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Old 02-28-2016, 08:57 AM   #161
oddbox83 oddbox83 is online now
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I hate it. You get effects like lit windows at night flying in front of houses
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Old 02-28-2016, 08:00 PM   #162
gamermwm gamermwm is offline
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It depends if it is good or bad 2D to 3D conversion. Because not all devices are created equally, you have varying levels of effectiveness. I have been a fan of conversion since I got my first device which had it which was the Samsung D8000 in 2011. I then followed up that purchase that same year with the BD-D6700 bluray player that also converted content. The bluray player did a better job in my opinion.

After the period between 2010-2012, it seems conversion was light years better. I got an exchange on my tv because of a defect for a newer ES8000 which had far better conversion than both my prior D8000 and my BD player. Experiementing with it, and devices from Panasonic, LG, and others around this time confirmed for me that the technology had gotten better all around with less apparent conversion errors and inherent judder during movement.

It was also around this time that JVC started using their newest 2D to 3D conversion technology to actually start converting previously released 2D studio movies such as I Robot and (the much stronger 3D) Predator movie. Results have been mixed admittedly, but when done right such as with Predator 3D; it shows that it can work well enough; and that in itself is quite a feat.

My best experience ever with 3D has been with the Benq W1500 Projector. It does 2D to 3D conversion better than any device I've ever owned, and if you are a fan of converted material, you've got to check it out on a Benq projector that includes the feature.

Conversion is a relatively new technology, but has progressed leaps and bounds. It gets a bad rap from those who saw it in early iterations, and from those who think it is actually supposed to be on par with real 3D content which it obviously not meant to replace. But for what it is, it's worth taking a second look if you have it available on a newer device.

Last edited by gamermwm; 02-28-2016 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 02-29-2016, 01:33 PM   #163
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I've always used a PS3 for playback, never knew a player could do 3D conversion.
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Old 02-29-2016, 03:42 PM   #164
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When I first got my TV I thought this feature was really cool. However a few years and over a hundred 3D blu rays later and I find auto conversions unwatchable. They look so so bad compared to real 3D. It just splits the picture up into clumsy layers.
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Old 02-29-2016, 04:20 PM   #165
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I've had 3D tvs and players for 4 or 5 years now and have never tried that feature
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Old 02-29-2016, 04:50 PM   #166
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Huh. I should try this again sometime. I have an Oppo BDP-103 which I used once to convert Disney's Princess and the Frog, and it turned out looking like a Picasso. Some things that were supposed to be in the back were in the front, some supposed to be in the front were in the back, and weird things like features on a character's face getting all mixed up in this way, resulting in weird conversion issues like concave faces and such. I was pretty disappointed and vowed to just do 3d mastered blu-rays from then on.

Reading this, though, gives me hope they made some advancements in the firmware or I just picked the wrong disc. Maybe I'll try again soon.
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Old 03-02-2016, 06:15 PM   #167
gamermwm gamermwm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrutz View Post
Huh. I should try this again sometime. I have an Oppo BDP-103 which I used once to convert Disney's Princess and the Frog, and it turned out looking like a Picasso. Some things that were supposed to be in the back were in the front, some supposed to be in the front were in the back, and weird things like features on a character's face getting all mixed up in this way, resulting in weird conversion issues like concave faces and such. I was pretty disappointed and vowed to just do 3d mastered blu-rays from then on.

Reading this, though, gives me hope they made some advancements in the firmware or I just picked the wrong disc. Maybe I'll try again soon.
Animation is the worst thing you can try and convert. I would recommend drama and slow moving scenes, and if you want to watch an action movie just make sure you also turn on frame interpolation/motion smoothing
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Old 03-03-2016, 07:45 AM   #168
levcore levcore is offline
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Can this tech ever look good? I mean 2D discs have literally no information on them to inform the TV/ player about what goes where in the frame. What should be further back and what should be in the foreground. The TV or player just has to completely guess and break up the image into presumed layers which rarely ever look right.

