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Old 11-14-2009, 08:07 PM   #41
SeanMF SeanMF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lokir1 View Post
Anyone?
Racetracks along the bottom of the wall or wire outlets right behind the towers.
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Old 11-15-2009, 07:15 PM   #42
ldgibson76 ldgibson76 is offline
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Hello again Big Daddy!

Question for you! With all the emphasis on power cord and interconnect separation, it's hard to see that concept being followed in the photo above. Granted, your system is comprised of 120 components, (I thought I was bad!) and most likely because of the configuration (position of the components), makes it very difficult to have complete separation. I know it was a PITA for me to get my cables and power cords separated.
So my question is, although it's been stated that when power cords and cables are in very close proximity, which I do not disputed, sound quality can be effected. But, you say even with the state of your cable management, you have no adverse effects to your SQ. Taking into account all the possible factors/scenarios, do you contribute that success to the quality/shielding of your interconnects?

I apologize for the wordy inquiry.

Last edited by ldgibson76; 11-15-2009 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:08 AM   #43
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ldgibson76,

My system sounds excellent because of the thousands of dollars I have invested in the components and not because of the cables. In my HT room, I have 10 speakers, 6 subwoofers, 7 amplifiers, one receiver, one porojector, one TV, 2 power conditioners, and multiple surge protectors to deal with. This is in addition to all the source components that I own. Moreover, my three front speakers have to be plugged in.

The pictures above are the way the cables looked a year ago. I have added more components and cables to my system since then. I did suffer from hum and high-pitched noises through my speakers.

There is limited things I can do with the mess. However, I have tired to do my best. The first thing I did was to order two separate 6-shelf each audio racks and tried to organize the components in groups. The next thing was to order shielded and shorter cables and some XLR balanced cables. In the next couple of weeks, I plan to replace most of the cables and organize them better. I will probably be left with a mountain of unused cables. I already have two large trunks full of cables in the garage.

Cable organization is done for three reasons: 1)Aesthetic, 2)Avoid hum and high frequency noises, and 3)Sound quality. Although cables can interfere with each other and coiling cables, particularly speaker and power cables, is a bad idea, you should be more worried about noises than sound quality.

Last edited by Big Daddy; 11-16-2009 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:15 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
ldgibson76,

My system sounds excellent because of the thousands of dollars I have invested in the components and not because of the cables. In my HT room, I have 10 speakers, 6 subwoofers, 7 amplifiers, one receiver, one porojector, one TV, 2 power conditioners, and multiple surge protectors to deal with. This is in addition to all the source components that I own. Moreover, my three front speakers have to be plugged in.

The pictures above are the way the cables looked a year ago. I have added more components and cables to my system since then. I did suffer from hum and high-pitched noises through my speakers.

There is limited things I can do with the mess. However, I have tired to do my best. The first thing I did is to order two separate 6-shelf each audio racks and tried to organize the components in groups. The next thing was to order shielded and shorter cables and some XLR balanced cables. In the next couple of weeks, I plan to replace most of the cables and organize them better. I will probably be left with a mountain of unused cables. I already have two large trunks full of cables in the garage.

Cable organization is done for three reasons: 1)Aesthetic, 2)Avoid hum and high frequency noises, and 3)Sound quality. Although cables can interfere with each other and coiling cables, particularly speaker and power cables, is a bad idea, you should be more worried about noises than sound quality.
I would be more than happy to come down there & organize your cables Big Daddy Might take me A week or 2 but I could at least see A movie or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:16 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
I will probably be left with a mountain of unused cables. I already have two large trunks full of cables in the garage.
I can relate to that!
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:22 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by crazyBLUE View Post
I would be more than happy to come down there & organize your cables Big Daddy Might take me A week or 2 but I could at least see A movie or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5
It is more like 50 movies.

Each time I have moved to a new house or done construction upgrades, it took me 24 hours to redo all the cables and test them. Of course, nothing ever works the first time.
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:30 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
It is more like 50 movies.

Each time I have moved to a new house or done construction upgrades, it took me 24 hours to redo all the cables and test them. Of course, nothing ever works the first time.
If I had that much to contend with on A move or something of the sort , None of it would work for the first week until I figured it out .

