blu-ray or 8K DVD sometime in the 2026+ timeframe.

The industry does not place 8K HDMI ports on 8K TV’s and A/V receivers if there is no plans to offer some type of external 8K hardware device.
8K streaming - take that one to the bank. Probably in the next two years. All the rest? Not. Going. To. Happen. You can take THAT to the bank and cash it.

See - only Japan committed to 8K. When SMPTE came up with the specifications for UHD1 (4K) and UHD2 (8K) the concensus was that the US would not adopt 8K. 4K would be the US Ultra High Definition format. Nothing has changed that.
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Old 09-15-2022, 11:13 AM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart View Post
8K streaming - take that one to the bank.
I'll let the bank keep that one.
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Old 09-15-2022, 11:27 AM   #286
Lee A Stewart Lee A Stewart is offline
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I'll let the bank keep that one.
It's going to happen whether you want it to or not.
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Old 09-15-2022, 12:07 PM   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart View Post
It's going to happen whether you want it to or not.
And I'll reserve the right to not give a dern if it happens or not.

All kinds of things happen that I don't care anything about and 8K steaming would likely just go on that pile with tic tok and meta and all kinds of stuff that hopefully appeals to someone else.

I recalibrated my projector (RS3100) yesterday for SDR and HDR and love the results. I hope there is a new FW update as has been mentioned but my system is currently ready for anything. I have a disc player and a net streamer and even though I think I'll always have a Disney+ subscription I will still buy the content that I want to see in higher quality than the steaming version. Yesterday that was Doctor Strange maybe today I'll get Lightyear. Disney isn't the best studio for UHD BD but they often have the best content to put on the UHD BD.

=Brian

Last edited by bhampton; 09-15-2022 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 09-16-2022, 11:59 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhampton View Post
And I'll reserve the right to not give a dern if it happens or not.

All kinds of things happen that I don't care anything about and 8K steaming would likely just go on that pile with tic tok and meta and all kinds of stuff that hopefully appeals to someone else.

I recalibrated my projector (RS3100) yesterday for SDR and HDR and love the results. I hope there is a new FW update as has been mentioned but my system is currently ready for anything. I have a disc player and a net streamer and even though I think I'll always have a Disney+ subscription I will still buy the content that I want to see in higher quality than the steaming version. Yesterday that was Doctor Strange maybe today I'll get Lightyear. Disney isn't the best studio for UHD BD but they often have the best content to put on the UHD BD.

=Brian
Our projectors accept an 8k signal if I'm not mistaking.
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Old 09-17-2022, 12:25 AM   #289
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Yes. The projectors can do 8K and project all 8K pixel count through the eshiftX process. And of course the full 4K/120 for gaming.
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Old 09-17-2022, 12:47 AM   #290
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Quote:
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Our projectors accept an 8k signal if I'm not mistaking.
Sure but 8K streaming will probably not be as good as UHD BD.

4K streaming doesn't compare well to blu ray.

Of course, only time will tell.
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Old 10-20-2022, 01:11 AM   #291
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Some pretty exciting updates coming to this line of projectors in November 2022. A new laser dimming mode will be added along with a new Auto Wide HDR Level selection that should address HDR still being "too dark" by default.

I have the RS1100 so I'll only be able to take advantage of the new Auto Wide settings but it should take care of changing HDR Level constantly.
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Old 10-20-2022, 05:44 PM   #292
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I have an NP5, but I find -1 (or Auto which defaults to such) optimal for 95% of my UHD BD viewing. 0 clips too many specular highlights for my liking. YMMV.

For the other 5%, I find a tweak or two on the Panasonic 820 tone mapping settings to really help.

Once in while a -2 is better. I preferred 0 on one movie (300).

Auto works well IF the metadata on the disc is accurate.