I could totally understand someone very new to 3D thinking this was a cool feature, I certainly did when I got my first TV. I literally can't watch the auto convert though these days as my eyes are so used to proper stereoscopic 3D that auto converts just look horrendous with wobbly layers and faces all broken up into different depth planes.
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Old 03-04-2016, 12:30 AM   #169
gamermwm gamermwm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levcore View Post
Can this tech ever look good?
In my opinion yes absolutely, unless you are expecting pop outs. But user control to optimize the look and effect is crucial. It's not as simple as "is the 2D to 3D conversion good or not" on such and such device. While there is a yes or no answer to that question for each device (and each device can be more or less effective) user controls of the 3D settings can either ruin or make your experience entirely.

This is why the average layman dismisses this technology. But I think the more open minded among us would not hastily dismiss any new technology, especially when recent gains have been made in its effectiveness and implementation.

So if one were to outright dismiss 2D to 3D conversion I would ask 3 questions:

1. Which device(s) did you use
2. What year were said devices made
3. Do you have experience (and experimentation/knowledge regarding the optimal 3D settings) on several 2D to 3D converting devices to help round out those claims?

I don't know if you have ever heard of Stream TV and their Ultra D glasses free 3Dtv sets using 4K panels. I don't know when/if it will be ready for world wide release but my point in bringing it up is that the highly esteemed reviewer on AVS found it quite capable of devlering real and accurate 2D to 3D conversion on the fly. So that would answer your question as to whether the tech can "ever look good". Here's what Mark wrote regarding the conversion on the prototype tv he viewed:

Quote:
Finding the right 3D Factor is a crucial step; at higher settings, I continuously saw glitches in the 3D rendering—for example, a character's face that should be sharp would be blurry.

Using optimized settings made those artifacts go away, which in turn made it easy to watch a movie in 3D (I checked out Man of Steel) or a TV show like Cosmos converted to 3D by the TV—that looked quite amazing.

I can scarcely believe it how pleasing the 2D-to-3D conversion was during spaceflight scenes showing stars and planets and galaxies. Even Neil deGrasse Tyson looked properly proportioned and three-dimensional standing in his spaceship of the imagination. Ultra-D literally added a new dimension to the viewing experience!
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...xperience.html

While noting the possible negative aspects initially, he then said that he optimized the 3D settings and the end result was a very satisfactory experience. I would say this is the case with any device with 2D to 3D conversion (besides some of the early 3D devices that were release before the technology was improved upon). User optimization is required.

I did a write up on AVS about the 2D to 3D conversion of my Benq W1500. Here is what I said below:

Quote:
Another new owner here. I had a 1080ST which I loved, but wanted 2D to 3D conversion. I know this feature doesn't matter a lot to most, but to 3D enthusiasts it adds a welcome dynamic; when done right. I had been looking at getting a 3D Bee converter at one time, but wasn't happy with the specs, the ~$300 price tag, the way you have to connect everything to it, and the lower resolutions it outputs. So I went in pretty optimistic with respect to the Benq W1500 and its 2D-3D conversion. I've seen good conversion to bad conversion to excellent conversion on various devices, and I'm happy to report the W1500 is in the excellent conversion category. My Samsung television is also an excellent converter for its 55" screen size. But hooked up to a projector on a 100" screen my external Samsung Bluray player's conversion was crap. I then knew I needed a device with built in conversion, made to handle a very large screen size with quality conversion that would hold up to such scrutiny. In this category the W1500 did not dissapoint

When converting, the 3D scale runs on a scale of -10 all the way to +10. The default is +5. When you take your glasses off and look at a converted image, you immediately notice that a setting of +3 or so gives you very little separation of images/depth, so that's actually your zero. Then as you go up in the positive bracket towards +10, the images separate more as the depth field increases and everything is pushed further back on the z axis, into the screen. This is your less intense "Disney movie conversion" type of 3D effect that doesn't add pop up, but plenty of good solid depth and is relativey easy on the eyes. Again +5 is the default and adds a very mild yet engaging depth with very little eye fatigue compared to stronger settings. Where the built in converter shines though is a setting of +7 to +10

