Is 3D dead? (on 3D Blu-ray and 3D TVs)

[Just_Discovered_3D]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

You need to brush up on Sample and Hold tech. It's bad - not good:

https://blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/

OLED has no backlight strobing. And it would literally be impossible for you to see the difference in resolution on a 77" TV 8K vs 16K sitting at a "recommended" distance. Unless you were sitting inches away from the display which would defeat the purpose - a moot point.

Yep, apparent resolution drops like a rock in motion on sample and hold. That's why starting at 16K would be visibly better than starting with 8K.

Backlight strobing, as you've seen some of at that site, comes with its own issues.

I have seen modern reviewers, doing retrospectives on CRT displays, lament that modern sample and hold displays can plummet to just 400 lines of motion resolution. But here's a vintage link mentioning that this problem with motion resolution on sample and hold has been known, analysed, and attempts have been made to quantify it, since the 2000s.

https://www.cnet.com/culture/countin...tion-on-hdtvs/

[Lee A Stewart]

The only real cure for motion blur is to increase the number of frames/sec. This is the problem with 8K. The more you increase resolution, the greater motion blur occurs when content within the frames is in motion. 8K @ 60 FPS isn't enough. 120 FPS is where it has to be at the minimum. That would put 16K at either 240 or 480 FPS.

[Hindustani]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

16K huh. The only way you could see the difference between 8K and 16K on a display for your home is if you put your nose right up against the 16K display.

The purpose of increasing resolution is so you can increase the size of the image. The highest resolution format also had the largest display: IMAX 15/70 film. 12K resolution on the print and screens up to 10 stores tall.

16K on a 77" TV . . . LMFAO!

dude.................you missing my point.

eventually, we'll be watching these 4K UHD movies in VR or metaverse kinda settings.

That is upcoming next. like "dreamscape" at AMC.

Thats when it'll be beyond 8K at 360 hz or 480 hz refresh rate.

to fool your eye sights completely, you will eventually need 3D.

[Just_Discovered_3D]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

The only real cure for motion blur is to increase the number of frames/sec. This is the problem with 8K. The more you increase resolution, the greater motion blur occurs when content within the frames is in motion. 8K @ 60 FPS isn't enough. 120 FPS is where it has to be at the minimum. That would put 16K at either 240 or 480 FPS.

According to Blur Busters, we need greater than 1000 Hz, with greater than 1000 FPS, to achieve something close to blur-free imagery on sample-and-hold displays, without using backlight flickering technology.

Interestingly, their site also says that certain backlight flickering technologies can cause visual artifacts even at up to 10,000 Hz.

This page also outlines their formula for a rule of thumb for figuring motion blur on sample and hold, depending upon the rate of motion. At 60 FPS, one of their applications of this rule produces 16.7 pixels of blur. Applied to the entire frame, That could reduce a 16K image to less than 4K (albeit <=~96% of 4K).



https://blurbusters.com/blur-busters...mple-and-hold/

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Hindustani

dude.................you missing my point.

eventually, we'll be watching these 4K UHD movies in VR or metaverse kinda settings.

That is upcoming next. like "dreamscape" at AMC.

Thats when it'll be beyond 8K at 360 hz or 480 hz refresh rate.

to fool your eye sights completely, you will eventually need 3D.

Really?

We already know that consumers have no love for putting something on their face to watch TV. But VR is going to take over our living rooms?

I don't see it.

80 years. That's how long people have got together to sit in their living room to watch TV. Before TV is was listen to the radio.

But all that's going to change . . . . Not A Snowballs Chance In Hell!

[Joe D.]

Let's think of it this way. They are still manufacturing Blu-ray players with 3D built in. So there might be a chance that monitors might be equipped with 3D sometime again as well.

https://www.gadgetreview.com/sonys-3...-or-ipod-touch

[Jay G.]

Originally Posted by Joe D.

Let's think of it this way. They are still manufacturing Blu-ray players with 3D built in. So there might be a chance that monitors might be equipped with 3D sometime again as well.

I recall some Blu-ray players being able to play VCD, but that doesn't mean anyone was thinking VCD was going to make a comeback.

The 3D Blu-ray feature is still being included in players because they already developed the tech for their players years ago, and it barely costs anything to keep the feature in their players. It's there to serve the existing TVs and the really niche projector market. It's not indicative of manufacturers thinking 3D TVs will make a comeback.

[BeastCreatureTrapper]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Really?

We already know that consumers have no love for putting something on their face to watch TV. But VR is going to take over our living rooms?

I don't see it.

80 years. That's how long people have got together to sit in their living room to watch TV. Before TV is was listen to the radio.

But all that's going to change . . . . Not A Snowballs Chance In Hell!

I've been hearing about virtual reality taking over the consumer market for the past 40 years and, quite frankly, the technology has barely advanced much in that period.

Until they can engage all the senses with vr, then nobody really has a need for it, outside of very-specific training simulations.

That level of truly-immersive tech is so far away, that anyone reading this post will be long dead before then.

[ryudoadema]

Originally Posted by BeastCreatureTrapper

I've been hearing about virtual reality taking over the consumer market for the past 40 years and, quite frankly, the technology has barely advanced much in that period.

Until they can engage all the senses with vr, then nobody really has a need for it, outside of very-specific training simulations.

That level of truly-immersive tech is so far away, that anyone reading this post will be long dead before then.

Have you been living under a rock the last 5 years?!

Facebook (cringe) is all in with VR/XR and are out-selling Xbox with something around 16 million of just their latest headset sold. That is not counting their previous one nor the many others especially PSVR, which I think is the next best selling headset. Then PSVR2 is coming out in early 2023...

