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Old 01-23-2020, 02:19 AM   #141
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
As the guy who produced the Knives Out special features, I can tell you it's hard to do... most studio marketing departments just don't care anymore. And if I'm being totally honest... neither do fans, it seems. There was a time when people on these boards would talk about a great documentary or commentary, but now all the chatter seems to be about cover art and what title does or doesn't have a slip cover or getting steelbooks with spine slashes. Even reviews these days, more often than not, simply list the bonus features as bullet points instead of really getting into whether or not they're good or worth watching. Luckily for people who love special features, Lionsgate is more allowing to their special features producers of those sorts of things. I didn't pitch a 2 hour documentary... it just ended up being that. And I was still shooting bits for it a week after the movie came out, which is utterly insane with how early a lot of these things have to be finished now. The easy thing for me was that Rian and his whole team was coming off The Last Jedi, which was one of the most documented films ever made, so I really had some great access toward the end of the process (which is usually where a lot of other making ofs stop). I was able to cover (and include in the documentary) the editing room, the scoring at Abbey Road Studio, the mix at Skywalker Ranch, the promotional push, the premiere... all the way up to recording the commentary for the home release. It really is an A-Z look at making the movie and I'm really happy with how the doc turned out. All the other stuff we just kept packing in there. The Q&A was recorded immediately after the Hollywood Premiere and was one of the rare instances where you had everyone together all in one place. I made sure we included all the trailers and there were these Thombey viral spots that Rian wrote and directed... A lot of this stuff is certainly available on YouTube, but I wanted to make sure it was all included under the same roof in the best quality possible and to their tremendous credit... Lionsgate was always on-board. It's weird to think now, but there was a time before the movie came out when no one really knew how successful Knives Out would ultimately be. But I always pushed to make the disc amazing because even if it wasn't a huge hit theatrically, I knew it would be a massive home video hit.

I was looking at the 4K disc just the other night and it really came out great. I'm excited for people to see it.
Cliff, I speak for everyone when I say "thank you". Your stuff and indeed Lionsgate's commitment to producing it has been a pleasure to watch over the years, but - if I may interject - I think people don't care about extras any more (though the pushback to Joker's commentary being digital only is interesting, if only for how much they whined about that but didn't really give a crap about Dark Fate's commentary being a digital exclusive) because they've become so used to getting sanitised EPK crap from the major studios that's it no longer something to look forward to. It almost becomes a chore rather than a pleasure, maybe that's just me speaking from almost 20 years of doing home video reviews but the quality of it really has nosedived.

I know what some people might say, that they're only interested in stuff that looks back at movies because you get more candid insights - along with more misremembering and myth making too - rather than contemporary views from those involved who might be holding back their feelings. But I get just as much satisfaction from watching these kinds of extensive modern 'soup to nuts' making ofs as I do the 'warts and all' retrospectives because I'm fascinated by movies and movie-making, I love being able to journey through the process and the likes of Charlie de Lauzirika were masters of this craft. Hell, he's made several documentaries that were more interesting than the movies they were about! But with him out of the picture and Laurent Bouzereau similarly shadowy these days, pretty much just doing things for Seņor Spielbergo - we don't hear much from David Prior either - then it's pretty much your good self who's left doing this stuff with any kind of consistency and commitment to quality. May you keep doing it for as long as they'll let you!
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Old 01-26-2020, 01:20 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Cliff, I speak for everyone when I say "thank you". Your stuff and indeed Lionsgate's commitment to producing it has been a pleasure to watch over the years, but - if I may interject - I think people don't care about extras any more (though the pushback to Joker's commentary being digital only is interesting, if only for how much they whined about that but didn't really give a crap about Dark Fate's commentary being a digital exclusive) because they've become so used to getting sanitised EPK crap from the major studios that's it no longer something to look forward to. It almost becomes a chore rather than a pleasure, maybe that's just me speaking from almost 20 years of doing home video reviews but the quality of it really has nosedived.

