Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[veritas]

The annoying thing about 3d is that it was relatively successful considering it had some of the worst marketing ever. Avatar came out made a shit ton of money and so the first thing the studios do is rush out and put out terrible 3d conversions that are a cross talk filled blurry messes. Then the tv guys see all that money and put out some terrible tv's that do terrible 3d for the first generation of 3d buyers. During all of this they also tack on like 50% premiums to 3d discs and 3d tickets so most people judge 3d over just a few films (probably terrible ones given the early 3d run. When the market finally stabilizes and we stop getting terrible 3d films and tvs start producing reliable 3d they pull the plug because they want the next fad of curved tvs or 4k hdr (which is also being marketed terribly but it will probably survive since it actually arrived in the need a new tv cycle as 1080p sets wore out from use)

The summery of this whole thing was their was money to be had with 3d and a market but the tv studios, tv manufacturers and theaters are all way to greedy because they all wanted way to much of the pie (extra 50% on tickets,shit conversions because we pay in advance, Rushed uncalibrated tv's and projectors and expecting people to rebuy televisions before the old ones fail).

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Tell me about it. So frustrating and a perfect example of how tech can slowly vanish from the scene despite many claiming it doesn’t work that way.

That sushi place down the street just closed.

McDonald's must be next!!!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

That sushi place down the street just closed.

McDonald's must be next!!!

Like I said, just stating a fact. Don’t see many 3D tv’s out there. According to you and Donster, these things don’t happen.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Like I said, just stating a fact. Don’t see many 3D tv’s out there. According to you and Donster, these things don’t happen.

Wrong. Go back and read.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

Wrong. Go back and read.

It isn’t wrong at all. As a 3D fan, can I buy a new 3D tv this year? Yes or no?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It isn’t wrong at all.

Neither Donster nor myself has ever said that any and all devices will always and forever be available until the End of Days.

What we have said is that TVs ain't going anywhere cause they ain't.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

As a 3D fan, can I buy a new 3D tv this year? Yes or no?

Beats me. I have no idea what the 2018 lineups look like. [correction: I have read a little about the upcoming TCL models and they sound pretty cool]

The 2018 lineup does still have TVs in it though, right?

Or it all watches already?

[Groot]

People didn't want to wear the charging/bulky active glasses Sony and others had, others didn't even want the regular 3D glasses at home. People with vision issues or wearing glasses found a lot of early home glasses uncomfortable or just unwearable. The market couldn't hold interest. The lack of good 3D content also hurt. There were some gems but the post-conversions were usually trash and there just wasn't enough of dedicated 3D movies out there to justify the cost.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

Neither Donster nor myself has ever said that any and all devices will always and forever be available until the End of Days.

What we have said is that TVs ain't going anywhere cause they ain't.



Beats me. I have no idea what the 2018 lineups look like. [correction: I have read a little about the upcoming TCL models and they sound pretty cool]

The 2018 lineup does still have TVs in it though, right?

Or it all watches already?

You always have to end your post with a piss take, don’t you? Big man.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

3D TVs were never popular in the first place so their lack of continued support isn't at all surprising. But regular TVs have been a staple in the vast majority of households for over 60 years and continue to sell great. Your predictions that they won't be supported in the future is absurd.

Exactly. Most restaurants are lucky to make it through their first year. Restaurants go out of business all the time.

But McDonald's is probably going to be okay.

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

You always have to end your post with a piss take, don’t you? Big man.

Coming from the guy who is constantly taking the piss out of things

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Your claims change with the weather.

Sony Ultra has an average bitrate of 16 Mbps. Sony Ultra only offers Sony titles and it is an expensive service that is only available to owners of certain Sony TVs. It is a poorly rated service overall.

When you do a search for this year's best streaming services, guess who is not even listed? Sony Ultra. It makes none of the lists.

An article dated Dec. 12, 2017 from Digital Trends said this about Sony Ultra:

"you’ll be hard-pressed to find virtually anyone using Ultra, as its many restrictions make it one of the least enticing services on the list, and one of the least battle-tested."

Sony Ultra, and the far better streaming providers, in no way utilize the available bandwidth that some ISPs offer. Try and remember that it is real world results that interest us, not what you think could happen someday somewhere.

You yourself have said on more than one occasion that disc looks better than streaming. Do I need to find more of your quotes to that effect? I sure hope not; reading your posts more than once is more than anyone should have to do.

