The Official Epik Subwoofer Owners Thread

[Kali157]

Originally Posted by red_5ive

Sorry, not defending it Kali . I actually agree on the amp failure thing even if it can't handle the larger room why the faliure? I had started typing about that before I posted, but edited it out. No, I won't get a thermometer out as I'm not really here to try and prove anything .

Fine, fine don't post the temp. In all seriousness, the reason I am curious is b/c I am trying to figure out if the amount of heat is exaggerated or a valid point of concern. Reminds me of when I was looking at getting my Onkyo. People would post that you can fry an egg on it. Well, when I got it, I stuck a computer thermometer w/ 3 temp probes (helps to be a computer nerd). Never got excessively hot.

Not trying to prove anything either. Just want to know if the Legend should stay off my short list.

BTW, what happened to your gallery? I liked your Rockets Sigs

[red_5ive]

Originally Posted by Kali157

Fine, fine don't post the temp. In all seriousness, the reason I am curious is b/c I am trying to figure out if the amount of heat is exaggerated or a valid point of concern. Reminds me of when I was looking at getting my Onkyo. People would post that you can fry an egg on it. Well, when I got it, I stuck a computer thermometer w/ 3 temp probes (helps to be a computer nerd). Never got excessively hot.

Not trying to prove anything either. Just want to know if the Legend should stay off my short list.

BTW, what happened to your gallery? I liked your Rockets Sigs

Ok, that case I'll give it a try tonight and post back the results. Besides, I could use the excuse to watch The Island again (for the 4th time since it release lol), and at 1:35:00 into the film when the train-wheel scene begins the amp will be plenty warm. As for your short list, didn't you pick up the LFM sub? Or am I thinking about someone else? I thought we talked about that.

I took my gallery down a few months ago, as I... ahem... tried to quit this place LOL. I was on here too much (too much for me, anyway). However, as you can see it didn't work . I've been thinking of putting it back up. Thanks for the interest.

[ReggaetonSalsero]

Originally Posted by Kali157

Yeah, I stopped pestering my friend to get the Legend specifically b/c of what we have been reading about the amps. When I was shopping for my sub, the Legend was just coming out. One of my concerns was the one amp (w/ significantly less power compared to the Empires) driving 2 drivers. What troubles me a little is how the amount of heat coming off these amps is being brushed off by the company as a non-issue (posted in AVS). From what I have read, some people have reported that the plate gets quite uncomfortable to the touch. I am new to the whole HT scene, but I have been working with computers/servers for years. Excessive heat is a sign of a component being pushed too hard or not given adequate means of dissipating heat or BOTH. That said, even if this state does not cause immediate failure, it will definitely affect (shorten) the component's lifespan. I have experienced this countless times with server PSU's. Moreover, you do not want to run components constantly at their limit.

Has anyone check how hot it gets? Reggaeton, do you have a thermometer? Like one of those infrared guns? Just curious. Maybe the Legend need a beefier amp for a little more headroom or adding a heatsink. I personally would rather have it cost a little more than have a strained amp that may fail in a few years.

Hey there, no sorry i don't have a heat gun. I know that both amps got so hot that the minute i touch it, i couldn't handle more than just a second. I did talk to chad about it and i did explain tell him that i've never had an amp or sub get that hot before and that it worried me but he said the sub is made to handle the amp and the amp is made rated as something, fc something or whatever i'm not sure but he said it's not a big deal. I do know when the sub is working, it's a great sub, but i will not lie, that VERY hot amp does worry me. Chad did say he will take care of me and not to worry and after these 2 amps that didn't work, he just finished testing out a completey new sub for me and sent it out today and said this new sub coming should take care of it. I hope so. If not, he said he would give me back my money including my shipping cost. I will admit, this is a LOT of hassle and after a month i'm still without a completely working sub BUT he is taking care of it although this is a lot slower than i'm used to as i'm from NY and we NYorkers like our stuff done fast LOL. I can't fault him as he is making the effort. I'll keep u posted on this next sub when i get it but i sure do hope the amp doesn't get so hot as the get MUCH hotter than the older onkyo receivers.