Can I bring my 257 blu's with me too !!
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:31 AM   #48
ldgibson76 ldgibson76 is offline
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Quote:
My system sounds excellent because of the thousands of dollars I have invested in the components and not because of the cables.
Maybe I did not articulate my inquiry properly to you, and for that I apologize. I realize that cable management is not responsible for providing good sound quality out of your components. But bad cable management can cause unwanted interference. My curiousity was based on the quality of the cable. In other words, in situations like yours when the cable population is not unlike the population of Beijing, China. That's when high quality, well made cables with proper shielding can limit the interference you could encounter using inferior cables. Just an observation. By the way you do have very fine equipment. I can appreciate your love for components/electronics. If I could afford and/or accommodate an amp for each speaker, believe me, I'd have them!
I hope I did not offend you. if i did, I apologize.
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Old 11-16-2009, 03:18 AM   #49
SeanMF SeanMF is offline
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Default Bedroom re-organizing for future 2 channel/sub setup

Went from this mess for re-doing room for 5.1 and 2 channel setup in January 2010:



To this:




Sleeving of the wires will occur soon.

Last edited by SeanMF; 11-16-2009 at 03:44 AM.
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Old 11-16-2009, 03:46 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldgibson76 View Post
Maybe I did not articulate my inquiry properly to you, and for that I apologize. I realize that cable management is not responsible for providing good sound quality out of your components. But bad cable management can cause unwanted interference. My curiousity was based on the quality of the cable. In other words, in situations like yours when the cable population is not unlike the population of Beijing, China. That's when high quality, well made cables with proper shielding can limit the interference you could encounter using inferior cables. Just an observation. By the way you do have very fine equipment. I can appreciate your love for components/electronics. If I could afford and/or accommodate an amp for each speaker, believe me, I'd have them!
I hope I did not offend you. if i did, I apologize.
All my interconnect cables are shielded. I also use 10 gauge silver coated copper speakers wires.

Contrary to all the nonsense that goes on with cable manufacturers, even reasonably priced cables from Monoprice are double shielded coaxial cables.

Coaxial cables are the best cables for interconnect applications. There are basically two types: RG59 and RG6. The inner conductor of RG59 is stranded 22 gauge copper with a layer of copper braid shielding and one layer of foil shielding. The RG6 cable has a thicker 18 gauge solid inner conductor with braid shielding (sometimes aluminum) and aluminum foil shielding. RG6 is more rigid and not as flexible as RG59. RG6 is preferred for longer lengths (subwoofer and video applications). RG59 may be more appropriate for interconnect applications.

Copper braid shielding is better for blocking lower frequency noises. Aluminum shielding is better for blocking upper frequency RF noises. Foil shielding has 100% coverage. Braid shielding has 90-95% coverage at best. The ground connection of foil shielding is not as reliable as the ground connection of braid shielding.

For speaker cables, resistance is by far the most important factor. That is why a lower gauge number is preferred for longer lengths. Inductance and capacitance are not a major issue unless the cables are over 100 feet. Inductance is slightly more important than capacitance for speaker wires.

As far as interconnect cables are concerned, resistance and inductance are not as important as capacitance. First, the interconnect cables are relatively short (3ft or 6ft). Second, the output impedance of the components is in the thousands of ohms and a few additional ohms of cable resistance does not make a lot of difference. Third, interconnect cables have low current. The two factors that affect capacitance are the thickness of the wire (thicker wires have more capacitance) and the distance between the wires (lower distance increases capacitance).

Silver has slighlthly better conductivity than copper. Any advantage that silver cables offer can be overcome by a lower gauge (thicker) copper wire. For example, a 12 gauge copper wire has better conductivity than an overpriced 14 or 16 gauge silver wire.

The best interconnect cable is a coaxial cable with two layers of 95% copper braid shielding and one layer of 100% aluminum foil/mylar shielding. The next best is two layers of 95% copper braid shielding and the bronze medal goes to one layer of 95% copper shielding and one layer of 100% aluminum shielding. The first type of cable can be bought for less than $40-$50 for a 3 to 6 ft. The second type is less than $20-$30 and type three is less than $10. If you are paying more, you are wasting your money.

