Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Warm Gun]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

Been a while since I've imported from Germany.

[Show spoiler]

The Children's Hour is out of print in America. Already have Melancholia, but haven't seen the Director's Cut of Nymphomaniac or the other Lars von Trier movies there. Howard's End is said to have burned in German titles for the locations and stuff, unfortunately. I'm told M is more complete than the Criterion version. I don't expect that Roman Polanski movie to be released in America. Don't know if there are any other Fassbinder movies or shows I'll buy after 13 Moons. Collection's pretty good now.

There was other stuff I had on my German Amazon wishlist for so long that it's no longer available.

13.8 GB for the two hour Der Teufels General? 12.8 GB for the 1 hr 55 min Vier Minuten? 17.8 GB for the 2 and a half hour Nymphomaniac, when the American disc is on a BD-50? 1 hr 52 min M at only 12.9 GB? In einem Jahr mit 13 Monden, The Children's Hour and Death and the Maiden are on BD-50s. Es geschah am hellichten Tag at least uses the BD-25 well, at 18.1 GB for 99 minutes. And Howard's End has a video bitrate of 61 Mbps. But I didn't know the Germans who generally such cheap-asses with Blu-ray. I would have just ordered the standalone Dogville if I knew all the von Trier movies were so compressed. Melancholia is also on a BD-25, but on a BD-50 in America.

[Warm Gun]

And the total size of Dogville's m2ts containing the movie is 42.4 GB! Why couldn't they be that nice to the others?

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

• When you buy a disc you are also buying the license to play the content on the disc.
• When you sell a disc you are also selling the license to play the content on the disc.
• When you are given a disc you are also receiving the license to play the content on the disc.
• When you give away a disc you are also giving away the license to play the content on the disc.
• If your disc is stolen you are still the legal owner of the disc and therefore still retain the license to play the content on the disc.
• If your disc is destroyed you are still the legal owner of the disc and therefore retain the license to play the content on the disc.

The license to play the content on a disc is always held by the last legal owner of the disc (and only the last legal owner of the disc).

That should clear up all issues with theft without entertaining your ridiculous notion that all previous owners of a disc retain the license to its content.

Are they going to kick my door in to make sure I have permission to play every disc I own? None of this stuff was made clear to me before I bought the item, and it is not unreasonable to assume I own the copy of the movie since I "bought" it at the store. You can't come in and apply a whole bunch of special conditions after I bought the item. It's funny how these big companies can remove digital copies at any time for any reason, without a refund or any warning, but that's not theft. The way I see it, I paid for the item. I can keep any copies I have of it after I sell the item. Otherwise the movie companies should return my money for the item.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I can relate to the frustration of wanting a tech demo from someone who doesn't know how to use the item.

IMO, most sales people believe they know more than the potential customer and never recognize when they have a knowledgeable customer. Many years ago a sales person insisted that we listen to a pair of high end speakers so we accommodated him, I had a recording (¼ or ½ open reel tape) that our group had of the pipe organ in Riverside Church. He started the tape rolling and turned up the volume, I warned him this recording was not processed (compression, EQ, limiting, etc.) and he needed to turn the volume way down, twice (the spouse even warned him).

He let us know they were the experts and their products could handle anything. Shortly afterward there was a crescendo with lots pipes and pedal tones, then silence and smoke. The poor guy let the smoke out of his speakers and amplifiers and literally started crying. Then had the nerve to accuse me of destroying their product. I responded that he needed to move some of his mouth to his ears and he would have less problems.

That tape took out speakers and/or amps in at least 2 other audio boutiques, all were warned beforehand of the dynamic range on the tape.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

Are they going to kick my door in to make sure I have permission to play every disc I own?

Not likely and we have been over this with you more than once. Suggestion, before you click that “I agree” with your digital purchase you may want to actually read the TOS/EULA. Boring I know but that is the only way to know what it all means.

[Vilya]

I will resist and continue to give this subject a rest as was requested of me.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

• When you buy a disc you are also buying the license to play the content on the disc.
• When you sell a disc you are also selling the license to play the content on the disc.
• When you are given a disc you are also receiving the license to play the content on the disc.
• When you give away a disc you are also giving away the license to play the content on the disc.
• If your disc is stolen you are still the legal owner of the disc and therefore still retain the license to play the content on the disc.
• If your disc is destroyed you are still the legal owner of the disc and therefore retain the license to play the content on the disc.

The license to play the content on a disc is always held by the last legal owner of the disc (and only the last legal owner of the disc).

That should clear up all issues with theft without entertaining your ridiculous notion that all previous owners of a disc retain the license to its content.

Nowheres do you say that the license is for personal use. You CAN NOT have a party at your house and charge admission to see whats on the disc. THAT is illegal. It is specifically spelled out in the license agreement. You failed to mention it.

[Lee A Stewart]

All this discussion about making copies of discs . . .

You going to contact the FBI and report the poster who is making backups for personal use?

No? I didn't think so.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

No stones being cast here!

[Vilya]

This is going to be harder than I thought....

[russweiss1]

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by russweiss1

Hope those smilies are not copyright!

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

All this discussion about making copies of discs . . .

I for one do not like the fact that I have to break the law to view my content with ease in 2.35 which a majority of my movies are in. My project will not stretch UHD content which will be needed should I install a anamorphic lens. My Oppo 203 can stretch except UHD DV disc because DV locks out those controls. Asked Oppo to fix this but it was never done. So I use the zoom method to view 2.35 content, problem, can not see the disc menu items at the bottom of the screen.