[ReggaetonSalsero]

Originally Posted by Kali157

That isn't comforting. You do have a good point: I wonder what level Reggaeton set his Legend. But I don't want to start making excuses for the product. If you cannot play it loud, then they should limit the sub? But then why the hell would anyone pay $600 for a sub that cannot play at the levels they wish? What if the room is slightly bigger? Any sub will have to be set higher to achieve desired, level-matched output. Will the Legend's amp fail in a bigger room?

Prodigious amounts of heat doesn't seem like damage occurring during shipping as Karen indicated. Having 2 amps fail the same way seems even less likely that the issue is with shipment handling. Moreover, this isn't the only incident of excessive heat, which by forum responses and Chad's emails in AVS seems to be standard. Again, I am concerned that Epik is just passing the blame along without dealing with the actual issue. Again, excessive issues will have a higher probability of failure in the near future.

To answer ur question, the sub itself or the amp of the sub is at the HALF point. I always keep it the sub's control knob on half. In the receivers menu...it can set the sub from -15...to 0....to +15.....positive 15 being the loudest base the receiver can dish out and negative 15 being the lowest. I have the receiver set to 0. I haven't tried it with the full +15. So with 0 on the receiver and half on the knob/amp knob, i get decent base....i don't go more than that only cause i'm afraid of pushing it and it turning off cause with those settings the amp gets VERY hot where i cannot touch it at all. I am not lying when i tell u i can cook an EGG on it lol. When i get the new sub, i am going to PUSH it to make SURE i am getting a sub that won't disappoint as i LOVE watching movies in a LOUD environment. And my room is SMALL.

[ReggaetonSalsero]

Originally Posted by red_5ive

I'm not trying to defend Epik here, but I think it might help them if they added additional information on their website in regards to the particular application for which the Legend is intended. I spoke with Chad Kuypers at Epik (great guy by the way) on several occasions before I picked up my Legend, and what I got out of the discussions is the Legend is not intended for large rooms or for "heavy" applications. That's where the Empire steps in. I'm using my Legend in a 10x12 enclosed room, and although the amp does feel hot to touch when running, I don't feel I'm pushing it beyond its capabilities. The Legend is more than capable in this application in my second setup, but I wouldn't put it to work in my main setup.

Oh wow i thought i had a SMALL room but urs is smaller by far at 10x12....mine is 12 X 18. The bass does NOT pound with the settings i have on it so in a way i'm disappointed cause i want it to really pound and push up the base but since it gets so hot already i don't want to mess it up BUT Kali is right, why pay 600 bucks for a sub if i can't push it to the level or sound i need for my room. So when i get the new sub i'm going to make sure i can blast it loud and if it can't handle it, then i know it's only for smaller rooms and i will send it back, chad is very cool so he told me WHATEVER issue i have he will take it back and give me a full refund. i really am hoping it does work this time and as loud as i want to hear it.

[ReggaetonSalsero]

Originally Posted by de Rookie

I'll chime in here as well. I've had a few issues with my Legend which Epik was very quick to help resolve. Chad and Karen have been great and I haven't had any issues with communication. Karen's response above is very well stated and from personal experience, I know their customer service is top notch.

Over all my Legend is working. And let me tell you, it's REALLY working. My walls are getting a workout and I'm pretty sure my dog is going deaf, haha. Last night was 2 movies back to back and some music afterward. I'll try to have a review up on my Legend soon.

On to the amp. I could see where a 300W Legend amp powering two 12" drivers can run hot. Compared to the 600W amp powering the Empire, mathematically speaking it makes sense. Of course there are other variables such as driver efficiency that are involved, but I can see why Empire owners don't talk about the heat.