Last edited by HeavyHitter; 10-20-2022 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 11-10-2022, 08:23 PM   #293
Luis Gabriel Gerena Luis Gabriel Gerena is offline
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Originally Posted by Spartan21 View Post
Are you happy with the contrast/black levels? That is my only frustration because the 1080p JVCs were able to get to 130,000:1 - 160,000:1 native contrast and now we are back at 80,000:1. Perhaps if I wait until the end of 2023, JVC can increase that native contrast on their laser projectors with new models. I would love to see their midrange 4k laser pjs at 120,000:1 native or more.
Indeed that's the reason I returned it and kept my RS540. The contrast difference was obvious in a total light and reflection controlled room. You can see that as the thing most people notice during comparisons as well..not the detail unless you are sitting VERY close to the screen for a bigger than common viewing angle
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Old 11-10-2022, 08:27 PM   #294
Luis Gabriel Gerena Luis Gabriel Gerena is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyHitter View Post
Those eshift 130,000 to 160,000 numbers were not realistic in most cases. That is because the dual iris was fully closed down in that spec. That is not enough light output for almost everyone and the contrast decreases as the irises open.

Depending on models and sample variations, most people keep the irises wide open for HDR where they were getting 35,000:1 to 45,000:1 native on the upper eshift models. The 4K units tend to be 20,000:1 to 30,000:1 with the iris wide open.

For SDR and presumably less light output, closing down the iris still gives the eshift a bigger advantage. However, almost everyone wants to prioritize HDR.

The JVC DTM blows away anything the eshift can do with static mapping.

The native 4K panel also gives not only more detail, but has a more stable, natural look vs eshift. Even on 1080p upscaled to 4K.

I recently came from an e-shift to the NP5. Very much enjoying the upgrade.
Yes without something like madvr, the eshift models cant compete but with madvr or similar, the contrast ratio difference is EASILY visible much more than any detail differences.
Your argument about the contrast rating not been accurate well, that would go for both but you are incorrect and seem to be trying to do the old confirmation bias that you have the better projector.
So lets stick to facts so other members can make better informed purchases.. when it comes to contrast ratio the previous gen easily reigns supreme and that cannot be argued. It is measurable AND more importantly, easily visible. And overall has more impact on the experience than the difference in resolution.
Now if you dont have a source that can do DTM then skip the previous gen.
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Old 11-10-2022, 08:53 PM   #295
HeavyHitter HeavyHitter is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis Gabriel Gerena View Post
Yes without something like madvr, the eshift models cant compete but with madvr or similar, the contrast ratio difference is EASILY visible much more than any detail differences.
Your argument about the contrast rating not been accurate well, that would go for both but you are incorrect and seem to be trying to do the old confirmation bias that you have the better projector.
So lets stick to facts so other members can make better informed purchases.. when it comes to contrast ratio the previous gen easily reigns supreme and that cannot be argued. It is measurable AND more importantly, easily visible. And overall has more impact on the experience than the difference in resolution.
Now if you dont have a source that can do DTM then skip the previous gen.
lol

Facts? You seem to have none.

I just quoted actual well known contrast ratios typically measured accurately in real world settings including by top calibrators.

Almost no one uses a JVC with the iris fully closed down. I also owned the RS500 which measured at 120,000:1 by the spec which is almost meaningless. I also have a room where contrast differences are noticeable and pictures in my gallery.

It's well known that one has to DOUBLE the native contrast to see a difference than means anything.

The RS500 was around ~40,000:1 native with the iris fully wide. My NP5 is closer to 30,000:1 with the iris wide open and those differences are not even noticeable.


Very, very few
people are going to screw around with a madVR HTPC trying to rip discs, or spend $7-8K on a Lumagen or Envy.

And even then, you're going to need more than a handful of nits. I know people with Lumagen, Envy/MadVR and they keep the JVC iris mostly or fully open. Most people using these have large screens and still appreciate the extra light output. The HDR spec is based around brightness. Most people don't want to watch SDR at 10 ftl either. More people are watching SDR projected much brighter - 20-30ftL more common than before. Guess what that means, you will need the iris opened up! Once again, making the spec contrast advantage you fantasize about non-existent.

Furthermore, the native 4K JVCs are absolutely superior in terms of a cleaner image (eshift adds visible noise), image stability, video processing, more natural image, notably sharper, and better ansi contrast.

