Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys are crazy, reminds me of the Winchester Mystery House....Keep Building! No matter how much space you need. Running out of space, Disc not working because of compatibility, Disc problem or poor duplication, and Studio Disc Production troubles. Also Disc Player problems will add to the Frenzy!

...says the guy who spends his money buying things he doesn't own and relies entirely upon an internet service over which he has no control.

I have plenty of space even after building a library over the past 36 years. My disc failure rate has been about 0.5% over all of that time and the very few that did fail have all been replaced with minimal effort and almost no expense. Not one of my disc players have ever failed. I still have a fully operational laserdisc player that is 25 years-old.

Compare that to how many times my internet service has failed over just this past year and how many times that servers have been overtaxed. It's no contest; discs are a higher quality, stable, and reliable source of entertainment. Streaming is a house of straw built inside a wind tunnel ready to collapse with the slightest breeze.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I have hundreds of movies and TV shows I haven't watched, some of which I've had for years.

I've never felt the need to watch anything quickly. My collection is there so I always have a large selection of lots of different movies and TV shows that I can watch at any time with no fear that any of them will ever be modified or removed.

I’m just pulling his plonk. .

I have a fair few myself. I just want to discuss The Wicker Man with him!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys are crazy, reminds me of the Winchester Mystery House....Keep Building! No matter how much space you need. Running out of space, Disc not working because of compatibility, Disc problem or poor duplication, and Studio Disc Production troubles. Also Disc Player problems will add to the Frenzy!

Streams that look like pirate videos for a few seconds until they ‘firm up’, audio drop outs, lack of consistency across devices with apps, fractured video quality across apps, content disappearing, inferior picture, inferior audio, not always correct aspect ratio, dancing pixels, banding, etc..

Disc for the eternal win.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by alchav21

This should be a good topic of discussion, because some of your Movie Libraries seem to be getting out of hand. I went to a friends house last night and to my surprise he had several shelves of his Movie Collection. To me putting the Movies on a Media Server is the best option!

First of all other's people's things are rightly none of your concern. Out of hand as you say just means some organization could help. You may consider staying in your lane though if you want to keep your friends.

A media server can be interesting for a few reasons but ultimately provides nothing beyond the discs which also provide more robust long term storage. Media servers are expensive to build, run and most of all maintain. I stopped using my own 40TB media server after finding it wasn't worth it. Just running it consumed 0.5KW so at current rates that's enough to pay for 2 of my UHD titles each month at full price.

Edit- My 4 NAS units while at idle used 0.5KWatts. Just double checking the numbers that's 12Kw/Day and at current rate in my state of $0.23 that's $82.80/Month. Add to the the cost in time and energy of converting the media and upgrading the servers as more content is added and finally replacing the hard drives on occasion and I just wish I had did the math sooner. But, I can be a slow learner.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys are crazy, reminds me of the Winchester Mystery House....Keep Building! No matter how much space you need. Running out of space, Disc not working because of compatibility, Disc problem or poor duplication, and Studio Disc Production troubles. Also Disc Player problems will add to the Frenzy!

I have more issues viewing streaming content than I've ever had viewing discs. Stutters, resolution drops, macro blocking, apps crashing, sound sync issues are all common when streaming. I have Gig fiber and an Nvidia Shield Pro so it's not like I'm trying to stream over dial up on a potato streaming device. But I rarely, if ever, have those issues with disc.

If I stressed about housing my growing disc collection then I truly would have a charmed life. I am almost out of space on my shelves at the moment but I always find a way to either increase storage space or re-configure my existing space to accommodate my hobby. I have far more important things to stress about. Seeing my collection grow brings me nothing but joy.



Though I will admit if anyone is an expert on crazy it would be you.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Ender14

If I stressed about housing my growing disc collection then I truly would have a charmed life.

Imagine if you were concerned about someone else's collection.

I also have more problems with streaming than with discs by far. I don't have the best connection as fiber internet remains a coming soon thing in my main residence. When it comes to streaming it's typically possible for several people in the house to be sharing the connection and all goes without considering possible problems outside of the home at the other end of the connection. I love to host movies but I'm never as confident and therefore as relaxed when I have to rely on streaming from someone else's server.

[bhampton]

More ads on the way as Apple plans to have ads within more apps.