It's very unfortunate ReggaetonSalsero is having this experience with his Legend. We all know how frustrating problems can be, especially when it's a quality product that you've researched for ages before making the purchasing decision. That being said, I can see ReggaetonSalsero's point of view. I'm sure there are other parts to the story as well, but the customer is #1, no matter how you look at things. Regardless of the final outcome, be it return or resolution, I believe that Epik will help out in any way possible.

I think the one thing we all forget is the large amount of working Legends there are out in the field. The nature of the beast with any internet-direct company is as soon as there is a problem, you'll see posts galore about it. It easily gets thrown under the microscope because a large part of their customers come from boards like Blu-Ray, AVSForum, etc. So even if there are 20 people talking about issues and/or failures, there are still thousands of happy users. A small percent of owners can make for a big voice, which is awesome, but can often exaggerate problems when they arise. We could easily be talking about a 1% or less failure rate. That's better than the PS3 and XBOX, haha.

Could shipping damage cause heat? I would say there's a chance. If for some reason the unit really got jarred, and connections came loose or a capacitor took a dive, that could easily cause the amp to overheat and break. It still could be a problem with the amps, but with so many working ones in the field, it could be harder for Epik to judge and diagnose. I'm sure that's why their having amp failures returned instead of field-scrapped.

I work in an industry that has a much higher failure rate for products. I see it every day and know how customers drive your business. It's how you react to those failures and customers that can make or break you. I think in Epik's case (and my company's ) , they're doing a great job.

Wow, sorry about the wall of text.

Cliff notes: Problems stink, Epik's helpful, things happen, confident all will get resolved.

I agree with what ur saying bud except for one thing, let's say it is 1% out of the hundreds that have this legend working great.....ur not one of the 1%, i am, and THAT is the difference here. Ur good with urs, i haven't been for over a Month. I bet if it was u, 2 different amps, over a month and still...u'd be pissed off. That the way it is for a lot of people. There is always an opinion or comment BUT when it's U that is getting the aggrevation, it's a different story. People state how others would react but unless they are going through it, they don't really know how they themselves would react. Yeah u can say u wouldn't react a certain way, but when u don't have 600 bucks to burn and u burn it anyway on a Novelty item cause this is not mandatory, and ur over a month with 2 amps and a sub still not working right for u cause u can't push it, u can say u will react cool or understand. I think i'm being quite calm and cool for a Nyorker LOL. Like i said, chad is MEGA COOL...i won't take that away from Chad AND i do LIKE the sub, when it's working. This time i'll push it and if it give me no problems, i'll be happy, if not, chad is willing to give me back my cash, ok i'll chalk it up to it was just not in the cards for me, but it doesn't change the hassle or aggrevation. Maybe i should call chad and ask him to put in an EMPIRE amp.....do u think that would fix the issue with the heat or pushing the drivers?

[ReggaetonSalsero]

Originally Posted by Kali157

Fine, fine don't post the temp. In all seriousness, the reason I am curious is b/c I am trying to figure out if the amount of heat is exaggerated or a valid point of concern. Reminds me of when I was looking at getting my Onkyo. People would post that you can fry an egg on it. Well, when I got it, I stuck a computer thermometer w/ 3 temp probes (helps to be a computer nerd). Never got excessively hot.

Not trying to prove anything either. Just want to know if the Legend should stay off my short list.

