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Go Back   Blu-ray Forum > Audio > Speakers

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Old 02-16-2021, 12:14 AM   #41
azmodeous azmodeous is offline
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I think one of the biggest things for a lot of folks is having a clean, open space without a lot of clutter. When you get into a dedicated audio system, you're looking at lots of wires that unless you do a remodel to run them through the walls you either have to conceal them as neat as possible or you end up with wire strowed around the room. It's a lot of hassle for most people. A TV can be placed on a stand or hung on a mount and look fairly neat in a living room.

I got rid of my 5.1 surround sound system about 2 years ago in favor of a "Dolby Atmos" soundbar largely to clear up the clutter of wires in my living room but I kind of regret not just saving for a better surround system instead. Especially after moving and getting rid of so much stuff I had lying around (and still working on letting go of more). I'm looking into a new UHD player in a few months then putting aside for a better surround sound system are my next goals in my neverending quest to get the most out of my viewing experience.
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:07 PM   #42
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Because the majority of people don't understand that the audio, especially the music and score, account for at least half of our emotional response to a movie. Watching a movie or TV show is often just a distraction from everyday life for them. It is not an important part of their lives, as it is for many of us. Also, many will buy a big screen primarily to watch sports and don't even care about what the announcers are saying.
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Old 04-08-2021, 04:56 PM   #43
crutzulee crutzulee is offline
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There are just too many factors that go into this question for there to be any definitive answer. The conversation though is a lot of fun.
As the old guy at my place of employment, I'm constantly being asked to recommend classic titles. While I'm always happy to nurture a budding love of film, I'm always heartbroken when I see one of my guys watching one of my careful recommendations on their phone... consumed in chunks between work obligations..NO NO NO CE PAS COMME SA!! I cry out.. you will never get a second chance to have your first viewing of SILENCE OF THE LAMBS!!!.. and so it can be a generational thing..

For those of us who grew up in a time where going to the movies was an "event", the screening of a "film" and how it is presented is very important. I'm so fortunate to have a dedicated room for this. My wife new this was important to me when she married me. I sit 10 feet away from a projected 4K 120" image with 7.4.4 timberlally matched full range speakers.
If I were a bachelor, and required only one main listening position, I might opt for an expensive 2 channel setup with the largest display my space could accommodate over lesser 5.1 system..
Also, viewing preference should be taken into consideration. I watch EVERYTHING.. if my viewing was made up of only rom coms or Woody Allen movies (mostly mono), I would out for a more modest setup as I agree with some earlier points about the content drawing you in first and foremost... in these cases..
.. but when I watch a late night horror movie, a well engineered soundtrack made by those who truly understand what ATMOS is about ( HINT - it's NOT about discreetly placed sounds coming from behind you or right above you)..well the presentation can MAKE the movie..
When I watch a sci-fi action movie, I want to FEEL the ship take off in a way that only 4 subs and tactile transducers can recreate..

Last edited by crutzulee; 04-08-2021 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 04-09-2021, 10:54 AM   #44
bhampton bhampton is offline
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I found my neighbor a 50 inch TCL 4K series 4 for $168 new clearance type thing.

She loves it and now hosts movies.

I need to buy her a soundbar at least because hearing the TV is a challenge.

Last edited by bhampton; 04-09-2021 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 04-09-2021, 12:02 PM   #45
muddyduck muddyduck is offline
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I spent more on my speakers then I did on my tv
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Old 04-09-2021, 01:07 PM   #46
Pondosinatra Pondosinatra is offline
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Because people generally are dumb?
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Old 04-09-2021, 02:06 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post
Almost everyone I know has a larger TV than me. I only have a 43" TV but most people I know have 50"+. But here's the funny thing, I'm the only that seems to have a 5.1 surround setup. Everyone else I know that has the nice big TV uses their TV speakers for their sound. Why spend money on such a big TV if you're not buying the proper speakers for it?
Space issues. Investing in a good system. I can't drill holes in walls to hide wires in a place I rent. Once I get my own bigger place, upgrading sound will be top priority. I have a decent pair of speakers I use for now.

