New H.265 twice as efficient as H.264!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by MyBiz712

H.265 would give you a better picture.
It gives a Bigger Resoluton and more Pixels per square inch.
Also 4k and 8k is a part of H.265

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Believe me, it's o.k. to refer to it as HEVC.

This is what I mean, from the team working on the codec, see the 2nd paragraph….
http://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/studygro...deo/jctvc.aspx

Even the co-chairmen of the team group call it HEVC. See #11 for the agenda of the next meeting in regards to work pertaining to range and scalable extensions in the logistics doc. at the top -
http://wftp3.itu.int/av-arch/jctvc-s..._06_R_Sapporo/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In a couple of weeks down in our *LA get-away* neck of the woods, Sony will be commenting about “Sony’s recent display technologies for 4K LCD, 4K OLED, and 4K projectors …and also give their view on where they believe the future of this industry is headed.”

See keynote #3
http://www.sid.org/

^ This is the Direct link…
http://www.displayweek.org/

b.t.w., despite what’s stated in this cnet article…. http://www.cnet.com/news/hands-on-wi...k-televisions/ about quantum dots and Sony

See the full program…
http://www.displayweek.org/Portals/5...%20Program.pdf
and note the Invited Paper by Hirohisa Ishino, Sony Corp. entitled “Novel Wide-Color-Gamut LED Backlight for 4K x 2K LCD Embedded with Quantum-Dot Technology” which I don’t see evidence of being withdrawn.

[ronjones]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In a couple of weeks down in our *LA get-away* neck of the woods, Sony will be commenting about “Sony’s recent display technologies for 4K LCD, 4K OLED, and 4K projectors …and also give their view on where they believe the future of this industry is headed.”

See keynote #3
http://www.sid.org/

Please let up know if you hear anything interesting from Sony. I would hope Sony has some new 4K/UHD display devices (e.g., projectors) to announce and demo at CEDIA Expo in Denver in early Sept. Perhaps they will also announce some plans for using the extended version of HEVC in some of their upcoming products (be it Blu-ray UHD players or for their own 4K download service).

[ronjones]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

This is what I mean, from the team working on the codec, see the 2nd paragraph….
http://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/studygro...deo/jctvc.aspx

Even the co-chairmen of the team group call it HEVC. See #11 for the agenda of the next meeting in regards to work pertaining to range and scalable extensions in the logistics doc. at the top -
http://wftp3.itu.int/av-arch/jctvc-s..._06_R_Sapporo/

H.265 is the ITU-T number assigned to the standard (or recommendation) while HEVC is the codec defined by that standard.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ronjones

Please let up know if you hear anything interesting from Sony. I would hope Sony has some new 4K/UHD display devices (e.g., projectors) to announce and demo at CEDIA Expo in Denver in early Sept. Perhaps they will also announce some plans for using the extended version of HEVC in some of their upcoming products (be it Blu-ray UHD players or for their own 4K download service).

I won’t be attending SID Display Week ’14….relatives in town, must do the tourist show-the-sites thing. As far as Sony Electronics (in San Diego) goes, I feel sorry for the Sony sales reps., IT people, etc. as they’re having a tough go of it….http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Emp...RVW4228144.htm

The soul of Sony seems in angst, and not just in regards to Sony Electronics, but in other divisions like ‘Pictures’ too - http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Emp...RVW4228188.htm

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ronjones

H.265 is the ITU-T number assigned to the standard (or recommendation) while HEVC is the codec defined by that standard.

[Penton-Man]

Question for people to ponder....In what format do content producers send their 4K source files to Netflix?

HEVC

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

For those like me who like letters rather than numbers, it’s o.k. for people to call the codec simply...
HEVC,
since many of the original investigators -

http://iphome.hhi.de/wiegand/assets/...C-Overview.pdf
http://iphome.hhi.de/wiegand/assets/...erformance.pdf
http://www.hhi.fraunhofer.de/fileadm...Complexity.pdf

testers -
http://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/18...SPIE2012_1.pdf

and potential content producers, all feel rather comfortable in doing so -

or something else?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Question for people to ponder....In what format do content producers send their 4K source files to Netflix?

HEVC
or something else?

Answer

Initially DPX, but now they’re supplied IMF/MXF (JPEG 2000 codec). I won’t talk about ProRes as that’s a proprietary format and I knows how some here feel about those proprietary things.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by ronjones

H.265 is the ITU-T number assigned to the standard (or recommendation) while HEVC is the codec defined by that standard.

HEVC is the name of the standard which can be seen in the specification document. While the ITU and MPEG have their own internal names for HEVC all of the proposals for the standard refer to it as HEVC. To give one example here is a proposal that was made about the 4:4:4 profiles.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

HEVC is the name of the standard which can be seen in the specification document. While the ITU and MPEG have their own internal names for HEVC all of the proposals for the standard refer to it as HEVC. To give one example here is a proposal that was made about the 4:4:4 profiles.