BTW, what happened to your gallery? I liked your Rockets Sigs

Wow Kali, great home theater system u have there. I saw u had an onkyo....does it get hot? I have the newer 609 and i needed to put a small fan on it cause it gets hot....not so hot that u can fry an egg like the legends amp......but hot enough that i would want to keep it cool. MY old denon 4308, or my yamaha receivers never got hot enough that i needed a fan, only all of the onkyos, i had the onkyos 605, 606, 702,802, 902 i THINK u call it don't remember but they all got so hot that they turned off after a while. This one, the 609 has behaved the best of all the onkyos i've owned. I've never needed a fan with a denon or yamaha. I put a fan on the Legends amp, but i notice it doesn't help too much. I don't know but when i swapped one amp for the second one, it was MEGA TIGHT in there. There is no head room to fit a small fan in there if u wanted to. It was hard just to take out the amp from the sub cause it was like all this suction/pressure happening in there. I am eally hoping it works loud. U think my room is too big for legend and that is why i'm having issues? Cause the size of the room is too big for the amp/legend to work on high or in my case, middle ground?

[Kali157]

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

Wow Kali, great home theater system u have there. I saw u had an onkyo....does it get hot? I have the newer 609 and i needed to put a small fan on it cause it gets hot....not so hot that u can fry an egg like the legends amp......but hot enough that i would want to keep it cool. MY old denon 4308, or my yamaha receivers never got hot enough that i needed a fan, only all of the onkyos, i had the onkyos 605, 606, 702,802, 902 i THINK u call it don't remember but they all got so hot that they turned off after a while. This one, the 609 has behaved the best of all the onkyos i've owned. I've never needed a fan with a denon or yamaha. I put a fan on the Legends amp, but i notice it doesn't help too much. I don't know but when i swapped one amp for the second one, it was MEGA TIGHT in there. There is no head room to fit a small fan in there if u wanted to. It was hard just to take out the amp from the sub cause it was like all this suction/pressure happening in there. I am eally hoping it works loud. U think my room is too big for legend and that is why i'm having issues? Cause the size of the room is too big for the amp/legend to work on high or in my case, middle ground?

The highest my Onkyo 707 got in my cabinet was right under 134 F. When I got an amp, the hottest it got was under 130 F. Never had it suddenly turn off. My dad is running an Onkyo as well and he never had temp problems either.

That said, if your amp plate is hot to the touch (ie you cannot keep your hand there), then your amp is definitely being pushed too hard (someone correct me if I am wrong). I cannot imagine how this state would be "normal." Moreover, I find this worrisome since the sub does not seem to be set too high. With this amount of heat, your amp will not last very long even if it does not immediately fail.

Personally, I don't think you should be providing additional cooling for your sub... unless you have it in a very tight, enclosed space (which I do not think you do). The amp should be matched properly to drive the load and be provided with adequate means of dissipating heat on its own.

And no, I do not think your room is too big for a sub in this range. That is ridiculous if that is implied. Again, if the sub is too small or not powerful enough for a room size, I would assume it will just be inadequate to pressurize the room... not suffer amp failure. But again, your room is not that big.

I hope your replacement fares better. But again, even if it does not immediately fail, I would still be concerned about the heat if it remains the same.

Oh and thanks for the compliments on my gallery. Have been and will be making some more changes soon.

[Kali157]

Originally Posted by red_5ive

Ok, that case I'll give it a try tonight and post back the results. Besides, I could use the excuse to watch The Island again (for the 4th time since it release lol), and at 1:35:00 into the film when the train-wheel scene begins the amp will be plenty warm. As for your short list, didn't you pick up the LFM sub? Or am I thinking about someone else? I thought we talked about that.

I took my gallery down a few months ago, as I... ahem... tried to quit this place LOL. I was on here too much (too much for me, anyway). However, as you can see it didn't work . I've been thinking of putting it back up. Thanks for the interest.

Yes I got an Outlaw sub. But friends and family are always asking me for my recommendations on components. I may also upgrade my HT fronts and move the Empteks to a 2.1 channel room (either around the kitchen/dining area or the loft). So you never know when I will be looking for a sub for myself or others.

