Epson EH-LS12000B or Optoma UHZ65LV?

[dazkyl]

Hi guys,

as the title says I am between these 2 projectors for 4K movie viewing. No gaming or any other media except for movies.

Please let me know which one would you choose and why.

Thanks

[samlop10]

Definitely the Epson.

Better native contrast, better handling of HDR, better black levels, better image processing.

[HDTV1080P]

I would not get either projector personally since both of them are not true 4K projectors since they do not have a native 4K imaging chip. The Sony WX5000ES LCOS Laser projector is an entry level projector with native 3840 x 2160P imaging chip for $6,000.

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...ojector-review

However like the post mentions you are only interested in the two models mentioned. The one advantage of the Optoma UHZ65LV for $5,999 is that it has more resolution on the imaging chip when compared to the Epson LS12000. The Optoma uses a native 2716 x 1528P imaging chip with pixel shifting technology to simulate near 4K quality, however no HDR10+ on that projector. If I was not allowed to go with the native 4K Sony for $6,000, then I would choose the Epson LS12000 for $4,999 with a native 1,920 x 1080P LCD imaging panels that are optically shifted to simulate 4K resolution. The advantage of the Epson is the HDR10+ which offers the better picture quality then the Optoma when viewing native HDR10+ source material on 4K Blu-ray and 4K streaming. But the Optoma should provide better resolution because of a better imaging chip then the Epson when viewing 4K material. But overall picture quality should be for the Epson with the HDR10+ and better native contrast according to reviews and spec sheets. But finding a projector dealer to demo the projectors would be ideal to see the projectors in person. Only the Optoma projector offers Blu-ray 3D support which is a 1080P format, and if I was into 3D I would choose the Optoma. But for 2D 4K viewing the Epson would be better with HDR10+ material. But the true native 4K Sony for $6,000 is the best option for 4K Blu-ray viewing since one gets all the pixels on the screen.

Epson LS12000 professional review

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...ojector-review

Optoma UHZ65LV specs

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...tor.html/specs

[dazkyl]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I would not get either projector personally since both of them are not true 4K projectors since they do not have a native 4K imaging chip. The Sony WX5000ES LCOS Laser projector is an entry level projector with native 3840 x 2160P imaging chip for $6,000.

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...ojector-review

However like the post mentions you are only interested in the two models mentioned. The one advantage of the Optoma UHZ65LV for $5,999 is that it has more resolution on the imaging chip when compared to the Epson LS12000. The Optoma uses a native 2716 x 1528P imaging chip with pixel shifting technology to simulate near 4K quality, however no HDR10+ on that projector. If I was not allowed to go with the native 4K Sony for $6,000, then I would choose the Epson LS12000 for $4,999 with a native 1,920 x 1080P LCD imaging panels that are optically shifted to simulate 4K resolution. The advantage of the Epson is the HDR10+ which offers the better picture quality then the Optoma when viewing native HDR10+ source material on 4K Blu-ray and 4K streaming. But the Optoma should provide better resolution because of a better imaging chip then the Epson when viewing 4K material. But overall picture quality should be for the Epson with the HDR10+ and better native contrast according to reviews and spec sheets. But finding a projector dealer to demo the projectors would be ideal to see the projectors in person. Only the Optoma projector offers Blu-ray 3D support which is a 1080P format, and if I was into 3D I would choose the Optoma. But for 2D 4K viewing the Epson would be better with HDR10+ material. But the true native 4K Sony for $6,000 is the best option for 4K Blu-ray viewing since one gets all the pixels on the screen.

Epson LS12000 professional review

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...ojector-review

Optoma UHZ65LV specs

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...tor.html/specs

Hi man. Thanks for such detailed answer. I will have a look at the Sony. Is that the best 4k projector money can buy?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dazkyl

Hi man. Thanks for such detailed answer. I will have a look at the Sony. Is that the best 4k projector money can buy?

The best 4K DLP projector money can buy would be a dual Christie 4K Digital projector setup that one experiences in a IMAX and Dolby Cinema theater. But that would cost $400,000+ just for the dual projectors. IMAX and Dolby Cinema theaters in the home can run over $1 million dollars once a dedicated building or room is built with high end audio.