No offense to Ron, but I find that professionals ( the lead developers and testers involved with bringing it to consumers) almost invariably prefer the term ‘HEVC’ verbally and in writing; whereas, for some reason, most hobbyists and AV blogger/journalist-types enjoy using the term ‘H.265’…..whether out of being uninformed as to the development history and facts or just attempting to impress others with a numerical designation rather than a simple acronym (HEVC).

I mean, if they really desire to be well-informed and equitable as to ‘standards’ organizations, they should also use the designation ‘ISO/IEC 23008-2 MPEG-H Part 2’ where the HEVC standard is also defined, or at least MPEG-H Part 2 but I guess that’s too long to type out; plus, these days with B.T. 2020, the ITU is currently the ‘flavor of the day’ rather than the MPEG (http://mpeg.chiariglione.org/standards/mpeg-h )

Anyway, very recently, HEVC Dash data set (which can be played with open source tools) was offered up by the 4Ever project French people just weeks ago at the MMSys Conference last March in Singapore to help with development of over-the-top UHD services ….
http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2563672

All can read about it for free (in English) here - http://t.co/IvBiDL94dC (b.t.w., in the paper H.264 is mentioned but no mention of H.265, just HEVC )

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

No offense to Ron, but I find that professionals

It seems that whatever term is used in the beginning is what sticks, most seem to know MPEG-2 but few seem to equate H.262 to MPEG -2. One thing that seems to be very consistent with our industry is we are very inconsistent. Just checkout the variations of dB, color codes, etc.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

It seems that whatever term is used in the beginning is what sticks, most seem to know MPEG-2 but few seem to equate H.262 to MPEG -2. One thing that seems to be very consistent with our industry is we are very inconsistent. Just checkout the variations of dB, color codes, etc.

HEVC was used in the beginning. Click on the ‘More reading on HEVC’ tab on the right of this page - http://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/studygro...deo/jctvc.aspx

Rough analogy (not that you or Ron disparage 4K) – hobbyists or lay persons say things like cataract surgery -> “a new clear lens”….actually I could find an exact example of that on this very forum if I were to do some searching.

People with some real (rather than superficial) knowledge in the field of vision science would simply say IOL - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ol#post9121407 (i.e. IOL for intraocular lens).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Pretty much.

With some caveats…
1. It seems that HEVC captures the graininess of film source material with greater clarity than does H.264, so that (combined with the higher resolution of 4K tvs) makes the imagery appear a bit more grainy than with H.264 encoded material displayed on 1080p TVs.

[DenonCI]

My personal issue with 4K is that the majority of the people in a home environment sit too far away from their displays for 1080p, yet alone 4K. They will get no perceived benefit from the upgrade. I do see a benefit on the studio side though because 1080p (or 2K if you prefer), has less resolution than 35mm film and 4K is an upgrade in that realm. On the personal side, I'd prefer to see 10 or 12 bit color versus higher resolution because I think the overall benefits are better.

[Tech-UK]

Yeah, 4:2:2 10/12-bit interests me more than increase in resolution.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

My personal issue with 4K is that the majority of the people in a home environment sit too far away from their displays for 1080p, yet alone 4K. They will get no perceived benefit from the upgrade. I do see a benefit on the studio side though because 1080p (or 2K if you prefer), has less resolution than 35mm film and 4K is an upgrade in that realm. On the personal side, I'd prefer to see 10 or 12 bit color versus higher resolution because I think the overall benefits are better.

Personally, when I was in college I saw little (or no) perceived value in having to take some required ‘core courses’ in order to qualify for admission into graduate school because they wouldn’t help me that much in pursuit of that advanced doctorate degree. The admissions officers (the *determining power*) of all the grad schools didn’t really care what I personally preferred though.

At the very least, it is hoped that 4K (over time, meaning years) will drive the sales of cheaper, larger flat panel displays, which is itself is a good thing because bigger and cheaper is always better and the added ‘largeness’ should also serve to more ‘value’ being had at ‘typical’ viewing distances. Regardless of whether or not that ultimately comes to fruition, I know you’ve been away from the forum for quite some time now so I’ll post an exchange that Kris and I previously had on *the value* of 4K.

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

I agree Penton, lots of stuff out there that would be far more intriguing and obvious than 4K, which to me is a buzz number like 240Hz and all that crap was.