I know what some people might say, that they're only interested in stuff that looks back at movies because you get more candid insights - along with more misremembering and myth making too - rather than contemporary views from those involved who might be holding back their feelings. But I get just as much satisfaction from watching these kinds of extensive modern 'soup to nuts' making ofs as I do the 'warts and all' retrospectives because I'm fascinated by movies and movie-making, I love being able to journey through the process and the likes of Charlie de Lauzirika were masters of this craft. Hell, he's made several documentaries that were more interesting than the movies they were about! But with him out of the picture and Laurent Bouzereau similarly shadowy these days, pretty much just doing things for Seņor Spielbergo - we don't hear much from David Prior either - then it's pretty much your good self who's left doing this stuff with any kind of consistency and commitment to quality. May you keep doing it for as long as they'll let you!
Thanks Geoff! I really appreciate the love. It's really hard to tell sometimes if this stuff actually reaches people. I agree with you, so much of this material is bland, surface level fluff that its sometimes hard to get people not to tune out all of it. While deep retrospectives are great because you're often getting people to say stuff they might not have said at the time, I do also think there's much treasure to be uncovered from new productions as they're happening. Of the stuff I've worked on, the new stuff (like Hunger Games, Power Rangers, Ghost Rider 2, Hacksaw Ridge, Kin, and now Knives Out) has had the most stuff to explore in depth. When I did Into the Night for Shout, it was a blast to sit down with John Landis and Jeff Goldblum, but the limit of what we could do was just to have them on camera telling stories because A) a lot of the notable cast and crew are no longer alive and B) there's really no other material to compliment the stories being told. With Knives Out, we kind of had the best of both worlds... I was around to actually document things as they were happening (getting to spend a few days up at Skywalker Ranch while they were finishing the mix was mind-blowing for a kid who grew up on Star Wars, Indiana Jones and all things Lucasfilm. In fact the first time I actually was able to watch Knives Out was back in June pretty much in finished form up at the Stag Theater up at the Ranch) but because Rian finishes his movies so early (he was pretty much done with the film and fully ready to show it by 1st week of July) there's this extraordinary period where they're actually between the finish of the film and the release of the film, so there is a bit of distance even on a new film and more stuff happening in the spaces. We were able to cover the promotional build up, the premiere and even the commentary recording within the frame work of the documentary.

Last edited by Cliff; 01-27-2020 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 01-26-2020, 08:12 PM   #143
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Well, these last few posts have certainly gotten me stoked for this release! Just preordered the BestBuy Steelbook.

I saw the movie a couple of weeks ago and I thought it was terrific. I would love to see it again while it's still in theaters; trying to get the rest of my family to clear up their schedules and go with me, since they are even bigger mystery fans than I am.
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Old 01-27-2020, 12:42 AM   #144
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I wasn’t a fan of this film as much as my gf. And I’m a huge Rian Johnson fan.
But this is a day one but for me.
And thank you Cliff. It’s people like you that keep me buying blu-rays and appreciating the fact that the can house something more than just the film. It’s the look at everything involved that makes the art of what we enjoy and helps give us that more appreciation for the films we devour.

Side note, I was wondering how you got into the business of producing content like behind the scenes?
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Old 01-27-2020, 06:06 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
As the guy who produced the Knives Out special features, I can tell you it's hard to do... most studio marketing departments just don't care anymore. And if I'm being totally honest... neither do fans, it seems. There was a time when people on these boards would talk about a great documentary or commentary, but now all the chatter seems to be about cover art and what title does or doesn't have a slip cover or getting steelbooks with spine slashes. Even reviews these days, more often than not, simply list the bonus features as bullet points instead of really getting into whether or not they're good or worth watching. Luckily for people who love special features, Lionsgate is more allowing to their special features producers of those sorts of things. I didn't pitch a 2 hour documentary... it just ended up being that. And I was still shooting bits for it a week after the movie came out, which is utterly insane with how early a lot of these things have to be finished now. The easy thing for me was that Rian and his whole team was coming off The Last Jedi, which was one of the most documented films ever made, so I really had some great access toward the end of the process (which is usually where a lot of other making ofs stop). I was able to cover (and include in the documentary) the editing room, the scoring at Abbey Road Studio, the mix at Skywalker Ranch, the promotional push, the premiere... all the way up to recording the commentary for the home release. It really is an A-Z look at making the movie and I'm really happy with how the doc turned out. All the other stuff we just kept packing in there. The Q&A was recorded immediately after the Hollywood Premiere and was one of the rare instances where you had everyone together all in one place. I made sure we included all the trailers and there were these Thombey viral spots that Rian wrote and directed... A lot of this stuff is certainly available on YouTube, but I wanted to make sure it was all included under the same roof in the best quality possible and to their tremendous credit... Lionsgate was always on-board. It's weird to think now, but there was a time before the movie came out when no one really knew how successful Knives Out would ultimately be. But I always pushed to make the disc amazing because even if it wasn't a huge hit theatrically, I knew it would be a massive home video hit.

