Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Recapping a couple of your recent posts…..you say that it is a bother to “flip” a disc as that is too much work. But then you suggest that it makes sense to pack everything up and move to get better internet, never-minding the cost and stress of relocating.

All to get gigabit internet service (that he insists that we all need) that he doesn't even have himself.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

How are you calibrating your JVC?

My own thread on AVSForum has all the info about what I do for calibration.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/off...s4100.3236991/

And, a ton of more info from known calibration masters like ISF instructor Dominic Chan.

I purchased both of the high quality meters that are used in JVC's Auto Cal program.

One is the SpyderX which is a color meter. It uses filters and diodes to measure the intensity of light and is best used for calibrating Gamma.

The other is the i1pro 2 photo spectrometer which measures wave lengths of light and is best used for color calibration.

So I do Gamma first and then color. I use the color filter for HDR so I have to calibrate SDR and then HDR separately.

I have to say the out of box experience with the JVC NZ8 is amazing and there was no real need for calibration initially. At the same time them offering a fully automated calibration program that works well with high quality tools I had available was one of the reasons I was excited to buy this particular model.

I've always enjoyed setting up my own things. I have upmost respect for pro calibrators but I don't want to miss out on anything fun I can do myself.

-Brian

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Like I have said before, if you don't want to be part of the Masses and want Disc Quality Streaming you need Fiber and Hardwired Ethernet. So you work with your Community to get this or Move to a location that has it!

Read gradually, languidly, moderately, leisurely, unhurried, gently, haltingly, silently: there are many (some here) that have 1G internet, their streaming is no better than folks just a 50 Mbps service.

The files on the CDN for most services is in the 20 to 25 Mbps range from the likes of Apple but some others much less so.

Why does the fact that streaming target market is the masses escape you? Do you not understand the concept? No one else here seem to have a problem understanding this.

Netflix July speed index here for the US.

[cheez avenger]

I would love nothing more than to have giganet. It's just not available in my area and I don't live in Palm Desert or in a rural area. I remember the days of DSL, which made watching HD streams almost impossible. Once I switched to Spectrum it has been gravy ever since. Again, I'm all for the fastest speeds as long as I have access to them.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

All to get gigabit internet service (that he insists that we all need) that he doesn't even have himself.

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Read gradually, languidly, moderately, leisurely, unhurried, gently, haltingly, silently: there are many (some here) that have 1G internet, their streaming is no better than folks just a 50 Mbps service.

The files on the CDN for most services is in the 20 to 25 Mbps range from the likes of Apple but some others much less so.

Why does the fact that streaming target market is the masses escape you? Do you not understand the concept? No one else here seem to have a problem understanding this.

My ISP can give me Gigabit and my Cat5e Ethernet can handle this speed, but as you guys pointed out it's not needed Today. Tomorrow may be a different story, Technology waits for no one. Sony is pushing the envelope with their 80Mbps Service, and Kaleidescope has better than Disc Servers. So IMO other Providers will follow.

Now you also have to think about Network Congestion, and IMO this is where Symmetrical Fiber will be needed. Direct and instant communication with the Network is essential in routing your Streaming Data. You also need an ISP that understands today's and Future Demanding needs with the CDN!

https://spectrum.ieee.org/internet-congestion-control

edit: This is only to stay ahead of the Masses, if you don't want or can't work with your Community and moving is out of the question then you have to settle for whatever you have!

[Froggy0705]

So question for those who have a good sized physical collection. With all these services these days and these digital copy services. Digital copies i have them but I barely use them....vudu, movies anywhere....like they are convenience don't get me wrong but with watching my physical collection, hulu, netflix, disney plus, paramount plus and with all that geez lol to me there is not point in having a digital collection especially if I rarely use vudu, movies anywhere. Also with hulu, paramount plus and disney plus, netflix they have over half of what I've got on digital anyways. Bottom line is I just don't see the point in having them if your a physical collector and have these streaming services as well to last you a lifetime lol. Just thought I would get that out there. Thoughts anybody? On how you guys go about it and what is enough or more than enough?