I'm more baffled when I see zombie hordes fight on Black Friday to buy fancy 4k TVs so they can watch streaming video and DVDs on it, then complain they don't see the difference in quality from something that had before that's much older. When it comes to buying choices for most people, for anything not just TVs, it's usually a monkey see, monkey do mentality.
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Old 04-12-2021, 12:18 PM   #48
Hitman Horton Hitman Horton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post
Almost everyone I know has a larger TV than me. I only have a 43" TV but most people I know have 50"+. But here's the funny thing, I'm the only that seems to have a 5.1 surround setup. Everyone else I know that has the nice big TV uses their TV speakers for their sound. Why spend money on such a big TV if you're not buying the proper speakers for it?
To you that's the "proper" speaker setup. Some would also say that your setup is wrong because it's only 5.1. It's a personal preference and nothing more. Everybody's got the system that works for them. Nothing at all wrong with that.
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Old 04-12-2021, 02:06 PM   #49
MrHT MrHT is online now
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Originally Posted by Hitman Horton View Post
To you that's the "proper" speaker setup. Some would also say that your setup is wrong because it's only 5.1. It's a personal preference and nothing more. Everybody's got the system that works for them. Nothing at all wrong with that.
Well, 5.1 is better than TV speakers, no?
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Old 04-13-2021, 03:20 AM   #50
Hitman Horton Hitman Horton is offline
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Originally Posted by MrHT View Post
Well, 5.1 is better than TV speakers, no?
That's up to each person to decide for themselves. It also depends on what you're using it for. If you mostly watch sitcoms, is it necessary. Also, if you're a collector of older movies and you prefer to listen to the original audio, you'd have no use for 5.1. It's not as easy as saying more speakers is better in every situation.

Last edited by Hitman Horton; 04-13-2021 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 04-13-2021, 12:40 PM   #51
beefytwinkie beefytwinkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitman Horton View Post
That's up to each person to decide for themselves. It also depends on what you're using it for. If you mostly watch sitcoms, is it necessary. Also, if you're a collector of older movies and you prefer to listen to the original audio, you'd have no use for 5.1. It's not as easy as saying more speakers is better in every situation.
I know the topic is why do people buy nice TV's and do not upgrade audio but some people don't care about the TV either. My brother and one of my friends both have the same model Samsung 55-inch 1080p television from like 2009 or 2010 and both TV's have somehow not only lasted this long but still run perfectly.

I asked if they wanted to upgrade to a 4K television for like $500 or whatever and both responded the same way. "It looks fine. I'll wait for this to die."

I will concur. For 1080p content they stream like Sling, Hulu, Netflix, Prime, etc, their TV's look perfect.
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Old 04-13-2021, 12:52 PM   #52
bubaglobalj bubaglobalj is offline
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Simple, it's a space issue. We live in a two bedroom and my wife would kill me if I started setting up a giant subwoofer and multiple speakers. So for now, soundbar it is!
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Old 04-13-2021, 01:10 PM   #53
AMenard AMenard is offline
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Iíve bought my first 5.1 avr in 1999. I still have my original speakers set, Technics SBT-200 tower x4 and Polk Audio center, plus a cheap wharfedale sub. Iím up to my 5th AVR since I upgraded from no HDMI inputs to HDMI, then TrueHD/Dts-ma to HDMI 2.1 Atmos.

For the last two year I was making do with a 3.0 setup since I was in the process of rebuilding my HT setup. Now, Iím in the process of reinstalling my HT and 5.1 with a pair of Atmos up firing pair on my new Denon AVR-S960H
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Old 04-13-2021, 06:35 PM   #54
Hitman Horton Hitman Horton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beefytwinkie View Post
I know the topic is why do people buy nice TV's and do not upgrade audio but some people don't care about the TV either. My brother and one of my friends both have the same model Samsung 55-inch 1080p television from like 2009 or 2010 and both TV's have somehow not only lasted this long but still run perfectly.

I asked if they wanted to upgrade to a 4K television for like $500 or whatever and both responded the same way. "It looks fine. I'll wait for this to die."

I will concur. For 1080p content they stream like Sling, Hulu, Netflix, Prime, etc, their TV's look perfect.
I feel the same way. I know I'll eventually get a 4K tv but that's only because a regular HD TV won't be available. I won't upgrade my blu-ray player and start buying 4K movies because I don't feel it's necessary. For me, 1080p is great.
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Old 04-13-2021, 07:23 PM   #55
smithb smithb is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitman Horton View Post
That's up to each person to decide for themselves. It also depends on what you're using it for. If you mostly watch sitcoms, is it necessary. Also, if you're a collector of older movies and you prefer to listen to the original audio, you'd have no use for 5.1. It's not as easy as saying more speakers is better in every situation.
It's not just about the number of speakers, but the quality of speakers. TV speakers just can't compare to a pair of decent bookshelf speakers. And a TV with stereo speakers can't compare to a 3.0 setup when the content contains a discrete center channel.