It's just the way things are going but it doesn't mean that's a good thing.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/15/appl...ur-iphone.html

I mainly use Apple computer products and keep a single budget M$ laptop for projector calibration. However, most of the directions Apple is going seem to be completely off the rails.

They preached about being ad free but now if you use pre made playlists or the radio stations in Apple music which is a premium service you will have ads.

Why are billionaires always panhandling ? It's just greed. Greed drives the stocks and makes the financial world go round.

Some people seem to like ads. In my experience it's the same folks who just have stuff "on" and ignore it. I prefer to think for myself. Only after trying to reduce exposure to them do you realize how prevalent they are.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

This should be a good topic of discussion, because some of your Movie Libraries seem to be getting out of hand. I went to a friends house last night and to my surprise he had several shelves of his Movie Collection. To me putting the Movies on a Media Server is the best option!

Putting content on HDD’s is not a inexpensive endeavor, my most recent outlay.

9 14TB WD Red+ HDD = 2,606.58
Zappiti NAS & Neo = 4,853.92
Total = $7460.50

I started around 2001 with a MIT MDP-100 ATSC card with hardware H.262 decoding. Been storing and playing content to & from HDD’s for a long time now. Followed separate media players (Roku, Popcorn Hour, Sony FMP-X10, etc.) for almost as long. I do like my setup but it is not for everyone.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Edit- My 4 NAS units while at idle used 0.5KWatts. Just double checking the numbers that's 12Kw/Day and at current rate in my state of $0.23 that's $82.80/Month.

My WD Red+ 14TB drives require 6.5W each when Read/Write, Idle is 3.0W and Standby and sleep is 0.8W. 6.5 x 8 = 52W, around 50W for the controller so a little over 100W for a NAS (Zappiti) with 112TB (98TB useable) storage. My small Synology NAS is much less power use. Only turn on the Zappiti NAS if it is going to be used, the Synology hibernates after 10 minutes of no use. So my daily use of the Zappiti NAS would be 110W * 3Hours = .33 KWH * 15¢ = 4.95¢ per day.

[Vilya]

Alchav isn't talking about putting movies on a server that he owns; he is talking about being fully dependent upon a remote server owned by someone else. He puts all of his faith in big corporations to do right by him.

The old tightwad would never spend the amount of money involved to have his own server and what would he put on it if he had one? Streaming captures? Wouldn't that look lovely?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

My WD Red+ 14TB drives require 6.5W each when Read/Write, Idle is 3.0W and Standby and sleep is 0.8W. 6.5 x 8 = 52W, around 50W for the controller so a little over 100W for a NAS (Zappiti) with 112TB (98TB useable) storage. My small Synology NAS is much less power use. Only turn on the Zappiti NAS if it is going to be used, the Synology hibernates after 10 minutes of no use. So my daily use of the Zappiti NAS would be 110W * 3Hours = .33 KWH * 15¢ = 4.95¢ per day.

Your cost analysis seems much more accurate.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Your cost analysis seems much more accurate.

i wont take that personal.

i have real time metering of power consumption and just compared with the on vs off.

At the time the house was using 1.8Kw and after I shut down the servers it was roughly 1.3. I wasn't using any appliances at the time except the fridge and maybe the pool pump.

I realized, .... I already do the supposed next big thing .... I already have over a thousand movies in iTunes. It's not the same of course but it's share-able with my kids and accessible from anywhere and certainly fully legal and I have it regardless. It's more than enough server action for me.

It's a bit goofy, but after the raids by the feds I've been hearing about I decided to audit myself and so long as no one looks too closely at my Ms Pac Man arcade cabinet and I don't brag online about it having a few extra 40 year old games..... I should be free to relax now.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by bhampton

i wont take that personal.

i have real time metering of power consumption and just compared with the on vs off.

At the time the house was using 1.8Kw and after I shut down the servers it was roughly 1.3. I wasn't using any appliances at the time except the fridge and maybe the pool pump.

Good as nothing personal was meant by it.

I run my computer for roughly half a day every day and it is a bit of a power hungry hippo probably much more so than all of your NAS units combined and I know that it is not costing me very much to operate it so wantonly. My entire electric bill for this month is only $107 and my computer usage is not responsible for very much of it.

According to this article running a NAS with a power consumption of 40 watts for a full 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, works out to an annual energy cost of $129 U.S., assuming 37 cents per kwh.

https://www.macrium.com/power-consid...-of-a-home-nas

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Good as nothing personal was meant by it.