[de Rookie]

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

I agree with what ur saying bud except for one thing, let's say it is 1% out of the hundreds that have this legend working great.....ur not one of the 1%, i am, and THAT is the difference here. Ur good with urs, i haven't been for over a Month. I bet if it was u, 2 different amps, over a month and still...u'd be pissed off. That the way it is for a lot of people. There is always an opinion or comment BUT when it's U that is getting the aggrevation, it's a different story. People state how others would react but unless they are going through it, they don't really know how they themselves would react. Yeah u can say u wouldn't react a certain way, but when u don't have 600 bucks to burn and u burn it anyway on a Novelty item cause this is not mandatory, and ur over a month with 2 amps and a sub still not working right for u cause u can't push it, u can say u will react cool or understand. I think i'm being quite calm and cool for a Nyorker LOL. Like i said, chad is MEGA COOL...i won't take that away from Chad AND i do LIKE the sub, when it's working. This time i'll push it and if it give me no problems, i'll be happy, if not, chad is willing to give me back my cash, ok i'll chalk it up to it was just not in the cards for me, but it doesn't change the hassle or aggrevation. Maybe i should call chad and ask him to put in an EMPIRE amp.....do u think that would fix the issue with the heat or pushing the drivers?

Actually, I am part of that 1%, just like you. I am on my second amp but I believe it is working 100% now. I'm testing things out and don't want to jump the gun posting anything and giving out bad info. But PM me for more details.

Where we differ is I have another sub. So I just used it and I had no actual downtime other than not getting to play with my new toy, which did really suck.

I completely understand your frustration, believe me. I've been in the same boat with this and other things (TVs, cars, you name it). In this case since I had another functioning sub it wasn't quite as drastic for me.

Basically, I had about two weeks of Legend downtime from date of receipt. The originally installed amp would only stay on for 10 minutes. I didn't have time to get with Epik right away, then you factor in 2-3 days of ship time, finding time to install the new amp, and it added up to two weeks pretty quick. I'm past the one month of ownership mark and just now have it going hopefully 100%. But the entire time Epik has been in contact and has allowed me to tinker and test. I probably could have cut some time off of that, but I like to test things out and come up with theories, haha.

What stinks is the time it takes to resolve issues like these. You have initial contact, time it takes to reply, testing time, shipping time, more testing time. It adds up REALLY quick. It's not like buying something locally where you can just talk to a manager and get it swapped out the same day. But Epik has been very responsive and proactive so I'm pretty chill about the whole process.

Because of Epik's track record and my personal dealings with them I have complete faith they will take care of all of us with problems. And I know I'm sounding like a fan-boy here, but my friend has an Epik Tower he got a few years back. I had never heard of Epik and was really impressed that he was chatting it up with Chad with research questions. I've also heard similar stories about Dr. Hsu and his company. It's stories like those that put my mind at ease.

I'm not sure what an Empire amp would do and if it's even the same size and same screw pattern. Personally I think since it was designed for the 15" dual driver application it could pose problems with the Legend. Post up what Chad says on that

Good luck to you and keep us posted.

Oh, one quick aside. My JBL E250P runs hotter than my Legend (*cough* especially after I added poly-fil a few months ago *cough*, haha). Just food for thought.

[ReggaetonSalsero]

Yes i must say that Chad is a SUPER COOL GREAT person. I cannot disagree with u on that. The man is COOL. Like i said, we New Yorkers want our stuff right away LOL. We don't like waiting lol. I'm not used to waiting over a month and still not have a fully functional item. I am used to walking into the store and getting it replaced. But yeah i'll keep u posted.

Hmmmmmm, u say ur other amp gets hotter than ur epik amp? Is ur epik amp getting so hot that u cannot touch it cause right away it's like an instant burn if u leave it there past a second? I THINK the amps have 2 or 3 year warranty on them right? I'm dying to get the replacement sub so i can crank it with a few blu rays. Gonna throw a heavy barbecue and if it fails, i'll be teh laughing stock of the barbecue LOL. I'm actually planning on cranking it up on the receivers end from zero to maybe positive 10 or 15......and dial down the knob on the sub from half to a quarter. What do u think?

