Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

A slow week this week; I only added:

and

...but it is progress just the same.

[Warm Gun]

So it seems madVR cannot trigger HDR on Windows 11 with an AMD card (6800). It does trigger HDR after downgrading to Windows 10, but it's washed out. Setting the display in madVR from Auto to 10-bit and above doesn't help. The different hardware decoders don't help, nor does setting them to None.

In Windows 10 and 11, videos still stutter back and forth between frames in the first seconds of seeking somewhere when I have hardware acceleration enabled, with this AMD card. Didn't have this problem with my old Nvidia card on Windows 11 with the same CPU.

I could either use the Zidoo for all my HDR movies and lose the one HDR concert movie that for some reason stutters on that device with its 25 frames a second, or return the AMD card and pay the disgusting premium for an Nvidia card.

I think Resident Evil 2's HDR is also more muted, washed out. Not completely sure.

Actually, if I wanted an Nvidia card with equal or greater power, I'd have to replace my 650 watt PSU, on top of the GPU premium. Yeah, think I'll just give up on watching HDR movies on a computer.

[Warm Gun]

At least there's Kodi for HDR. But the subtitle options are poor. Been trying to find if there's a way to convert one of the subs I wrote from SRT to image-based PGS. Kodi and the Zidoo don't accept the flags I wrote into the SRT to place subs on the left and right. Made sense for a concert.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

Yeah, think I'll just give up on watching HDR movies on a computer.

A few years ago I got the wild hair to watch BD and UHD BD via a computer. Procured a Pioneer UHD BD drive and some other items listed in a thread here. Finally gave up waiting on a MB of ATX size.

As posted earlier, researching Lumagen Radiance Pro for DTM and scaling for projectors used with scope screens.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

A few years ago I got the wild hair to watch BD and UHD BD via a computer. Procured a Pioneer UHD BD drive and some other items listed in a thread here. Finally gave up waiting on a MB of ATX size.

As posted earlier, researching Lumagen Radiance Pro for DTM and scaling for projectors used with scope screens.

Researching that type of product since you planted the seed has been interesting. Testimonials from people way more skilled than I am in the world of video like Sapiendut and Chad who calibrated my JVC say the Lumagen is not worth it. The MadVR is better but so damn expensive. I haven’t closed the book yet, but the recently applied calamine has helped with the itch a bit.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Researching that type of product since you planted the seed has been interesting.

It is always a balancing act, money on one side and benefit one the other. Kris Deering likes the Lumagen, Stacey Spears just procured the madVR Envy. From Stacey's reply to my post (here):

Yea, to avoid madVR vs. Lumagen wars, I will just provide a comment. Mathias has implemented some fancy chroma upsampling algorithms that no one else has. He also added support so I could send 4K120 to an LG to fully bypass their front end processing, ensuring we get proper 5:5 frame repeat for 24p sources when the LG is in PC mode and the LG tone mapping is programmed to be defeated and instead track PQ and hard clip.

I still consider Dolby Vision tone mapping, especially in 4.0, as the king of the hill. Even their old 2.9, which BD uses, is still better than everything else out there. When trim passes are done correctly, they are also more "objectively correct" as you have the artist vision and not just "subjectively pleasing" algorithms.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The streaming version probably has the same missing line of dialog as the 4K disc. Both were likely sourced from the same master.

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

That is trolling, people here have already expressed their dislike of your troll post here. I believe you have already been banned for such actions.

You have proved you can post about titles that you like or dislike or other topics without cheap shots at disc enthusiast. Why not continue in that vein!!

Originally Posted by Ender14

That's why I generally just ignore his posts now. He knows what he's doing.

Aren't we touchy, I'm the only one left supporting Digital, and you guys are very one sided. The HDX goes back to the Blu-ray, and I haven't seen any problems while the 4K Digital might have some. Disc problems, Budget cuts, and Duplication troubles are real. According to the Revenue Report the Break Even Point must be around $4-$5 so just buying Disc is not enough. We all love Movies and TV Shows, and Physical should not be the Deciding Point for a Film Enthusiast!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Aren't we touchy, I'm the only one left supporting Digital, and you guys are very one sided. The HDX goes back to the Blu-ray, and I haven't seen any problems while the 4K Digital might have some. Disc problems, Budget cuts, and Duplication troubles are real. According to the Revenue Report the Break Even Point must be around $4-$5 so just buying Disc is not enough. We all love Movies and TV Shows, and Physical should not be the Deciding Point for a Film Enthusiast!

If people are touchy it is due to your deliberate attempts to provoke them. You are just here to push buttons and to await the inevitable reactions.

You can support digital without making crap up wholesale. No one cares how you spend your money. Why are you so concerned about how we spend ours?

My digital collection is already bigger than yours and in less than two years since I started to build it. It is obvious that I am a bigger supporter of digital than you are.

The new digital copies became available on Nov. 15th. Unless you watched your digital copy of Reservoir Dogs within the last 15 days, your "observation" is irrelevant. In fact, your "observations" are pretty much always irrelevant:

Originally Posted by alchav21

No mystery, IMO I don't see a big difference from HD to 4K.

The 4K digital copy and the HD digital copy are probably both from the new encode that is missing the line of dialog. That's part of the "charm" of buying digital copies; the version you bought yesterday can be changed at any time to the "new and, supposedly, improved version." The new version isn't always better and with digital you have no choice in the matter. You get whatever version they choose to give you.