I had a chance to go and visit Brightside in Vancouver Canada years ago before Dolby bought them out and took over their HDR work. I saw the early prototypes of Dolby's HDR LCD display and the difference HDR and near infinite contrast does to a display is amazing.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, I don’t mean to be totally dismissive of the ‘4K’ movement because for one, I am a 4K advocate and secondly, I understand that consumer electronics companies live for/depend upon year-to-year sales to make everything work on their end and honestly, no fault to marketing folk……for engineers, 4K has been the far easier to build and bring to market than the other enhancements (WCG, HDR, HFR) which I’ve elaborated upon in past pages.

The BIG plan has always been to sell 4K and then augment it with enhancements as they became available.

There are strict scientific methodology studies (reproducible results by other investigating labs) which have actually graded the value of 4K vs. HFR vs. HDR as seen on 55-56” flat panels at a 9ft. screen to eye distance. The results of which indicate the later two parameters offer relatively more of an increase in picture quality as compared to simply boosting spatial resolution. To my knowledge no scientific study (published or unpublished) has compared the value of 4K 8-bit vs 1080p 10-bit or WCG (wide color gamut encoded) source material displayed on 4K vs 1080p monitors.

As an aside, not you Denon but, there are those on the *lecture/blogger circuit* who actually enjoy teasing apart the relative merit of 4K vs. other UHD parameters in an attempt to drive the direction of ‘Beyond HD’ consumer viewing in the home by shaming the consumer electronics display manufacturers into doing what they (the lecturers) want to be worked on from a ‘purist engineering perspective standpoint’ (i.e. concentrate on other UHD parameters and just leave spatial resolution alone at the 1080 level). Good luck with that antagonistic strategy.

I prefer the power-holding entities who are actual stakeholders in Beyond HD to work with each other in terms of mutual concessions and compromises rather than the ‘shaming strategy’. I think that eventually a reasonable combination (if only in a step-wise fashion) can be settled upon where we can progress beyond the specs of what we currently watch at home now. You’ll note there is no 1080p spatial resolution option listed in the highly regarded B.T. 2020 -
http://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/...8-I!!PDF-E.pdf

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I won’t be attending SID Display Week ’14….relatives in town, must do the tourist show-the-sites thing. As far as Sony Electronics (in San Diego) goes, I feel sorry for the Sony sales reps., IT people, etc. as they’re having a tough go of it….http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Emp...RVW4228144.htm

The soul of Sony seems in angst, and not just in regards to Sony Electronics, but in other divisions like ‘Pictures’ too - http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Emp...RVW4228188.htm

New job - http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/beh...adviser-714439

[Truewitt]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

New job - http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/beh...adviser-714439

Well, he's got time now that the company's universal standard seems to be a total loss at this point.

[eriaur]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

^ This is the Direct link…
http://www.displayweek.org/

b.t.w., despite what’s stated in this cnet article…. http://www.cnet.com/news/hands-on-wi...k-televisions/ about quantum dots and Sony

See the full program…
http://www.displayweek.org/Portals/5...%20Program.pdf
and note the Invited Paper by Hirohisa Ishino, Sony Corp. entitled “Novel Wide-Color-Gamut LED Backlight for 4K x 2K LCD Embedded with Quantum-Dot Technology” which I don’t see evidence of being withdrawn.

Sharp pulls the (huge) curtain back on new Aquos 4K TVs for 2015

Sharp's brand new Spectros Rich Color Display technology, which the company claims provides a 21% wider color spectrum than standard LED TVs.

Quantum-dot technology, like Sony?

[ronjones]

The executive summary has been released from last week's meeting of ITU-T SG16. The extensions to HEVC have been approved ('consented' in ITU terminology). This removes one technical roadblock for getting the BD UHD spec. completed and allows the manufacturers to move forward with designing/producing the HEVC related hardware/software that will used with BD UHD.

(full text of exec. summary is at: http://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/studygro...ults-1406.aspx)


Below is extracted directly from that summary:

"Video coding: The 2nd edition of ITU-T H.265 HEVC was Consented It includes three important types of extensions of HEVC coding capabilities, that will increase the quality of compressed video and better user experience:

​
1.Format range extensions of HEVC, known as RExt, adding improved colour representations. RExt includes support for higher bit-depths and enhanced chroma formats, including the use of full-resolution chroma.

2.Scalable extensions of HEVC, known as SHVC, enabling better performance for dynamic video streaming on networks with varying transmission conditions and other scenarios involving multiple bit-rate services. SHVC adds support for embedded bitstream scalability in which different levels of encoding quality are efficiently supported by adding or removing layered subsets of encoded data.

3.Multiview extensions of HEVC, known as MV-HEVC, as the first native support for 3D video encoding in HEVC. It provides an efficient representation of video content with multiple camera views and optional depth map information, such as for 3D stereoscopic and autostereoscopic video applications."