Your posts often contradict one another and that makes it really difficult to take your comments seriously.

I have never said that BD is better than Streaming Digital HD, maybe UHD 4K Discs. As for Average Bitrates, back in April I talked to Sony Ultra Support and they told me Discs were on the way out and their Average Bitrate were 25Mbps. So your 16Mbps is old information, and I don't see anyone coming up with their own observations. You can look all you want, I have always said it's all Digital, and Streaming from a Player is the same as Streaming from a Server. Discs are just a Storage Device, just like Servers.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I have never said that BD is better than Streaming Digital HD, maybe UHD 4K Discs. As for Average Bitrates, back in April I talked to Sony Ultra Support and they told me Discs were on the way out and their Average Bitrate were 25Mbps. So your 16Mbps is old information, and I don't see anyone coming up with their own observations. You can look all you want, I have always said it's all Digital, and Streaming from a Player is the same as Streaming from a Server. Discs are just a Storage Device, just like Servers.

Yes, you did.

I quoted you one page back in this very thread! Have you lost your ever loving mind?:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=8084

"You get better Sound and Video from Disc because the Bitrate is consistent and higher than most Internet access and Provider Bitrates."

Those are your words in bold print! You wrote them. I could find more quotes where you said this also, but why spend such effort to just embarrass you further? Say what you mean and mean what you say, have you ever heard that expression before?

And you are back to using the word "streaming" incorrectly, too. There is no "streaming" from a disc. Streaming is the receipt of data from a remote server via an internet connection. Disc players do not access a server nor do they need an internet connection to play a disc. How streaming services work and how a disc player works are not the same even if you repeat this nonsense 10,000 more times. Can you not grasp anything? You had it down briefly, but, alas, this, too, has slipped your addled mind.

The only source we have for Sony Ultra delivering bitrates of 25 Mbps is your claim to have heard it from some Sony representative you allegedly spoke with, none of which is verifiable, nor are you a credible source.

The article cited in our previous discussion stated that Sony Ultra averages a mere 16 Mbps just like most other streaming providers. The only streaming provider with a verifiable higher bitrate was Apple 4K TV which averaged the highest of all providers at 30 Mbps.

No one is offering their own observations of Sony Ultra because almost no one has it. It is a badly rated service with a crappy selection, limited to owners of very specific Sony TV models, and all of it overpriced.

Disc sales comprised 22.9% of the home entertainment spending for 2017. Disc is not "on its way out" no matter how much you wish it to happen. No industry is going to forego 22.9% of their total revenue. This information has also been cited in many of our previous conversations, but you always choose to ignore any data you dislike.

I really worry about you sometimes; you can't even remember what you have written despite having written it repeatedly.

[Vilya]

Over in the new redundant thread, BD vs. HD Streaming, I quoted anchovy 21 saying this in a previous post:

"You get better Sound and Video from Disc because the Bitrate is consistent and higher than most Internet access and Provider Bitrates."

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=8084

And he replied with:

"I have never said that BD is better than Streaming Digital HD, maybe UHD 4K Discs."

He doesn't even remember what he, himself, writes.

[alchav21]

Boy you don't like to be wrong, yes I said that but all things being equal if the Bitrate is the same the Quality will be equal right? If an ISP has the same consistent Bandwidth as a Disc, then the Quality will be Disc like correct? You also keep denying that Bitstreaming from a Disc is different than Bitstreaming from a Server. Both read Video Files from a Storage Device. I used my Panasonic Blu-ray Player to read and Stream Video Files from either Disc, Server, or Internet Streaming Provider over HDMI Cable. Answer me this, all things being equal if you have Bitrates equal to Disc and Chrislong2 says 30Mbps, will that equal BD Quality? The answer is yes, so with those Specs you have BD Quality!

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Over in the new redundant thread, BD vs. HD Streaming, I quoted anchovy 21 saying this in a previous post:

"You get better Sound and Video from Disc because the Bitrate is consistent and higher than most Internet access and Provider Bitrates."

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=8084

And he replied with:

"I have never said that BD is better than Streaming Digital HD, maybe UHD 4K Discs."

He doesn't even remember what he, himself, writes.