Eshift was a good deal back in its day, but it's old and inferior...and the contrast differences are not going to matter in the vast majority of set-ups.

So, having owned both eshift and native 4K JVC (with both pro calibrated) I can speak to living with both unlike yourself spewing your own bias.

Last edited by HeavyHitter; 11-10-2022 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 11-10-2022, 09:36 PM   #296
Luis Gabriel Gerena Luis Gabriel Gerena is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyHitter View Post
Facts? You seem to have none.

I just quoted actual well known contrast ratios typically measured accurately in real world settings including by top calibrators including Chad B who has $20,000 worth of meter equipment (Klein K10 and Jeti 1211 spectro). Chad B has been my calibrator for years. Kris Deering has measured these kind of numbers too, so what I am quoting is well established knowledge that you lack.

Almost no one uses a JVC with the iris fully closed down. I also owned the RS500 which measured at 120,000:1 by the spec which is almost meaningless. I also have a room where contrast differences are noticeable and pictures in my gallery.

It's well known that one has to DOUBLE the native contrast to see a difference than means anything.

The RS500 was around ~40,000:1 native with the iris fully wide. My NP5 is closer to 30,000:1 with the iris wide open and those differences are not even noticeable.


Very, very few
people are going to screw around with a madVR HTPC trying to rip discs, or spend $7-8K on a Lumagen or Envy.

And even then, you're going to need more than a handful of nits. I know people with Lumagen, Envy/MadVR and they keep the JVC iris mostly or fully open. Most people using these have large screens and still appreciate the extra light output. The HDR spec is based around brightness. Most people don't want to watch SDR at 10 ftl either. More people are watching SDR projected much brighter - 20-30ftL more common than before.

Furthermore, the native 4K JVCs are absolutely superior in terms of a cleaner image (eshift adds visible noise), image stability, video processing, more natural image, notably sharper, and better ansi contrast.

Eshift was a good deal back in its day, but it's old and inferior..and the contrast differences are not going to matter in the vast majority of set-ups.

So, having owned both eshift and native 4K JVC(with both pro calibrated) I can speak to living with both unlike yourself spewing your own bias.
LOL you seem EXTREMELY defensive about facing reality mate.
Have you actually compared them? I did, side by side an nz8 vs the rs540.
Both calibrated...there was no question which one had superior contrast. And that is not just me..many similar comparisons with many more people participating say the same thing..what you notice is the contrast and blacks before any resolution differences.
Ansi? if you want that meaningless stat get a DLP then
As far as how many people will want to use madvr...you dont know that nor do I but I wont make bogus statements about it.
I was VERY clear wasnt it? If you do not have a source that can do DTM then skip the next gen...madvr is not the only way to do that. but again, I was VERY clear.
But if you do have DTM then the previous gen will give you more impactful image with the superior CR. No matter how you want to sugar coat it, the previous gen has better contrast ratio that you can see. I am speaking specifically about the RS540, RS640.
Funny how you claim the contrast ration wont matter...even though you can see it from ANY seat in the room..yet you try to make the eshift look bad when it has been tested that at normal viewing distances its hard to tell them apart.
Once again, you are trying way too hard to make something less visible feel like a HUGE advantage and then try to downplay the big contrast ratio difference which can be noticeable no matter at what distance you are sitting. Heck, if I want to play your game I will make a bold claim that most people use such small screens 120" etc, that the resolution difference is even less important than you want to make it.
There is one simple fact..you chose higher res and DTM over superior contrast...that was a compromise you chose and that is fine. But just accept it was a compromise because it was. I chose the higher contrast vs the higher res because it makes a bigger impact and I have DTM so that nullifies the NZ8 advantage in that regard.
I decided to post because I dont like when people make misleading comments to make a point. Stick to facts instead if you want to be helpful.
You may have the last word..
I am out.
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Old 11-10-2022, 09:56 PM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis Gabriel Gerena View Post
LOL you seem EXTREMELY defensive about facing reality mate.
Have you actually compared them? I did, side by side an nz8 vs the rs540.
Both calibrated...there was no question which one had superior contrast. And that is not just me..many similar comparisons with many more people participating say the same thing..what you notice is the contrast and blacks before any resolution differences.
Ansi? if you want that meaningless stat get a DLP then
As far as how many people will want to use madvr...you dont know that nor do I but I wont make bogus statements about it.
I was VERY clear wasnt it? If you do not have a source that can do DTM then skip the next gen...madvr is not the only way to do that. but again, I was VERY clear.
But if you do have DTM then the previous gen will give you more impactful image with the superior CR. No matter how you want to sugar coat it, the previous gen has better contrast ratio that you can see. I am speaking specifically about the RS540, RS640.
Funny how you claim the contrast ration wont matter...even though you can see it from ANY seat in the room..yet you try to make the eshift look bad when it has been tested that at normal viewing distances its hard to tell them apart.
Once again, you are trying way too hard to make something less visible feel like a HUGE advantage and then try to downplay the big contrast ratio difference which can be noticeable no matter at what distance you are sitting. Heck, if I want to play your game I will make a bold claim that most people use such small screens 120" etc, that the resolution difference is even less important than you want to make it.
There is one simple fact..you chose higher res and DTM over superior contrast...that was a compromise you chose and that is fine. But just accept it was a compromise because it was. I chose the higher contrast vs the higher res because it makes a bigger impact and I have DTM so that nullifies the NZ8 advantage in that regard.
I decided to post because I dont like when people make misleading comments to make a point. Stick to facts instead if you want to be helpful.
You may have the last word..
I am out.
Yes, I have compared them. You keep accusing me on something that you're actually doing. Nice try. lol