Sorry for the long post and all the lecturing. No more questions please. Just assume she was your math/physics teacher.


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Old 11-16-2009, 04:00 AM   #51
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Dang , I need to take some Physics Classes .

I tore apart almost everything this morning to rewire & prep for the new sub this morning & I know all my wires are good .

BTW ` BD , Subs done on the outside , & we be stacking again , Pics in thread

Last edited by crazyBLUE; 11-16-2009 at 04:03 AM.
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:04 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyBLUE View Post
Dang , I need to take some Physics Classes .

I tore apart almost everything this morning to rewire & prep for the new sub this morning & I know all my wires are good .
I did some graduate coursework with her and passed with honors. She signed off on my dissertation thesis.
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:08 AM   #53
SeanMF SeanMF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyBLUE View Post
Dang , I need to take some Physics Classes .

I tore apart almost everything this morning to rewire & prep for the new sub this morning & I know all my wires are good .

BTW ` BD , Sups done on the outside , & we be stacking again , Pics in Gallery
Sounds like you have the same idea I did Brent. I tore apart all my stuff at 10pm last night till 2am. Then proceeded to finish/clean room up most of the day. I might move the a/v rack to the left of the left front tower speaker. Put the future sub underneath the back corner of my desk.
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:09 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
I did some graduate coursework with her and passed with honors. She signed off on my dissertation thesis.
That's my kind've class...sign me up!
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:12 AM   #55
crazyBLUE crazyBLUE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
I did some graduate coursework with her and passed with honors. She signed off on my dissertation thesis.
Man , I never had teachers that looked like that You are lucky
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:50 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by seanfarley2 View Post
That's my kind've class...sign me up!
Sean,

You would have never paid attention to the lecture had she been the instructor.

Rich
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:15 PM   #57
SeanMF SeanMF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturephoto1 View Post
Sean,

You would have never paid attention to the lecture had she been the instructor.

Rich
Haha...i'm aware of this. I would've tried to woo her with my charm. The class grade could either have been really good or really bad. Either way...scenary is good
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Old 11-16-2009, 07:27 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Big Daddy View Post
All my interconnect cables are shielded. I also use 10 gauge silver coated copper speakers wires.

Contrary to all the nonsense that goes on with cable manufacturers, even reasonably priced cables from Monoprice are double shielded coaxial cables.

Coaxial cables are the best cables for interconnect applications. There are basically two types: RG59 and RG6. The inner conductor of RG59 is stranded 22 gauge copper with a layer of copper braid shielding and one layer of foil shielding. The RG6 cable has a thicker 18 gauge solid inner conductor with braid shielding (sometimes aluminum) and aluminum foil shielding. RG6 is more rigid and not as flexible as RG59. RG6 is preferred for longer lengths (subwoofer and video applications). RG59 may be more appropriate for interconnect applications.

Copper braid shielding is better for blocking lower frequency noises. Aluminum shielding is better for blocking upper frequency RF noises. Foil shielding has 100% coverage. Braid shielding has 90-95% coverage at best. The ground connection of foil shielding is not as reliable as the ground connection of braid shielding.

For speaker cables, resistance is by far the most important factor. That is why a lower gauge number is preferred for longer lengths. Inductance and capacitance are not a major issue unless the cables are over 100 feet. Inductance is slightly more important than capacitance for speaker wires.

As far as interconnect cables are concerned, resistance and inductance are not as important as capacitance. First, the interconnect cables are relatively short (3ft or 6ft). Second, the output impedance of the components is in the thousands of ohms and a few additional ohms of cable resistance does not make a lot of difference. Third, interconnect cables have low current. The two factors that affect capacitance are the thickness of the wire (thicker wires have more capacitance) and the distance between the wires (lower distance increases capacitance).

Silver has slighlthly better conductivity than copper. Any advantage that silver cables offer can be overcome by a lower gauge (thicker) copper wire. For example, a 12 gauge copper wire has better conductivity than an overpriced 14 or 16 gauge silver wire.