I just randomly checked my house consumption now and again it was 1.3 so I guess that's about what is normal if I'm not doing dishes or laundry and for the moment there's no heaters running and we don't have any A/C..... all bulbs are LED.

Keep in mind with my numbers that I have 4 NAS units and the Hard drives are older... Newer NAS have better power management and newer drives do as well.

But, ...... really .... I didn't take it bad .... I just don't want to give back my idea that by just unplugging it I can freely buy 2 full priced UHD titles a month .... Not ready to let go of that notion even if it's fiction.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by bhampton

But, ...... really .... I didn't take it bad .... I just don't want to give back my idea that by just unplugging it I can freely buy 2 full priced UHD titles a month .... Not ready to let go of that notion even if it's fiction.

Any math that results in 2 more 4K discs per month is math well done.

[Vilya]

I just ordered . Someone here reminded me about it recently. Time to upgrade that used DVD that I bought from a Blockbuster eons ago.

I also ordered: and

I plan to watch them all over the next, say, two years.

[crutzulee]

When we first got together, I told my wife that the two things I wouldn't skimp on were books and food. I have always been into home theater, but that was less important at a time when I would be at the cinema a few times a week.

As I've grown old and crotchety over the last 25 years, I've developed an intolerance for the theatrical experience and have focused more and more on creating something "better" in my home. My 2 major expenditures now are food and movies as I now read only for a few minutes a day as a prelude to sleep..

My HT is on the smaller side. I get no satisfaction from seeing shelves of discs that are quite frankly an impediment to properly treating a room for picture and sound in a space limited environment.
My son's walk in closet can house more discs than I'll ever own.

I have never given any thought to how much it costs me to run the array of external USB drives that I have attached to my ZIDOO media player. I keep meaning to setup a NAS as a project with my son, but truthfully, it's just easier to purchase a new drive every time he tells me that we're running out of space..

As far as streaming is concerned, I just don't have the issues with it that some of you guys seem to have, or at least with the same frequency. I rented a horror title the other night on demand. In a very dark scene, I noticed both banding and macroblocking issues. It really stood out for me because it occurred to me that I couldn't remember the last time I'd seen anything like it...although I CAN be sure that it would have been on a physical disc.

Speaking of which, I've had more than my share of failed drives and playback glitches and freeze ups over the various disc types from LD all the way up to UHD. Although, to be fair, I'm very hard on my things. I find it very difficult extracting a disc from it's spindle and precisely placing it on the disc tray without subjecting it to all manner of scratching hazards.. LOL..

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

Speaking of which, I've had more than my share of failed drives and playback glitches and freeze ups over the various disc types from LD all the way up to UHD. Although, to be fair, I'm very hard on my things. I find it very difficult extracting a disc from it's spindle and precisely placing it on the disc tray without subjecting it to all manner of scratching hazards.. LOL..

I have never had a video disc player of any type fail. Most playback glitches were correctable just by cleaning the disc, so I don't see those as a problem.

You do, however, need to treat your toys better. They're good to you, so you be good to them.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Alchav isn't talking about putting movies on a server that he owns; he is talking about being fully dependent upon a remote server owned by someone else. He puts all of his faith in big corporations to do right by him.

The old tightwad would never spend the amount of money involved to have his own server and what would he put on it if he had one? Streaming captures? Wouldn't that look lovely?

You're right putting Movies on my own Server is not in my plans. I don't have any of the problems with Streaming that you guys talk about. Fiber and Hardwired Ethernet gives me Solid Playback from all my Streaming Providers. My ISP is very reliable and rarely goes down, so my Streaming is like your Disc Playing. I haven't lost any Movies or TV Shows, so depending on my Streaming Providers is not a problem.

Streaming Quality is getting better and Bitrates are slowly climbing. Accessing the Streaming Providers Servers is not a problem, so my Content will only get better with an unlimited supply that will only grow more and more!

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Your cost analysis seems much more accurate.

The Synology DS1821+ uses 59.8 W during access and 26.18 W during HDD hibernation. With 8 drives like mine that would be 60 + 52 = 112 Watts total.

On my Synology DS212j I have two external HDD's connected via USB using Inateck FE3001 enclosures. These enclosures will hibernate the HDD after a period of no activity.