[CatBus]

There's another thread here on the same thing, more or less. The percentages vary -- some people are all-physical, some are all-digital/streaming, and most are somewhere in-between.

Myself (not a big collection at all... yet), I use streaming the way I used to use physical rentals. To try a movie out, see if it's any good. If it's good and has re-watch value, I'll buy it on disc. Otherwise I won't. In that way, the two types of media distribution don't really compete with each other. Yeah, sometimes I'll stream a movie a second time -- and sometimes I'll buy a movie with every intention of watching it and never do. But most of the time, physical is for films I want to see more than once, and streaming is for films I'm not even sure I want to see once.

[Steedeel]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62626908

Notice the mention of ‘games consoles’. It starts.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62626908

Notice the mention of ‘games consoles’. It starts.

The PS5 was found to use a maximum of just 203 watts when gaming and in the U.S. the PS5 costs 4.6 cents per hour to operate or a $1.33 per month for an "average" user. Not much cost savings to be found by curtailing its usage.

https://ecocostsavings.com/ps5-elect...20is%20this%3F

The article that you cited said that the "rebate" incentive period for minimizing power usage was just a 3 hour window that runs from from 17:00 to 20:00. Lowering one's power consumption for 3 hours to qualify for a rebate should not be a drastic hardship on anyone and it is entirely optional.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by alchav21

My ISP can give me Gigabit and my Cat5e Ethernet can handle this speed, but as you guys pointed out it's not needed Today. Tomorrow may be a different story, Technology waits for no one. Sony is pushing the envelope with their 80Mbps Service, and Kaleidescope has better than Disc Servers. So IMO other Providers will follow.

Kaleidescope is a niche that caters to videophiles and costs way more than any streaming provider.

Why would any streaming provider drastically increase their bitrate (and drastically increase their spending) when their customers already think that everything looks "fantastic"?

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by alchav21

This is only to stay ahead of the Masses, if you don't want or can't work with your Community and moving is out of the question then you have to settle for whatever you have!

Discs are available with excellent video and audio quality in every community.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Kaleidescope has better than Disc Servers. So IMO other Providers will follow.

Now you also have to think about Network Congestion, and IMO this is where Symmetrical Fiber will be needed.

What you can have and what you do have are two vastly different things. Telling people that they need to have what you yourself won't use is kind of dishonest. If YOU don't need gigabit internet service with Cat 6a wiring to achieve "Fantastic! Same as disc!" streaming, as you ALWAYS boast of getting, why are you telling other people that they need it? Practice what you preach already.

KaliedESCAPE is not a streaming service. It is a download service and their downloaded files are approximately equivalent to disc, not better than disc. Your "other providers" are streaming services and they operate entirely different.

Someone with a dial up internet connection can download the exact same file as someone with gigabit internet service. The latter will just do so a lot faster, but both will be able to play the exact same file in the exact same quality because they downloaded the exact same thing.

However, someone with a dial-up internet connection can not stream in the same quality as someone with gigabit internet service. Here the speed of the internet service largely determines the potential quality of the streamed content. Internet speed has no effect on the quality of a downloaded file.

How can you not know any of this?

No streaming provider anywhere states an upload speed requirement for streaming. Not one. Not anywhere. There is no need for symmetrical internet at all as upload speeds are irrelevant when streaming movies and TV shows. Streaming videos is almost entirely dependent upon download speeds. It is why streaming services ALL list a download speed requirement and NONE of them list an upload speed requirement. You repeat this utter nonsense often and that is why I made that reference earlier. You keep repeating the same debunked garbage over and over and over again.

Symmetrical internet will not help with network congestion, either. An overtaxed server is overtaxed no matter what my internet service speeds happen to be. If Netflix is having a bad server day, increasing my upload speed to match my download speed won't make a lick of difference.

The article that you linked to made no reference to symmetrical internet service. None. A consumer changing his internet service plan will not solve network congestion. The consumer has no control over network traffic or the server capacity to deal with it.

[unberechenbar]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Usually, ... I'm a stickler for bypassing ANY post processing. I love not needing extra processors or extra signal processing. However, I enabled the 8K mode of my JVC NZ8. I know the source of a UHD BD for example is 4K but on the other hand ... I had been up-converting Blu Rays to 4K for quite some time without being too concerned. Having a 4K display means needing to either window box or up-convert lower resolutions.