The best interconnect cable is a coaxial cable with two layers of 95% copper braid shielding and one layer of 100% aluminum foil/mylar shielding. The next best is two layers of 95% copper braid shielding and the bronze medal goes to one layer of 95% copper shielding and one layer of 100% aluminum shielding. The first type of cable can be bought for less than $40-$50 for a 3 to 6 ft. The second type is less than $20-$30 and type three is less than $10. If you are paying more, you are wasting your money.

Sorry for the long post and all the lecturing. No more questions please. Just assume she was your math/physics teacher.


+1

my 2 subwoofer runs are 62' i just used rg6 quad sheilded from monoprice. seems to work perfect. for my speakers LRC the runs are over 60' i used the monoprice 12 gague. that silver coated 10 gague sounds like a nice upgrade.

Last edited by osofast240sx; 11-16-2009 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:47 AM   #59
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I like everyone was frustrated with the jumble of wires behind the rack as I could not figure where the wires are coming out from and where they are entering. Besides all of them tangled. Finally I decided to work on it. I was inspired by the wire management by Zippo. So this is what I used.
1. Got my self a rack to replace the old one, which was too crowded with all the units. Here is the old rack.



2. Here is the new rack from Middle Atlantic.


Much spacious and with plenty of ventilation.

3. Then I started to look how to manage the wires/cables. I got the sleeve type of tubes. The one I got is from:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=082-464

The tubing is able to accommodate bundling of wires in part due to its lateral split design; and the semi-rigid braid design allows for simple closure around cables without the need for fasteners.
I got the 1 inch and the 1/2 inch ones to accomodate the smaller bundles and the bigger ones. They have braided look which I liked as they look prettier as compared to the other open tubings. Here is how they look:
The part numbers are: 1 inch 082-464 and the 1/2 inch 082-456.



Look at the end they look frayed. This if it is cut with scissors. To avoid this one needs a hot instrument so the fibres get sealed. The next step is what I used to accomplish this.

4. I got the "The Styro Wonder Cutter" which runs on 2 D batteries. However if one wishes you can get the " The Styro Wonder Cutter Plus with AC Adapter".

This is where I got it from:

http://store.quilting-warehouse.com/212587.html

This is how it looks:



This contains a tiny wire heated by the batteries (not included). The hot wire melts the tubing and makes a clean cut with no mess.

5. Then I got some cable management straps. In my case I got them from Middle Atlantic when I got the rack. These can be purchased from other vendors as mentioned in the thread. These are velcro type. You can also use the black ties in places to secure the cable.

Here is how they look:



6. Next step was to get the wall plates. I got the 3-Gang 7.1 Surround Sound Distribution Wall Plate and the HDMI wall plate from Monoprice.

Here are the links:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2



7. The next step was to get the mounting brackets. Got the single and triple gang brackets for the 7.1 surround sound and HDMI wall plates.

I got them from Parts Express: Here are the links:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=261-431

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=261-470

This is how they look:




8. Got my cables from Emotiva. I love the HDMI cables, these are flat and made it easier to manage them. I also got the RCA cables from them.

The link to Emotiva is:

http://emotiva.com/shop/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=68

http://emotiva.com/shop/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=65

This is how they look:




9. Once I had all the items it was easy but time consuming to put all together. It however paid for me to put the time in as I was very much satisfied with the end result. I can now trace the wires and they are no longer tangled and look great. The tubes certainly helped as being flexible I was able to put the wires in them. Rest was just tying them to the rear brackets and threading it through the holes.

Here are the final result:













Hope the information I provided will be helpful.

Last edited by blurayas11; 02-01-2010 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 02-01-2010, 03:49 AM   #60
ldgibson76 ldgibson76 is offline
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Hello blurayas11.

No doubt, your cable management is indeed one of the better examples displayed on this website. I love the break down of the materials used. The attention to detail is very impressive. I am going to look into the tubing. I atttempted to use looms in my infancy stages of cable management. It was a disaster! But the materials you have showcased may be the solution for my never ending cable project.
How long would you say it took to complete the project?

Last edited by ldgibson76; 02-03-2010 at 09:38 PM.
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