Okay, on the same note if all things are equal with the same Bitrate as Disc then you will have Disc Quality in Streaming Digital HD correct? The answer has to be yes, so with those Specs Disc Quality has been achieved! Just like a Lawyer, answer the question yes or no!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Boy you don't like to be wrong, yes I said that but all things being equal if the Bitrate is the same the Quality will be equal right? If an ISP has the same consistent Bandwidth as a Disc, then the Quality will be Disc like correct? You also keep denying that Bitstreaming from a Disc is different than Bitstreaming from a Server. Both read Video Files from a Storage Device. I used my Panasonic Blu-ray Player to read and Stream Video Files from either Disc, Server, or Internet Streaming Provider over HDMI Cable. Answer me this, all things being equal if you have Bitrates equal to Disc and Chrislong2 says 30Mbps, will that equal BD Quality? The answer is yes, so with those Specs you have BD Quality!

You and all of these "ifs". I will address that at the end.

Many ISPs already have the bandwidth to accommodate less compressed streams from the streaming providers, but those same streaming providers are not utilizing it. It is not a problem with the ISPs.

Perhaps the streaming providers are not using that bandwidth due to the cost of changing the existing compression of the films they already have in place and perhaps it is because most streaming customers seem to be happy enough with what they already get. Maybe streaming providers do not want to pay the giant ISPs for using still more bandwidth? Maybe streaming providers are worried that their customers will blow through their ISP's data caps? Who knows? The point remains that streaming providers are not utilizing the bandwidth that many ISPs offer.

You still have your terms mixed up. Bit streaming is simply the transfer of data and it encompasses all of the ways in which this can be achieved. I have, in the other thread, detailed many times how data transfer from an optical disc read by a disc player is accomplished in an entirely different manner than data transfer from a server, which uses the internet, to a home theater.

Bit streaming is the broad term whereas streaming is a subset of that term. Streaming is a type of data transfer accomplished over an internet connection where the data can be used as it is still being received. Bit streaming can be accomplished with no networks and no servers, such as what is involved when a disc player reads a disc. Nothing is streamed from a disc because there is no internet involved in the transfer process. It is, rather, bit streamed, which, again, simply means the transfer of data.

I provided you with the dictionary definition of both bit streaming and streaming previously. You keep interchanging these terms.

After the disc player decompresses the received data, either from a disc or other source, it then sends that now uncompressed data over a HDMI cable to a display device. A HDMI cable is just a pipeline between disc player and the display.

Just remember that it is streaming if an internet connection is required to receive that data AND the data can be played while subsequent data is still being received. A download is different in that the data can not be played until the entire file is received.

If the bitrate of a streaming provider truly were to equal that of a disc, it would meet one condition for achieving equality between the two. There are other conditions such as the source of the file used by the streaming provider verses that of the disc, the codecs used, among others, but, in theory, streaming could equal disc. Of course, this also assumes a stable and reliable internet connection for the entire duration of the movie's running time and that the streaming provider can handle the demands upon their servers.

But that's the rub, isn't it? We are left with mere theory here. It is not a reality and therefore the inequality between streaming providers and disc playback remain.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Okay, on the same note if all things are equal with the same Bitrate as Disc then you will have Disc Quality in Streaming Digital HD correct? The answer has to be yes, so with those Specs Disc Quality has been achieved! Just like a Lawyer, answer the question yes or no!

I did answer you. In the "other" thread. You posed more questions over there, so that is where I replied.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=207

The answer is not quite an unequivocal "yes." It is a possibility that remains unrealized. The "if" you keep referring to has not occurred. Could occur is different than has occurred.

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Over in the new redundant thread, BD vs. HD Streaming

[Show spoiler], I quoted anchovy 21 saying this in a previous post:

"You get better Sound and Video from Disc because the Bitrate is consistent and higher than most Internet access and Provider Bitrates."

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=8084

And he replied with:

"I have never said that BD is better than Streaming Digital HD, maybe UHD 4K Discs."

He doesn't even remember what he, himself, writes.

Yeah, I reported and ask that the thread be merged with this thread, but it fell on deaf ears apparently. Kind of like when I suggested there be a poll in this thread

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Shouldn’t this thread be merged?

I ask the same thing when I hit the report button and nothing happened. Like Vilya said, it will eventually happen. It is only a matter of time. I just hope when it does it doesn't create another cluster **** with the old thread

[Jegærn]