Now onto negative parallax and things being pushed out of the screen. A setting of 0 will give you a mild comfortable effect. Anywhere beyond that, from -1 all the way to -10 is more intense but you may find that it will fatigue your eyes a lot faster. But rather than everything being pushed back into the screen (ala a screen door and/or looking through a window effect) everything is being pushed out towards you as the axis moves out not in. Closeups of people and objects may cause them to sit on a plane outside of the screen. Watch the studio conversion of Jurassic Park 3D and you will see what I mean. It is a beauty in 3D and the best studio conversion I have ever seen with not only pop out - but lots of negative parallax and things happening/being positioned out of screen. These minus settings may add little "pop out" effects in a traditional sense, as a baseball thrown toward the screen might not look like it's going to come all the way out and hit you in the nose - but you would need a bluray 3D for that kind of effect. This is top notch for what it is, and it's a gimmick in and of itself that mostly works

Yes, there are conversion errors, but that's impossible to eliminate on the whole and that is why even with JVC's more expensive Movie Studio auto-converting software there is some quality control present and someone is there to add some real pop out effects with objects when needed and check for conversion errors. I give the W1500 an A in conversion and unless you don't like the feature or 3D much in the first place, or are already negatively inclined, or just the pickiest of picky people - you should find you like it as well. Just keep in mind that the Frame Interpolation is your friend and makes the juddery effect of fast motion and camera pans (which for some reason is more sickeningly bad when watching converted material) more manageable and almost a non issue for the most part
Is 2D to 3D conversion effective? That's complicated because I'd say the experience varies from device to device and from person to person.

Last edited by gamermwm; 03-04-2016 at 12:56 AM.
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Old 03-04-2016, 03:25 AM   #170
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I actually did this with Beetlejuice a few months back... some flat spots but overall it worked pretty good.

I also use this feature sometimes when I watch a baseball game, I think that works well, you can feel the distance between the pitcher and home plate
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Old 03-05-2016, 07:10 AM   #171
AllOuttaBubbleGum AllOuttaBubbleGum is offline
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LG's 2D to 3D system featured in their sets from 2012 and '13 is pretty good (haven't had experience with anything later); somehow more "rounded" and dimensional looking than the Panasonic player-based tech I've played around with (on the DMP-BDT220 and 230). I think this has something to do with LG's "Depth" slider, because when I roll it back to zero...the image takes on the flatter look of the Panasonic process. I nudge it up to 11--one notch above default on their 0 to 20 scale--and I set "Viewpoint" at +3 on their + or - 10 adjustment (centered is the default). Anything on the positive side projects, anything south of the border folds in. For me, the concave 3D seems a little better layered than the convex performance, which doesn't feel like it's as differentiated. But both offer a fairly distinctive and noticeable effect...even at these modest settings. A little dab will do you; going to extremes isn't necessarily going to get you much farther than careful, conservative settings.

I've found that a string of hi def commercials offers a good chance to see how the system works with a variety of imagery. Sometimes I'll pause a particular shot when whatever depth mapping algorithm in play has an especially good guess at positioning objects; I'm impressed by how it comes together on-the-fly. Other times, as with any of these systems, I'll be looking past something inappropriately floating in the foreground that should be far, far away (usually brightly lit objects, luminance being part of what the converter factors into likelihood of being closer to the viewer). But I can't complain about the misses when it works as well as it does so much of the time.

One other thing: Because conversion doesn't offer the dynamic changes in depth that natively shot material does, sometimes I'll mix it up during a film and change from subtly projecting 3D to folding in to keep from getting used to the effect. That begins to happen right after you put the glasses on, even with the best designed natively shot material, which also works to counter the audience growing numb by jarring it back into "3D awareness" every once in a while with a big shift in depth.

If 3D had really taken off, I would have loved to see how live conversion systems might have improved over the years as companies invested more in development than they probably are now.

Last edited by AllOuttaBubbleGum; 03-05-2016 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 03-05-2016, 11:18 PM   #172
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Really the only movie I have watched in 3D converted from 2D is Star Trek (2009) it wasnt to bad.
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Old 03-06-2016, 03:36 PM   #173
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I like using the 2D-3D converter on my Panasonic BDT 110 3D Player with my Benq MW519 3D projector. I set my Pana's 2D-3D converter to -5 and my projector to it's biggest screen image in Presentation mode. I was shocked when I saw the converted image to the Star Wars Blu-Rays. It had some ghosting but, overall not bad. I tried it on the 2D Clash of the Titans remake. (3D disc didn't play good.) The converted 3D by my player was better than the 3D disc. I have used it with Red Dawn 84, Star Trek 2009, The Lord of the Rings Extended Edition Trilogy (As good as the Star Wars conversions), Battlestar Galactica Remake-Good, Battlestar Galactica 1978-OK. For DV.Ds I either set the converter to -3 or leave it on Normal. Normal setting works better for DVDs.
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Old 03-17-2016, 03:51 AM   #174
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Decidedly to watch TRON (1982) as converted to 3D by my 2015 LG.