Valve says they are a lot closer to fully realized BCI (controlling VR with your thoughts) than we think. We have haptic gloves and suits, rapidly-evolving movement solutions, finger/eye/face/body tracking, scent modules (gimmicky at the moment imo). 1:1 sub-millimeter accurate 6-dof movement all but indistinguishable from real life movement has been there from the get-go.

The first 2 truly consumer-ready headsets just released 6 years ago in 2016. I got my first one in 2017. Since then I've gotten a few new headsets and the advancements have been huge. Doubling of FOV; quadrupling of resolution; wireless; finger/hand and eye-tracking; off-the-ear headphone with great 3d sound; lighter and more comfortable.

All I know is I am very much enjoying jumping into VR weekly to play some mini-golf; go fishing; or watch some 3d movies in a virtual theater with friends and family from all over the place.

[BeastCreatureTrapper]

Originally Posted by ryudoadema

Have you been living under a rock the last 5 years?!

Facebook (cringe) is all in with VR/XR and are out-selling Xbox with something around 16 million of just their latest headset sold. That is not counting their previous one nor the many others especially PSVR, which I think is the next best selling headset. Then PSVR2 is coming out in early 2023...

Valve says they are a lot closer to fully realized BCI (controlling VR with your thoughts) than we think. We have haptic gloves and suits, rapidly-evolving movement solutions, finger/eye/face/body tracking, scent modules (gimmicky at the moment imo). 1:1 sub-millimeter accurate 6-dof movement all but indistinguishable from real life movement has been there from the get-go.

The first 2 truly consumer-ready headsets just released 6 years ago in 2016. I got my first one in 2017. Since then I've gotten a few new headsets and the advancements have been huge. Doubling of FOV; quadrupling of resolution; wireless; finger/hand and eye-tracking; off-the-ear headphone with great 3d sound; lighter and more comfortable.

All I know is I am very much enjoying jumping into VR weekly to play some mini-golf; go fishing; or watch some 3d movies in a virtual theater with friends and family from all over the place.

Yeah, sorry, you're the exception.

I don't know anyone who owns vr gear. I bet I could go outside right now, ask 50 people if they have vr gear and be lucky to get one who does.

It's great that you enjoy it, but vr is not a household staple. Not even close.

[ryudoadema]

Originally Posted by BeastCreatureTrapper

Yeah, sorry, you're the exception.

I don't know anyone who owns vr gear. I bet I could go outside right now, ask 50 people if they have vr gear and be lucky to get one who does.

It's great that you enjoy it, but vr is not a household staple. Not even close.

Yeah I'm not arguing that it's still a minority of people. I bet quite a few of those people know a kid or two who has one since last Christmas it was a big deal. It is slowly gaining traction, but to say no advancement in 40 years when just the past 10 has seen leaps... I was talking about how all these things are not that far off, and many of them are already here. It's already very immersive and involves all the sense in varying degrees. Besides I don't mind not having integrated smell when I'm sitting in a virtual theater and I hear my brother, hundreds of miles away, rip one

I have several headsets. My brother, sister, mother, and uncle all have one. If I had friends maybe some of them would have one lol. 3 of those 4 relatives lived in different states than me. Once they saw how we could hang out as if we were in the same room/theater/area and enjoy all the things I mentioned above, they were quickly sold on it. My mom (60) who doesn't game or mess with technology had the biggest smile her first time putting it on and seeing her old house, then playing the popular "Beat Saber". It does have wide appeal, but will take some time for sure to be a household staple.

[LordoftheRings]

https://www.space.com/avatar-james-c...r-way-of-water

Anyone have seen the new remastered Avatar in 4K/3D?

[Joe D.]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

https://www.space.com/avatar-james-c...r-way-of-water

Hi lord,

Thanks for the article. If the restored 3d version is released on Blu-ray I would definitely add this second copy to my collection, even though unable to see it in 4K.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Joe D.

Hi lord,

Thanks for the article. If the restored 3d version is released on Blu-ray I would definitely add this second copy to my collection, even though unable to see it in 4K.

The only best way to see it in both 3D & 4K @ the same time is from equipped IMAX theaters.
For home what some of us want (I for example) is 3D/4K Blu-rays et 3D/4K large OLED displays.
One of these days perhaps ...

Bang Zoom ...You're Going to the Moon! - YouTube

* Bob's my real name (LordoftheRings is just a username because I luv that trilogy; impactful visually and auditory).

[LordoftheRings]

Avatar remastered 4K/3D re-release in theaters is doing pretty bloody well.
That augurs positive with The Way of Water 3D next December.
We'll see if it can match up Maverick 2D.

Can 3D be resurrected in our TVs finally? Only time will tell ... and money of course, and 3D glasses-free. We're about to enter the next zone ... I think. ...The Way of Water ... in 3D.

[Just_Discovered_3D]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Avatar remastered 4K/3D re-release in theaters is doing pretty bloody well.
That augurs positive with The Way of Water 3D next December.
We'll see if it can match up Maverick 2D.

Can 3D be resurrected in our TVs finally? Only time will tell ... and money of course, and 3D glasses-free. We're about to enter the next zone ... I think. ...The Way of Water ... in 3D.

With the VR craze, is glasses-free 3D still needed?

[revgen]

Originally Posted by Just_Discovered_3D

With the VR craze, is glasses-free 3D still needed?

It is necessary if you want 3D to expand beyond a niche market.

[Joe D.]

"Bob's my real name (LordoftheRings is just a username because I luv that trilogy; impactful visually and auditory)."

Okay Lord Bob.

[esmeron]

Who watches 3D even anymore? That's long dead...
:d

[film11]

Originally Posted by esmeron

who watches 3d even anymore? That's long dead...
:d

lol