Is upscaling considered a form of post processing? It's nice that you have the luxury of choosing whether to enable it or not on your projector. I don't think TVs have that option.

[Warm Gun]

Moving all my movies back to the separate volumes on the NAS now. Switched from OpenMediaVault to the more popular FreeNAS.

Wendell, how many movies before you put a director in a folder? I remember you don't use RAID, so I'm guessing separate volumes. Do you keep all your director folders in the same directory or do you put them in whichever drive you've designated for the first letter of their name? I'm trying to figure out how to organize now that I'm sort of starting over.

[alchav21]

Digital or Physical that question is up to every individual, there are Pros and Cons on each side. I'm all Digital now because IMO and setup I don't see a difference, but you have to decide for yourself. With Disc you need a good Display and Player with room to grow your Collection. Digital also a good Display with Solid ISP 50+Mbps. The main thing is to try them both and see which one works best for you.

[Vilya]

Subscribing to streaming services and having a library of discs gives you access to a very wide selection of content. It is really no different than having a cable TV subscription and a disc collection.

Except that streaming is a far better value than cable TV even when using multiple services... and it has few to no commercials depending upon your choices. If you need to ditch something, ditch cable TV. I did 8 years ago and I do not miss it one teeny bit.

And yeah, there is already a long established thread for this type of discussion.

[Vilya]

Ugh. I thought alphabetizing my discs by title within each format was a chore.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The PS5 was found to use a maximum of just 203 watts when gaming and in the U.S. the PS5 costs 4.6 cents per hour to operate or a $1.33 per month for an "average" user. Not much cost savings to be found by curtailing its usage.

https://ecocostsavings.com/ps5-elect...20is%20this%3F

The article that you cited said that the "rebate" incentive period for minimizing power usage was just a 3 hour window that runs from from 17:00 to 20:00. Lowering one's power consumption for 3 hours to qualify for a rebate should not be a drastic hardship on anyone and it is entirely optional.

It’s the fact it’s been mentioned. Consoles, TVs, set top boxes hsven’t been mentioned before. You might say it’s not a hardship but 5pm-6pm is when most people finish work and already these people want to deprive folk of relaxation time. Most people check out the news at 6pm and millions (mostly woman I guess) watch soaps in the early evening. They want us twiddling our thumbs until 8pm but they give us a couple of hours to watch a film or Netflix, bless their hearts! Then it’s off to bed and racing to do our nightly washes and charge our laptops, tablets.

This is a stealth way of getting us used to using less energy while paying the same or more. No way are they going to pay us in the long term. It’s switch and bait.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It’s the fact it’s been mentioned. Consoles, TVs, set top boxes hsven’t been mentioned before. You might say it’s not a hardship but 5pm-6pm is when most people finish work and already these people want to deprive folk of relaxation time. Most people check out the news at 6pm and millions (mostly woman I guess) watch soaps in the early evening. They want us twiddling our thumbs until 8pm but they give us a couple of hours to watch a film or Netflix, bless their hearts! Then it’s off to bed and racing to do our nightly washes and charge our laptops, tablets.

This is a stealth way of getting us used to using less energy while paying the same or more. No way are they going to pay us in the long term. It’s switch and bait.

Barely anyone is going to give up using their TVs during peak hours unless they barely use them anyway. People will just pay extra. It doesn't threaten the future of home theaters at all.

By the way the term is bait and switch; it wouldn't make any sense to make a switch before you cast the bait.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by unberechenbar

Is upscaling considered a form of post processing? It's nice that you have the luxury of choosing whether to enable it or not on your projector. I don't think TVs have that option.

For any given display, it will have a native resolution so we will use a 3840 x 2160 for reference. If sourced with native 3840 x 2160 content then no scaling needed, if sourced with anything less then it will be scaled to the display native resolution.

Some displays use techniques to display a higher resolution than the native resolution of that display. Example is pixel shifting, JVC’s e-shift here.