I have to say, I was pretty impressed. Felt like I was watching a real 3D movie (mostly).

I switched back and forth between Standard and Cinema (stronger depth), but decided to stick with Standard.

With a newer, cleaner source...going with Cinema might have worked well.

Next time I'll try something newer..

I've had about three firmware updates since I got this set, maybe LG's been improving their engine.

The TV has also started boosting my Picture settings when entering 3D mode recently (or maybe I just never noticed).

When I enter 3D mode now, it automatically sets my backlight to 85.

Wish I had given this another try sooner, I just blew thru Game of Thrones S1 last week.

That would've been an interesting test of the conversion tech.

Last edited by Frank@Chicago; 03-17-2016 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 03-17-2016, 02:07 PM   #175
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The only one I tried was the Nightmare on Elm Street remake (Sony 4K, 55-inch, passive 3D). It was okay -- it gave the film some "depth," but with these recommendations, I'll try some of the others.

I'll definitely try TRON now, Frank.
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Old 03-18-2016, 10:57 PM   #176
AllOuttaBubbleGum AllOuttaBubbleGum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank@Chicago View Post
Decidedly to watch TRON (1982) as converted to 3D by my 2015 LG.

I have to say, I was pretty impressed. Felt like I was watching a real 3D movie (mostly).

I switched back and forth between Standard and Cinema (stronger depth), but decided to stick with Standard.

With a newer, cleaner source...going with Cinema might have worked well.

Next time I'll try something newer..


Tron sounds like a good bet; it's not as visually busy as a lot of modern films, so the system might have a better success rate in figuring out the subject, background, etc. I've had pretty good results with anything with an obvious subject in the foreground...and a simple background that's not too dark.

Have you tried the flip-side of Cinema mode? In your manual settings, select the same Depth, and a +3 Viewpoint. If things look distorted, you can lower Depth to a +1 or 2...
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Old 03-20-2016, 08:58 AM   #177
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Well last night I watched Jaws 3 using the 2D to 3D conversin setting on my TV. Sadly it was not very good at all. mostly flat with some good depth here and there. Sadly no pop outs.
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Old 03-20-2016, 03:12 PM   #178
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I have to say I'm loving the whole 'convert to 3D' thing lately since it frees me up to watch whatever I want.

Put on Oblivion using LG's cinema setting (moderate 3D) and it opened up the movie signicantly.

It's actually amazing to me how well this works and makes me even question previous 3D purchase that were considered weaker efforts (Predator 3D).

Oblivion has alot natural vistas and super-clean high-tech spaces which translated to 3D very well.

It also had a slower pace that allows you to enjoy the 3D. Very nice conversion material.

Also watched Total Recall (2012) as converted 3D with somewhat different results.

This movie has a strong cast and the movie works rather well, if you can let go of the old one while watching.

However, the first third of the movie is wall-to-wall violence that never stops moving.

Once the movie slows down to catch it's breath, the 3D conversion starts to pay off.

I'd still watch this one converted to 3D, because that fits the futurist vibe and sci-fi setting, but you have to wait a bit for the 3D to catch up.

Last edited by Frank@Chicago; 03-20-2016 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 03-20-2016, 08:51 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizz View Post
Well last night I watched Jaws 3 using the 2D to 3D conversin setting on my TV. Sadly it was not very good at all. mostly flat with some good depth here and there. Sadly no pop outs.
Yep you're not going to get pop out with this technology.

But if you set your device to stronger negative parallax however (look for - or negative settings for depth), on certain devices, you can get people and objects to sit just outside the screen. The plus + settings usually push things further in
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Old 03-21-2016, 07:53 AM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamermwm View Post
Yep you're not going to get pop out with this technology.

But if you set your device to stronger negative parallax however (look for - or negative settings for depth), on certain devices, you can get people and objects to sit just outside the screen. The plus + settings usually push things further in

Thanks for the info. I will give that ago.
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