Enter Zappiti, it can change its GUI so it fits a 2.35 screen, problem, it can not play physical disc. So disc are copied to the NAS because the Zappiti can play ISO (and several other container) files. But it will never play Blu-ray or UHD Blu-ray because the BDA will not allow players to play ISO. The Oppo will play MKV files but not ones with Atmos. See, its always something.

I have a desire to look at video levels (and vector scope) via my HTPC. Problem, none of the interface cards like the BlackMagic DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G will accept HDMI sources with HDCP 2.2 so will look into using my HDFury Integral II to strip HDCP. Just another PITA.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

I for one do not like the fact that I have to break the law to view my content with ease in 2.35 which a majority of my movies are in. My project will not stretch UHD content which will be needed should I install a anamorphic lens. My Oppo 203 can stretch except UHD DV disc because DV locks out those controls.

[Show spoiler]Asked Oppo to fix this but it was never done. So I use the zoom method to view 2.35 content, problem, can not see the disc menu items at the bottom of the screen.

Enter Zappiti, it can change its GUI so it fits a 2.35 screen, problem, it can not play physical disc. So disc are copied to the NAS because the Zappiti can play ISO (and several other container) files. But it will never play Blu-ray or UHD Blu-ray because the BDA will not allow players to play ISO. The Oppo will play MKV files but not ones with Atmos. See, its always something.

I have a desire to look at video levels (and vector scope) via my HTPC. Problem, none of the interface cards like the BlackMagic DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G will accept HDMI sources with HDCP 2.2 so will look into using my HDFury Integral II to strip HDCP. Just another PITA.

As projectors don't support Dolby Vision anyway, can't you just set your Oppo 203 to force HDR10 when playing a Dolby Vision disc and wouldn't that then allow you to stretch the image as needed?

I am out of my element here, but I just thought I would ask if that is feasible and if so does it just create other problems?

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

As projectors don't support Dolby Vision anyway, can't you just set your Oppo 203 to force HDR10 when playing a Dolby Vision disc and wouldn't that then allow you to stretch the image as needed?

Don't hold my feet to the fire on this one but, IIRC, the controls are still locked out. Been quite awhile since I tried that.

The madVR Labs rep told me the Envy could squeeze my 1.78 and 1.85 content to fit on my zoomed screen but the Envy cost almost what the Sony 6000 projector cost. The Lumagen Radiance Pro may do this but that one is still in the $6000 range.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

All this discussion about making copies of discs . . .

I freely posted here my viewing process. If I had not, no one would have known. No one has been harmed financially by my actions, not one red cent, Amazon, Zappiti and Western Digital all gained financially. As stated earlier I have and will retain ALL my physical copies. If for some reason I should sell, donate or give away a disc title then I will permanently delete that title from the NAS. I have not rented a disc and made a copy, I have not purchased a disc, made a copy then sold the original disc.

I have better things to do, like come here and argue with you guys.

[unberechenbar]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have always just left the top search box set to "blu-ray" or "DVD" and changed the drop down menu to whatever country I wanted to search. I would usually select "global" thinking that would show all releases worldwide. Clearly, it doesn't, so going forward I will do my searches the way you and he suggested.

If you're search with a term that's in several titles it helps to also type in the year of release to narrow it down. But even then if there are too many countries that it has been released in not all of the results will be shown.

[Vilya]

Four more titles of my order trickled in today...in three separate packages.

and

The last 6 titles were delayed supposedly until tomorrow.

It is fun to get a package, or two or three, with new movies three days in a row.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

I freely posted here my viewing process. If I had not, no one would have known. No one has been harmed financially by my actions, not one red cent, Amazon, Zappiti and Western Digital all gained financially. As stated earlier I have and will retain ALL my physical copies. If for some reason I should sell, donate or give away a disc title then I will permanently delete that title from the NAS. I have not rented a disc and made a copy, I have not purchased a disc, made a copy then sold the original disc.

I have better things to do, like come here and argue with you guys.

Not a single person in this thread has stated any problem with your actions. It may or may not be legal, but no one has stated they have any ethical objections to making copies of the discs you own.

Vilya has been arguing that we all should be able to do something that none of us have expressed any interest in doing anyway: keep copies after selling the originals.

[Warm Gun]

Would you rather no one else have it? Because that's what happens all the time with out of print discs. The studio isn't making money off used copies sold at inflated prices. That guy making a copy and then selling is my hero. I don't only because I want the backup disc and it's a hassle. Will probably make more money working than the time it takes to photograph, create the seller page, figure out how to price it, get some packaging, ride my bike to the post office and wait in line. Also, the person who wants it new (all of you) will get it new anyway.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

Would you rather no one else have it? Because that's what happens all the time with out of print discs. The studio isn't making money off used copies sold at inflated prices. That guy making a copy and then selling is my hero. I don't only because I want the backup disc and it's a hassle. Will probably make more money working than the time it takes to photograph, create the seller page, figure out how to price it, get some packaging, ride my bike to the post office and wait in line.

People making back-ups and then selling the originals causes there to be less copies sold in the first-place and therefore more likely to be difficult to find when a title goes out of print.

If 10,000 people want a copy of the movie and no one keeps a copy after selling the original then at least 10,000 copies will have to be made and sold. If people are making copies and then selling the originals 10,000 people could easily have a permanent copy using a drastically smaller number of discs.

It's basically the same issue as illegal copies being downloaded off the internet. It's easy to find both illegal copies and discs shortly after every movie is released but many years later after the movie is no longer popular it could be difficult to acquire the movie in any form if there aren't many copies in circulation.

Everything about my stance is all about there being more physical copies of every movie made and sold. If there are thousands of copies in circulation then every movie will remain readily available to everyone regardless of how popular it continues to be.