Originally Posted by de Rookie

Actually, I am part of that 1%, just like you. I am on my second amp but I believe it is working 100% now. I'm testing things out and don't want to jump the gun posting anything and giving out bad info. But PM me for more details.

Where we differ is I have another sub. So I just used it and I had no actual downtime other than not getting to play with my new toy, which did really suck.

I completely understand your frustration, believe me. I've been in the same boat with this and other things (TVs, cars, you name it). In this case since I had another functioning sub it wasn't quite as drastic for me.

Basically, I had about two weeks of Legend downtime from date of receipt. The originally installed amp would only stay on for 10 minutes. I didn't have time to get with Epik right away, then you factor in 2-3 days of ship time, finding time to install the new amp, and it added up to two weeks pretty quick. I'm past the one month of ownership mark and just now have it going hopefully 100%. But the entire time Epik has been in contact and has allowed me to tinker and test. I probably could have cut some time off of that, but I like to test things out and come up with theories, haha.

What stinks is the time it takes to resolve issues like these. You have initial contact, time it takes to reply, testing time, shipping time, more testing time. It adds up REALLY quick. It's not like buying something locally where you can just talk to a manager and get it swapped out the same day. But Epik has been very responsive and proactive so I'm pretty chill about the whole process.

Because of Epik's track record and my personal dealings with them I have complete faith they will take care of all of us with problems. And I know I'm sounding like a fan-boy here, but my friend has an Epik Tower he got a few years back. I had never heard of Epik and was really impressed that he was chatting it up with Chad with research questions. I've also heard similar stories about Dr. Hsu and his company. It's stories like those that put my mind at ease.

I'm not sure what an Empire amp would do and if it's even the same size and same screw pattern. Personally I think since it was designed for the 15" dual driver application it could pose problems with the Legend. Post up what Chad says on that

Good luck to you and keep us posted.

Oh, one quick aside. My JBL E250P runs hotter than my Legend (*cough* especially after I added poly-fil a few months ago *cough*, haha). Just food for thought.

[red_5ive]

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

Oh wow i thought i had a SMALL room but urs is smaller by far at 10x12....mine is 12 X 18. The bass does NOT pound with the settings i have on it so in a way i'm disappointed cause i want it to really pound and push up the base but since it gets so hot already i don't want to mess it up BUT Kali is right, why pay 600 bucks for a sub if i can't push it to the level or sound i need for my room. So when i get the new sub i'm going to make sure i can blast it loud and if it can't handle it, then i know it's only for smaller rooms and i will send it back, chad is very cool so he told me WHATEVER issue i have he will take it back and give me a full refund. i really am hoping it does work this time and as loud as i want to hear it.

Note though I did indicate this is a 2nd setup. The Legend performs very well in this room, but I wouldn't use it in my living room setup as I have an open floor plan. I should also note that I'm not a "bass head" and don't run my subs overly hot. I'm wondering then if you're expecting a little much out of the Legend since it's a sealed design? Generally a ported sub will yield more db/output. By comparison, my Legend doesn't "pound" as well as my MFW-15 sub which is ported (though it's not really a fair comparison from an SPL standpoint, but that's not the point I'm trying to make). Nevertheless, I think the Legend is very well balanced for music and HT, but if you really want the SPL then maybe consider a ported sub.

[red_5ive]

Originally Posted by Kali157

Yes I got an Outlaw sub. But friends and family are always asking me for my recommendations on components. I may also upgrade my HT fronts and move the Empteks to a 2.1 channel room (either around the kitchen/dining area or the loft). So you never know when I will be looking for a sub for myself or others.

Ag, gotcha. In that respect I don't think I'd recommend The Legend for a main setup (medium to larger room), especially if the person is a "bass head".

Also, I didn't get to take a temp reading as my thermometer has a dead battery. I'll pick up a battery this weekend. My gallery is also back up, btw.