The best quality single projector setups are Christie DLP Digital projectors for $113,000 to $150,000+.

https://proavwarehouse.com/digital-p...ser-projector/

The best Sony LCOS projector is the VPL-GTZ380 for $80,000. 10,000 LUMENS output

https://electronics.sony.com/tv-vide...rs/p/vplgtz380

However, for the average home theater, the best native 4K projector (LCOS) would be the JVC DLA-NZ9 with HDR10+ and 8K e-shift technology. Price is $25,999.95 and it offers Blu-ray 3D support.

https://www.jvc.com/usa/projectors/procision/dla-nz9/

[dazkyl]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The best 4K DLP projector money can buy would be a dual Christie 4K Digital projector setup that one experiences in a IMAX and Dolby Cinema theater. But that would cost $400,000+ just for the dual projectors. IMAX and Dolby Cinema theaters in the home can run over $1 million dollars once a dedicated building or room is built with high end audio.

The best quality single projector setups are Christie DLP Digital projectors for $113,000 to $150,000+.

https://proavwarehouse.com/digital-p...ser-projector/

The best Sony LCOS projector is the VPL-GTZ380 for $80,000. 10,000 LUMENS output

https://electronics.sony.com/tv-vide...rs/p/vplgtz380

However, for the average home theater, the best native 4K projector (LCOS) would be the JVC DLA-NZ9 with HDR10+ and 8K e-shift technology. Price is $25,999.95 and it offers Blu-ray 3D support.

https://www.jvc.com/usa/projectors/procision/dla-nz9/

Woah! Thats alot of money. I still trying to figure out wether to go for OLED or Projector. A projector gives me more of a cinema vibe. Regarding the projectors, which is the best projector for a good home cinema? Budget is around €5,000-€7,000. I think that epson is up there with the best projectors that is not a crazy amount of money like 25k. 4k is enough. We still have a long way for 8k plus they’re so very expensive.

[HDTV1080P]

Yes the Epson is a good projector with HDR10+ and contrast ratio (no 3D only 2D). However the weakness of the Epson is that it is native 1080P with simulated 4K quality since a shifting optical element is used instead of real native 4K imaging chip.

Quote

“The LS12000 is not a "native" 4K projector—Epson continues to use 1,920 x 1,080 LCD panels for imaging duties and combines these with a shifting optical element to produce an "on screen" equivalent of 3,840 x 2,160 pixels with a dual-axis shift. This means the projector will not fully resolve single-pixel 4K patterns, but does provide near 4K quality from a normal seating distance on most screens. It is a bit disappointing that we haven't seen Epson jump into the native 4K display space yet with its consumer projectors. That said, there are no other projector makers currently offering native 4K models at this price point.”

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...ojector-review

No under $100,000 consumer DLP projector or LCD projector offers a native 4K imaging chip. However starting at around $6,000 both JVC and Sony offer native 4K imaging chips using LCOS technology. Some commercial movie theaters install Sony LCOS 4K projectors. Plus Sony has that new entry level 4K LCOS Laser projector for only $6,000, but no 3D feature from that entry level model.

Here is the list of JVC and Sony LCOS projectors to choose from. JVC has HDR10+ support where as Sony only offers standard HDR10.

https://www.jvc.com/usa/projectors/procision/

https://electronics.sony.com/tv-vide...all-projectors

[dazkyl]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Yes the Epson is a good projector with HDR10+ and contrast ratio (no 3D only 2D). However the weakness of the Epson is that it is native 1080P with simulated 4K quality since a shifting optical element is used instead of real native 4K imaging chip.

Quote

“The LS12000 is not a "native" 4K projector—Epson continues to use 1,920 x 1,080 LCD panels for imaging duties and combines these with a shifting optical element to produce an "on screen" equivalent of 3,840 x 2,160 pixels with a dual-axis shift. This means the projector will not fully resolve single-pixel 4K patterns, but does provide near 4K quality from a normal seating distance on most screens. It is a bit disappointing that we haven't seen Epson jump into the native 4K display space yet with its consumer projectors. That said, there are no other projector makers currently offering native 4K models at this price point.”