I was looking at the 4K disc just the other night and it really came out great. I'm excited for people to see it.
A 2 hour doc? Colour me hyped as a MFer! I had a sneaking sense of dread that "8-part documentary" might have meant eight 2-4 minute featurettes that you tend to find on most releases these days. Fine enough but never getting past anything surface level. This is really great to read, thanks so much for sharing, releases like this are getting rarer and rarer but I'll always champion them and appreciate the work that goes in to actually putting them together. It's not always as simple as "why can't they just do ___" when you need the backing of the studio and people to put in the work to produce it all.

Also concur with the trailer talk on the side of including them. I was recently working with a trailer for JOKER, and had access to the full quality file, and the thing looked fantastic. A discernible difference from YouTube? I think so, but even still, it just makes for a convenient place to have everything on a disc. I'm still baffled the Star Wars discs have zero trailers, when a lot of them were outstanding. Long gone are the days where having the trailer was considered a true "special feature" :P I actually skipped all the trailers for Knives Out and it made for an even more enjoyable experience.
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Old 01-27-2020, 09:15 PM   #146
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I very rarely explore special features anymore unless I am OBSESSED with a particular film. But I will for sure be watching EVERYTHING that's included in this.
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Old 01-27-2020, 09:38 PM   #147
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Looking forward to the UHD. Really looking forward to the extras. Thanks, Cliff!
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Old 01-27-2020, 11:33 PM   #148
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I have a couple of questions for you Cliff actually, if you don't mind. Firstly, what was the thought process on including the in-theatre commentary? Was it always designed to serve as an on disc feature from the start? And you might not have any info on this but some editions are coming with a Harlan Thrombey novella, is that Rian written or not? Cheers!
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Old 01-28-2020, 08:35 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipsterTrash View Post
Side note, I was wondering how you got into the business of producing content like behind the scenes?
Well, I really love movies and began collecting movies in the late 80s. First on VHS, then on LaserDisc, then on DVD. A few years into DVD I started writing reviews for DVDFile.com. After a few years with DVDFile, I decided if I was going to critique special features and DVDs, I should put up or shut up, so I moved to Los Angeles from Denver and started at an entry position at a disc authoring company doing QC. After about a year and a half I was lucky enough that the company got into producing special features and one of the first jobs we got was The Simpsons DVD starting at season 3. So for Seasons 3-8 I was associate producer on The Simpson DVD special features. From there I graduated into a few titles of my own, the first one being Stir of Echoes followed by the Ryan Reynolds comedy Waiting... and then the 15th Anniversary DVD of LA Story. After that I left the company I was working for and started producing full time on my own. The first title on my own was the David Slade movie Hard Candy followed by the Jason Statham movie Crank in 2006. And I've just been working steadily since. Hope that answers the question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorwireRyan View Post
A 2 hour doc? Colour me hyped as a MFer! I had a sneaking sense of dread that "8-part documentary" might have meant eight 2-4 minute featurettes that you tend to find on most releases these days. Fine enough but never getting past anything surface level. This is really great to read, thanks so much for sharing, releases like this are getting rarer and rarer but I'll always champion them and appreciate the work that goes in to actually putting them together. It's not always as simple as "why can't they just do ___" when you need the backing of the studio and people to put in the work to produce it all.
Well, the shortest segment of the doc is about 9 minutes and the longest (sound and music) is actually 24 minutes. They're fairly substantial chapters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorwireRyan View Post
I have a couple of questions for you Cliff actually, if you don't mind. Firstly, what was the thought process on including the in-theatre commentary? Was it always designed to serve as an on disc feature from the start? And you might not have any info on this but some editions are coming with a Harlan Thrombey novella, is that Rian written or not? Cheers!
As for the in-theater commentary... no, it wasn't actually planned for the disc. The day we recorded the commentary with Rian, Steve Yedlin and Noah Segan (which was December 4th, BTW. It's increasingly rare to get to record the commentary AFTER the movie has come out), Rian mentioned that he was going to be recording his solo in-theater commentary the next day. This is something he did for Brothers Bloom and Looper and something he just thought was a cool thing for people who liked the movies. Rian's a big special features guy, so he's down for whatever gets people to connect with the film. When he mentioned he was going to record this, we (myself and Dustin Dean, who oversaw this title for Lionsgate) said we had to include it. So we recorded the main commentary on Wednesday 12/4, Rian recorded the in-theater commentary at his home on Thursday 12/5 and I had his raw audio to do a home theater mix on Friday 12/6. It all moved pretty quickly at the end. I think I had everything for the disc delivered by 12/13 so that goes to show you how we were still adding content to the disc right up until the last minute.