[de Rookie]

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

Like i said, we New Yorkers want our stuff right away LOL. We don't like waiting lol.

Hell, I'm from Jersey. We're way worse over there, haha.

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

Hmmmmmm, u say ur other amp gets hotter than ur epik amp? Is ur epik amp getting so hot that u cannot touch it cause right away it's like an instant burn if u leave it there past a second? I THINK the amps have 2 or 3 year warranty on them right? I'm dying to get the replacement sub so i can crank it with a few blu rays. Gonna throw a heavy barbecue and if it fails, i'll be teh laughing stock of the barbecue LOL. I'm actually planning on cranking it up on the receivers end from zero to maybe positive 10 or 15......and dial down the knob on the sub from half to a quarter. What do u think?

Yeah, my other amp has historically run hot. Pretty darn hot to the touch. It runs even hotter now that I have some poly-fil inside. I even had it shut off once due to the poly-fil so I removed some, haha.

The Epik warranty is 3 years on the amps and drivers. Mine's pretty darn hot to the touch, but because I did the Pepsi challenge between it and the JBL one day, I found out my JBL felt hotter after the same period of use. And I remember before I did the poly-fil it was still pretty hot. I have asbestos hands so it might be hard to tell. But although it's uncomfortable to leave my hand there for more than a few seconds, I can leave it there. I think max time I've left my hand on it has been about 20 seconds after heavy use.

I do all my sub calibration through Audyssey and my SPL meter. I run them about 8db hot compared to the other speakers. But even with that my Legend volume is only about 1/3 of the way up on it. My seating area is only 12' away from it, so it makes sense to me. Sounds freakin' amazing.

On your Onkyo use the Audyssey, then dial the sub up a tad if you like a bit more bass.

If you throw a BBQ let me know and I'll fly down, haha

[Kali157]

Originally Posted by red_5ive

Ag, gotcha. In that respect I don't think I'd recommend The Legend for a main setup (medium to larger room), especially if the person is a "bass head".

Also, I didn't get to take a temp reading as my thermometer has a dead battery. I'll pick up a battery this weekend. My gallery is also back up, btw.

I love how GI-NORMOUS those Rockets are. Had to rate the gallery.

Most of the people around me are not bass heads. Actually, I really try to encourage a level matched system with the bass higher by only 1-2 db. Moreover, I am trying to get everyone around me into vinyl (or back into with my dad and FIL). Know how hard it is to convince 20-30 yr olds to TRY vinyl? Anyway, so I am always on the look out for subs with "finesse" and that can handle movies well... not just a one note thumper... without costing a fortune. I had a friend who had an Empire briefly, and the sound was quite good (wasn't broken in, properly placed, or completely calibrated though). It was returned b/c his wife thought the sub was too big. I was really excited about the Legends... till I read about the amp's specs... and people's issues. Some amp failures are acceptable to me. But all amps are running quite hot as "normal" is my worry.

Can you keep your hand on the amp plate after watching a movie?

Got another question for you about your amps... but since it is off topic, gonna PM you.

[red_5ive]

Originally Posted by Kali157

I love how GI-NORMOUS those Rockets are. Had to rate the gallery.

Most of the people around me are not bass heads. Actually, I really try to encourage a level matched system with the bass higher by only 1-2 db. Moreover, I am trying to get everyone around me into vinyl (or back into with my dad and FIL). Know how hard it is to convince 20-30 yr olds to TRY vinyl? Anyway, so I am always on the look out for subs with "finesse" and that can handle movies well... not just a one note thumper... without costing a fortune. I had a friend who had an Empire briefly, and the sound was quite good (wasn't broken in, properly placed, or completely calibrated though). It was returned b/c his wife thought the sub was too big. I was really excited about the Legends... till I read about the amp's specs... and people's issues. Some amp failures are acceptable to me. But all amps are running quite hot as "normal" is my worry.