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...ojector-review

No under $100,000 consumer DLP projector or LCD projector offers a native 4K imaging chip. However starting at around $6,000 both JVC and Sony offer native 4K imaging chips using LCOS technology. Some commercial movie theaters install Sony LCOS 4K projectors. Plus Sony has that new entry level 4K LCOS Laser projector for only $6,000, but no 3D feature from that entry level model.

Here is the list of JVC and Sony LCOS projectors to choose from. JVC has HDR10+ support where as Sony only offers standard HDR10.

https://www.jvc.com/usa/projectors/procision/

https://electronics.sony.com/tv-vide...all-projectors

Is it worth spending more than 10k when I might be upgrading as technology advances? I do not wish to exceed €5,000-€6,000 on the projector. I wont be exceeding 100-120”. I think that epson is my best bang for the buck. Any thoughts?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dazkyl

Is it worth spending more than 10k when I might be upgrading as technology advances? I do not wish to exceed €5,000-€6,000 on the projector. I wont be exceeding 100-120”. I think that epson is my best bang for the buck. Any thoughts?

There is a 10-year cycle when it comes to consumer electronics video components (480i DVD 1997, 1080P Blu-ray 2006, 4K Blu-ray 2016). Many people keep their projector around 10 years if purchased at the start of the cycle. For example, those that purchased 1080P Blu-ray players in 2006 started buying 1080P displays and 1080P projectors in 2006-2008+. Then when the 4K Blu-ray format came out 10 years later in 2016, many consumers upgraded their projector to a native 4K flat panel or 4K JVC or Sony LCOS projector model in the year 2016-2018+ timeframe. It is now the year 2023 and if you purchase a projector or flat panel now the theory is you would be buying toward the end of the 10 year cycle. Most likely in the year 2026+ or perhaps 2026-2028+ timeframe a native 8K optical disc format or 8K streaming content might be launched. Therefore, if you are interested in native 8K content in 3 to 5 years in the future, you might want to buy a lower cost 4K projector for under $10,000 like the entry level Sony or JVC LCOS models for $6,000, or the 1080P Epson LS12000 for $5,000. Then you could keep that entry level projector for 10 years or only 5 years if you plan on upgrading to native 8K projectors that should in theory start arriving on the market in 2026+ from JVC and Sony. Also buying at the beginning of the 10 year cycle a 8K display is going to cost more money when compared to buying the 8K display at the end of the 10 year cycle. So not every consumer chooses to buy at the beginning of the 10 year cycle but sometimes in the middle or end of the cycle (also within that 10-year cycle there are small improvements in new models like adding a new HDR format, etc).

Also when upgrading a projector in 5 to 10 years, one can place the old model on EBAY and sometimes get half the value depending how much life is left on the Laser element. So a $6,000 projector might be able to be sold for $3,000 in 5 to 10 years later when one chooses to upgrade (maybe a lot more if there is inflation).

I hope that information is helpful.

[samlop10]

I would definitely recommend an OLED over a projector unless you have enough light-control that you can use it in pitch-black conditions. Otherwise you’ll be sacrificing picture quality since any ambient light will washout the projectedimage. An OLED can work better with some ambient light, as long as you don’t have all the windows open and lights on in the room.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by samlop10

I would definitely recommend an OLED over a projector unless you have enough light-control that you can use it in pitch-black conditions. Otherwise you’ll be sacrificing picture quality since any ambient light will washout the projectedimage. An OLED can work better with some ambient light, as long as you don’t have all the windows open and lights on in the room.

You are correct most home theater projectors are not bright enough to be watched with the lights on in the room or with sunshine coming through the windows. Most consumer projectors require a completely dark home theater room.

However, there are high-end native 4K DLP projectors that offer 50,000 and 60,000 lumens that can be used in a bright rooms with lights on or sunshine coming through the windows. But they generally cost over $100,000.