As for the Thrombey novella, I don't have a solid answer but I can say that Rian created all of the material that was "in-universe" such as the viral ads that are on the disc (which he actually wrote and directed). I'd be shocked if he didn't write or at the very least oversee the Thrombey novella. He's pretty hands on with that stuff.
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Old 01-28-2020, 08:36 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by mertz523 View Post
I very rarely explore special features anymore unless I am OBSESSED with a particular film. But I will for sure be watching EVERYTHING that's included in this.
If you include the commentaries, it's about 8 hours of bonus material on the disc.

I hope you enjoy!
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Old 01-28-2020, 08:56 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
If you include the commentaries, it's about 8 hours of bonus material on the disc.

I hope you enjoy!
This is awesome to hear. Definitely going to preorder this.
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Old 01-28-2020, 01:06 PM   #152
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Thanks for the answers Cliff! I had wondered if the commentary situation was as you explained it, that Rian wanted to do it, and you wanted to also include it. Very cool to hear that was pretty much the case!
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Old 01-28-2020, 07:29 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
If you include the commentaries, it's about 8 hours of bonus material on the disc.

I hope you enjoy!
Having just watched Brick for the umpteenth time, this time on blu with the commentary and extras I cannot wait for the extras. Don't let the cardboard crazies deter you, most of us on here love movies and everything that goes in to them.
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Old 01-30-2020, 06:46 AM   #154
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For anyone who's not interested in getting the Target exclusive, there is a free PDF available of Hook, Line and Sinker.
https://blwpublishing.com/blw-publis...and-sinker.pdf
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Old 02-05-2020, 11:42 PM   #155
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If anyone wants a quick sneak peak at some of the upcoming special features, Lionsgate just released a clip from my Rian Johnson: Planning the Perfect Murder featurette.

BE WARNED: SPOILERS INCLUDED

https://collider.com/knives-out-rian...xplains-twist/


.
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Old 02-07-2020, 05:29 PM   #156
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All this talk about features makes me pissed i bought on Fandangonow 50% off and that Lionsgate isn't Movies anywhere

Last edited by flyry; 02-07-2020 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 02-07-2020, 06:53 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyry View Post
All this talk about features makes me pissed i bought on FN 50% off and that LG isn't MA
Fart noises 50% off and lawn grass isn't modern art?
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Old 02-07-2020, 06:56 PM   #158
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I understand those references
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Old 02-07-2020, 07:10 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterKorman View Post
For anyone who's not interested in getting the Target exclusive, there is a free PDF available of Hook, Line and Sinker.
https://blwpublishing.com/blw-publis...and-sinker.pdf
Cool!

Does anyone know if Johnson wrote this himself?
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Old 02-07-2020, 07:56 PM   #160
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FYI Vudu has this on Disc+Digital today.
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