Can you keep your hand on the amp plate after watching a movie?

Got another question for you about your amps... but since it is off topic, gonna PM you.

Thanks for the generous rating.

I agree on the level matched with +1 to +2 on the sub. That's exactly how I have mine set for HT (mine is set +1.5). I hear ya on the vinyl thing with the younger generation who grew up in the cd/digital age. Heck, I even remember having disagreements with friends back in high school that vinyl sounded better than cassette when cassettes were the norm. CD caught on with me, however, and I have moved to FLAC rips as I prefer the convenience. If I can stop being lazy maybe some day I'll go back to vinyl .

I do think the Legend is a great sub for dual duty, and performs very well with music, but I still wouldn't use it my main setup. And yes, the amp is pretty hot when I leave my hand on it, hot enough that I pull my hand away after 2-3 seconds or so. I'll note that I run it at 1/4 turn on the knob and Audyssey calibrated the gain at +1.5. I otherwise get a -12 Audyssey calibration at the defacto 1/2 turn on the knob. -12 is the min gain value on the SR6005, and still it's a bit hot for my tastes so I adjusted it down. Not having room to adjust in any direction is also a no-no to me.

And your PM has been replied to.

[DerrellB]

I was on the legend preorder and was one of the first to get my duals. I have not had a problem as of yet. They have performed admirably. I will say my amps do run warm to hot but so does my B&K amps and they are 7 years old. My B&K's actually run a little hotter. I think ReggaetonSalsero is mistaken into thinking that just because you spend 600 on a sub doesnt mean the sub does not have limitations. You are wrong in that sense. You push anything beyond its capabilities it will break. If you force the amp into clipping, it could damage the amp as well as the driver. How high are your ceilings? 12x18 is not a small room and depend on your ceiling height, could be to big for one legend to pressurize. I think you are expecting too much from a small sub. I have duals in my room and while they do a great job, I didnt expect them to just pound my room. I knew what I was buying and that was a sealed sub system that would produce nice tight deep bass. I think you were looking for an spl monster which it is not. How did you calibrate your sub? I am not taking up for Epik at all because when I first got mine, they were almost on the first fedex truck back to them until they broke in. Like I said, my B&K amps run hotter and I have always been told thats just how they are. Onkyo's are the same way. I just think you bought something that you expected more from in the way of spl and its not it. Dont be offended by my statements, as they are just observations and opinions.

[HAMP]

This is totally off subject, and as well, I don't have an Epik subwoofer. I was reading thru a few of these posts and it has me re-thinking how I thought I cranked my system when I watch movies. This is not a post of competition post either. Just wondering.

As mentioned in a post, Onkyo’s are so called known for getting hot. I have an Onkyo 805 which was one of the ones high on the list of ‘Hot Onkyo’s’.

Reading thru these post, you guys are talking about your sub amps getting hot, and too hot to touch.

I’m starting to think; maybe I don’t listen to my stuff as loud as I thought.

My Onkyo doesn’t get hot; my sub amp plates are always cool to the touch.

I guess what I’m getting at is, how loud do you guys listen to your movies?

Over a year ago, when the talk of ‘Hot Onkyo’s’ was on the forum, I was thinking maybe mine is staying cool, because I have sensitive speakers that are 8ohms, so the receiver is not being pushed, but now I have 6ohms and not so sensitive speakers, and still not hot.

I even had another forum member over and too his surprise it never gotten hot, and we demo’ed some stuff.

If anything my subs really should be putting out some heat, I have them running hot from my receiver.

[de Rookie]

Originally Posted by HAMP

I guess what I’m getting at is, how loud do you guys listen to your movies?

Anywhere from -10.0db to -8.0db

My Integra gets warm after a 4 hour workout, haha.

[Reference_head]

Strange that the empire amp doesn’t even get warm and the design is so much like the legend. If I had to guess I would say that the amp isn’t a good match to the sub.