I see now that for the first time a native 8K DLP imaging chip has been developed with a resolution of 7680 x 4320P with the new Digital Projection Insight Laser 8K projector. I do not see a price on this projector but I believe it might cost $300,000-$400,000+. Maybe more. It’s for professional installations in a commercial movie theater, big business, or a mansion home theater room.

UPDATED PRICE AND INFO LINK FOR THE NATIVE 8K PROJECOTR https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1373

https://www.digitalprojection.com/en...ser-8k-gen-ii/ (neat new native 8K DLP projector)

https://na.panasonic.com/us/audio-vi...aser-projector (50,000 lumens)

https://www.barco.com/en/product/xdl-4k60#specs (60,000 lumens)

[samlop10]

Yeah I’m sure those projectors look amazing, but they cost a mortgage lol. Thankfully, just like most technology, it gets cheaper with time and eventually begins trickling down to more consumer-level prices.

[dazkyl]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

You are correct most home theater projectors are not bright enough to be watched with the lights on in the room or with sunshine coming through the windows. Most consumer projectors require a completely dark home theater room.

However, there are high-end native 4K DLP projectors that offer 50,000 and 60,000 lumens that can be used in a bright rooms with lights on or sunshine coming through the windows. But they generally cost over $100,000.

I see now that for the first time a native 8K DLP imaging chip has been developed with a resolution of 7680 x 4320P with the new Digital Projection Insight Laser 8K projector. I do not see a price on this projector but I believe it might cost $300,000-$400,000+. Maybe more. It’s for professional installations in a commercial movie theater, big business, or a mansion home theater room.

UPDATED PRICE AND INFO LINK FOR THE NATIVE 8K PROJECOTR https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1373

https://www.digitalprojection.com/en...ser-8k-gen-ii/ (neat new native 8K DLP projector)

https://na.panasonic.com/us/audio-vi...aser-projector (50,000 lumens)

https://www.barco.com/en/product/xdl-4k60#specs (60,000 lumens)

I was look at either the Sony vpl-xw5000es or the Sony vpl-xw6000es. I am sure this is more than enough for native 4k in a dark room on a 115-130'' screen. Which model from jvc would be the challenger for these models from Sony?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dazkyl

I was look at either the Sony vpl-xw5000es or the Sony vpl-xw6000es. I am sure this is more than enough for native 4k in a dark room on a 115-130'' screen. Which model from jvc would be the challenger for these models from Sony?

All the new native 4K JVC’s have HDR10+ starting with the entry level model DLA-RS1100 and DLA-NP5 with a list price of $6,999.95. Therefore, JVC’s entry level models are a $1,000 more than Sony’s entry level native 4K projector. Also all of JVC’s including the enter level model support Blu-ray 3D plus native 4096 x 2160P resolution along with the consumer 3840 x 2160P 4K mode. However, you might not want to get the entry level JVC DLA-RS1100 or DLA-NP5 for $7,000 since they are not Laser based light sources but instead use a bulb (lamp) source that needs to be replaced every 4,500 hours. The cheapest JVC projector with a Laser light source that lasts up to 20,000 hours is the JVC DLA-NZ7 and DLA-RS2100 for $10,999.95. The entry level Sony VPL-XW5000ES for $6,000 has features removed in order to get to that price point (No 3D, no native 4096 x 2160P instead native 3840 x 2160P 4K, manual lens adjustment, and no HDMI version 2.1). When comparing the Sony VPL-XW6000ES projector with 2,500 lumens for $11,999.99 the closes JVC version would be the JVC DLA-NZ8 and DLA-RS3100 for $15,999.95. The JVC costs $4,000 more then the Sony for various reasons. JVC has HDR10+ and its native 4K imaging chip simulates 8K with e-shift and it has a native 8K HDMI input.