One such case in point is the HD digital copy of Disney's Bedknobs & Broomsticks. Many people bought the 139 minute extended cut offered in digital HD; the only other way to get the extended version is on DVD. In 2014, Disney released the far shorter theatrical version on blu-ray and ever since that time the only available digital copy is the much shorter 117 minute theatrical cut. Vudu customers that previously owned the extended version got downgraded to the theatrical version losing 22 minutes of the movie that they had purchased. Physical copies never change versions; what you bought yesterday is what you have today and everyday.

Those of us that buy discs are in a far better position to comment about them than someone like you who does not buy any and whose primary purpose here is to troll this forum. If discs were to develop frequent manufacturing defects those of us that actually buy them will do the complaining. My few returns this year were due to discs damaged during shipment to my home. For that, I thank Amazon's sh**** packaging and UPS's psychotic employees.

You know NOTHING of the physical media market. If discs were not still a profitable product, they would not continue to be made. It is just that simple and it should be simple enough for even the simplest of simpletons to understand.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Sounds great, pay more for a defective Disc and hope they fix it. I'll take it on Digital, Physical will keep getting more problems with Budget cuts, dropping Sales, and Duplication Facility troubles!

Your math seems a bit funky. You could have bought a 4k, blu ray plus digital combo pack for under 10 dollars from target yesterday. You are actually paying more for less if you went for the digital copy though vudu.

You also cant resell your hdx copy meaning if you decide to upgrade its value is zero while the previous blu ray holders who want to upgrade can sell their old copy reducing their cost further.

That actually points out a major thing about a digital collection. It has zero value. My physical collection can be resold. my cost of upgrading my Disney dvds to blu ray and 4k is actually negative. If a movie I own goes out of print then I can sell it at a huge mark up while a digital owner cant and is semi likely to even lose access themselves.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

It is always a balancing act, money on one side and benefit one the other. Kris Deering likes the Lumagen, Stacey Spears just procured the madVR Envy. From Stacey's reply to my post (here):

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing the post. Is Mathias from Lumagen or MadVR?

[bhampton]

This (apparently) is why streaming services are getting more expensive.

https://www.theverge.com/23460947/ne...s-truth-behind

"The way streaming services have things set up is a lose-lose situation. I committed to paying a base price for services like Netflix, only to get smacked with repeated price increases and questionable amounts of value added with low-effort originals and cheesy competition television shows. Luring folks in with a low intro price and then cranking things up was always the plan for many of these companies (Disney was especially open about it), but as prices continue to go up, I expect a lot of people will be like me — ready to say enough is enough. When the time comes, I’ll kick aside my Disney Plus or Funimation subscription (because even that’s gone up)."

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by bhampton

This (apparently) is why streaming services are getting more expensive.

https://www.theverge.com/23460947/ne...s-truth-behind

"The way streaming services have things set up is a lose-lose situation. I committed to paying a base price for services like Netflix, only to get smacked with repeated price increases and questionable amounts of value added with low-effort originals and cheesy competition television shows. Luring folks in with a low intro price and then cranking things up was always the plan for many of these companies (Disney was especially open about it), but as prices continue to go up, I expect a lot of people will be like me — ready to say enough is enough. When the time comes, I’ll kick aside my Disney Plus or Funimation subscription (because even that’s gone up)."

As I have said many times, streaming subscriptions business model is built on sand.

[Warm Gun]

Cancelled Netflix finally, at 921 discs. DVDs, DVDs, DVDs, no 4Ks, and when I look around for Blu-rays most I've already rented or don't look that important. Would try Redbox, but can't be assed with no mail service. Because of American zoning laws, everything in most cities is too far away to be convenient. Doubt those drone kiosks are in my city. Never seen one.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Aren't we touchy, I'm the only one left supporting Digital, and you guys are very one sided.

Hello pot, meet kettle. Go look in the mirror.

Some of the disc supporters here have invested quite a bit into streaming. Have a look at this post here tell me what you see. That’s right, quite an investment just for streaming. My total streaming cost per month > $100, what is yours?

Also invested a lot of time doing graphics for URC remote that is used to control streaming devices along with many other things in the home theater. Shield Pro page 1 below.

May want to put your brain in gear before you post a response.

[Show spoiler]

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing the post. Is Mathias from Lumagen or MadVR?

madVR. Jim Peterson is Lumagen.

AVS Lumagen thread here, madVR here.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

As I have said many times, streaming subscriptions business model is built on sand.

Its worse for Vod services. Vod services are pretty similar to a ponzi scheme. IDK if vod services could even survive if companies stopped including digital copies given that they still need to service all the existing digital copies. They cant even raise prices to fix their problems because they still have all their existing commitments that just continue to increase.


If I just stop buying movies I will still have over 500 digital copies which is like a streaming service worth of content in and of itself and they need to maintain that service while I personally could contribute no further money to them.

[Lee A Stewart]

Digital TV Research: Ad-Supported VOD Revenue to Reach $243 Billion by 2028

Global ad-supported VOD revenue from TV shows and movies will reach $243 billion in 2028; an increase of $86 billion from $157 billion in 2022, according to new data from Digital TV Research. The London-based firm contends about $17 billion in AVOD revenue will be added in 2023.

https://www.mediaplaynews.com/digita...llion-by-2028/

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

madVR. Jim Peterson is Lumagen.

AVS Lumagen thread here, madVR here.

I have been checking out and asking questions on the AVS side of things for a bit now. Seems to be a pretty good group on the MadVR thread.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Digital TV Research: Ad-Supported VOD Revenue to Reach $243 Billion by 2028



https://www.mediaplaynews.com/digita...llion-by-2028/

Which of course moves further away from HT. none of us want ads interrupting our films.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Which of course moves further away from HT. none of us want ads interrupting our films.

Few things annoy me more than commercials. I detest them.