Again, you have zero data. ~30K vs ~40K contrast is not perceptible to any meaningful degree. If you could get 60K vs 30K it will be seen, but very hard to do on an eshift as most people need more light so the iris has to open. You do not seem to understand how the iris works.

What contrast ratio did you measure on your eshift vs NZ8 at what ftL and which meter?

My RS500 was getting around 40K:1 and my NP5 is closer to 30K in my set-up on HDR. With SDR, the gap was a little wider because I use less light.

I have also been to various home theater meets/comparisons over the last few years. There is a lot of discussion over at AVS around this topic and discussions with people. And many people here in the U.S. have screens well past 120". Bigger is more common. Almost everyone has preferred the native 4K JVC vs the eshift as the contrast difference just isn't there in the real world to where it matters. And the cleaner, sharper image of native 4K is way too apparent.

Nothing I have said is misleading; in fact, it's well-established but feel free to stick with a non-realistic paper contrast number. lol
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Old 11-15-2022, 04:07 PM   #298
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In a completely different forum, in a galaxy far, far away from bluray.com, I'm involved in a thread about these newer JVCs.

No longer the early adopter that I was in my youth, I'm a few years away from upgrading to laser tech. I'll either wait until these units start showing up on the second hand market when the big boys move on to newer tech, or jump back in to the latest and greatest once the wife and I finally move into our "retirement" home.

At any rate, the subject at hand revolves around internal masking. I LOVE a properly masked image and use my older JVCs presets and homemade side panels to perfectly matte each presentation individually on my 133" scope screen. As such, I absolutely HATE the new trend towards variable ratio IMAX discs and am super happy with JVC giving me back in-projector masking just as this fad is increasingly becoming popular. It's a feature that I used years ago on my 3 gun SONY CRT to crop out foreign language subtitles from overseas LaserDiscs ( the only time I was happy to have subtitles out of the frame in the black bars ). Currently, I use it to maintain a single ratio on IMAX discs.

The person I'm conversing with claims that the newer JVCs only mask to 5%. I'm assuming that he's looking at some ridiculous legacy overscan(?) feature. Can one of you guys confirm what the proper masking feature is called and where to find it in the settings?
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Old 11-15-2022, 04:14 PM   #299
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Donít forget to download the latest firmware update. Click here for the latest info on it

JVC Firmware 2.0 Detailed & Explained
https://www.youtube.com/supported_br...tube.com/watch
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Old 11-15-2022, 04:21 PM   #300
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They updated the Calibration program also.

Very excited about the new FW and new AutoCal.
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