[dazkyl]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

All the new native 4K JVC’s have HDR10+ starting with the entry level model DLA-RS1100 and DLA-NP5 with a list price of $6,999.95. Therefore, JVC’s entry level models are a $1,000 more than Sony’s entry level native 4K projector. Also all of JVC’s including the enter level model support Blu-ray 3D plus native 4096 x 2160P resolution along with the consumer 3840 x 2160P 4K mode. However, you might not want to get the entry level JVC DLA-RS1100 or DLA-NP5 for $7,000 since they are not Laser based light sources but instead use a bulb (lamp) source that needs to be replaced every 4,500 hours. The cheapest JVC projector with a Laser light source that lasts up to 20,000 hours is the JVC DLA-NZ7 and DLA-RS2100 for $10,999.95. The entry level Sony VPL-XW5000ES for $6,000 has features removed in order to get to that price point (No 3D, no native 4096 x 2160P instead native 3840 x 2160P 4K, manual lens adjustment, and no HDMI version 2.1). When comparing the Sony VPL-XW6000ES projector with 2,500 lumens for $11,999.99 the closes JVC version would be the JVC DLA-NZ8 and DLA-RS3100 for $15,999.95. The JVC costs $4,000 more then the Sony for various reasons. JVC has HDR10+ and its native 4K imaging chip simulates 8K with e-shift and it has a native 8K HDMI input.

The nz7 is very interesting. Do you like the model and what’s the price of it?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dazkyl

The nz7 is very interesting. Do you like the model and what’s the price of it?

The JVC DLA-NZ7 for $10,999.95 is a good native 4K projector with 2,200 Lumens output. I would suggest you study the specs and read reviews and make sure you have a dedicated dark home theater room that is setup (remodeled) to install a ceiling mounted projector. I and many people prefer the JVC LCOS models over the Sony models. Robert at Value Electronics and other places have these or similar projectors on demo for consumers to see in person.

https://www.jvc.com/usa/projectors/procision/dla-nz7/

[dazkyl]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The JVC DLA-NZ7 for $10,999.95 is a good native 4K projector with 2,200 Lumens output. I would suggest you study the specs and read reviews and make sure you have a dedicated dark home theater room that is setup (remodeled) to install a ceiling mounted projector. I and many people prefer the JVC LCOS models over the Sony models. Robert at Value Electronics and other places have these or similar projectors on demo for consumers to see in person.

My room is a light controlled and completely dark during movies. My screen is a 120”. If you were to go one step below the nz7 in terms of $, which would that be? Keep in mind laser not bulb.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dazkyl

My room is a light controlled and completely dark during movies. My screen is a 120”. If you were to go one step below the nz7 in terms of $, which would that be? Keep in mind laser not bulb.

The Sony VPL-XW5000ES would be the ideal projector if you want to save $5,000. If you plan on doing no 3D then maybe you should go with the Sony with standard HDR10. You could always upgrade it in another 5 to 10 years with a better projector.


https://electronics.sony.com/tv-vide.../p/vplxw5000es

[dazkyl]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The Sony VPL-XW5000ES would be the ideal projector if you want to save $5,000. If you plan on doing no 3D then maybe you should go with the Sony with standard HDR10. You could always upgrade it in another 5 to 10 years with a better projector.


https://electronics.sony.com/tv-vide.../p/vplxw5000es

Not a big fan of 3d but occasionally I’ll do it. On movies like the new avatar. Are there alot of movies with hdr10+? Also how are the black levels of the nz7 compared with the sony 5000es?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dazkyl

Not a big fan of 3d but occasionally I’ll do it. On movies like the new avatar. Are there alot of movies with hdr10+? Also how are the black levels of the nz7 compared with the sony 5000es?

HDR10+ only gives the projector a better picture quality when native HDR10+ content is watched from 4K Blu-ray discs and streaming. There are a total of 93 HDR10+ 4K Blu-ray titles in existance. When it comes to streaming Paramount+, Amazon Prime video, Hulu, Google Play, YouTube and others use HDR10+. JVC has deeper blacks then the Sony with JVC native contrast ratio of 40,000 :1.

https://hdr10plus.org/hdr10-content/

It also depends on how long you are planning on keeping your projector. If you plan on upgrading to a native 8K LCOS model in 5 years you might want to get the low cost entry level Sony model. If you plan on keeping your projector for 10 years or more then I would go with the JVC DLA-NZ7 or a higher end JVC model.