I hate fiddling with the volume during a show where the best volume for the talking doesn't match the best volume for the action scenes. Having a 3.0 setup provides flexibility to set the channel level to best match the individual, which can't be done with a stereo setup. And most content from the last 20 years likely has a discrete center channel.

Another pet peeve is watching something with any low-end audio content where TV speakers distort. Even older movies can have low-end audio. I don't have this problem with a decent set of bookshelf speakers.

Not saying a person can't be happy with just TV speakers, but if one ever finds themself compromising audio (living through volume and distortions issues) because they feel a full 5.1 or greater setup would need too much space, cost too much, be difficult to setup, or would look out of place, there are options.

As far as form factor, my only 7.1 setup is in my basement HT. My bedroom and family room each have 3.0 setups. No wiring issues with surround speakers. No large audio components (there are low profile receivers that don't take up much space, I have a Pioneer that is only 2" high). You can even go in-wall to save space. There is no content I've ever watched in my 3.0 setups that I can't honestly say sounds better then my TV speakers, not even close.
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Old 04-14-2021, 02:24 AM   #56
Hitman Horton Hitman Horton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithb View Post
It's not just about the number of speakers, but the quality of speakers. TV speakers just can't compare to a pair of decent bookshelf speakers. And a TV with stereo speakers can't compare to a 3.0 setup when the content contains a discrete center channel.

I hate fiddling with the volume during a show where the best volume for the talking doesn't match the best volume for the action scenes. Having a 3.0 setup provides flexibility to set the channel level to best match the individual, which can't be done with a stereo setup. And most content from the last 20 years likely has a discrete center channel.

Another pet peeve is watching something with any low-end audio content where TV speakers distort. Even older movies can have low-end audio. I don't have this problem with a decent set of bookshelf speakers.

Not saying a person can't be happy with just TV speakers, but if one ever finds themself compromising audio (living through volume and distortions issues) because they feel a full 5.1 or greater setup would need too much space, cost too much, be difficult to setup, or would look out of place, there are options.

As far as form factor, my only 7.1 setup is in my basement HT. My bedroom and family room each have 3.0 setups. No wiring issues with surround speakers. No large audio components (there are low profile receivers that don't take up much space, I have a Pioneer that is only 2" high). You can even go in-wall to save space. There is no content I've ever watched in my 3.0 setups that I can't honestly say sounds better then my TV speakers, not even close.
Actually, if you're using multi-channel audio the way that it's intended it's not flexible. All speakers are meant to be set at the same level. If you're raising the level of the center channel, that's totally fine, but not the way it was intended to be used.

In addition, low end distortion could quite likely be caused by increasing the bass level on your TV. In my opinion, this is something that should never be done. All equalizing levels should be set to zero. Changing them changes the mix of the audio that was intended by the person or people that recorded it.

You are correct that quality of speakers is a factor as well. There are also many more factors. I just chose not to include them.
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Old 04-14-2021, 04:15 AM   #57
smithb smithb is offline
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Actually, if you're using multi-channel audio the way that it's intended it's not flexible. All speakers are meant to be set at the same level.
If you are going to take that approach, listening to multi-channel in anything but a multi-channel setup is not as intended. However, to your point, room dynamics can have a lot to do with the sound, so while all channels are meant to be at an equal level, setting them to all the same level generally doesn't work unless the room is designed specifically for it. Therefore, flexibility in adjusting the levels individually is necessary to even create a balanced level. Also, within some environments, like a bedroom, some may prefer the center channel to be a bit higher so as to not wake up the rest of the house during night time viewing. To coin one of your phrases "That's up to each person to decide for themselves". TV speakers just don't come close to providing these options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitman Horton View Post
In addition, low end distortion could quite likely be caused by increasing the bass level on your TV. In my opinion, this is something that should never be done. All equalizing levels should be set to zero.
In my experience, TV speakers are just too small and incapable of handling low-end sound included in much of what is released today, TV of the past few decades, or even included in many older movies mixed for a theater environment. It has nothing to do with bumping bass levels on the TV but just an inadequacy in the speakers provided.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitman Horton View Post
Actually, if you're using multi-channel audio the way that it's intended it's not flexible.

If you're raising the level of the center channel, that's totally fine, but not the way it was intended to be used.

Changing them changes the mix of the audio that was intended by the person or people that recorded it.
Interesting...in that much of what you have previously stated seems to lean towards whatever works for someone is okay, but then you come up with these catch phrases as if stereo speakers in a TV can come close to the intended sound on their own. Even the placement of the speakers within many TV's is a compromise to the sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitman Horton View Post
You are correct that quality of speakers is a factor as well. There are also many more factors. I just chose not to include them.
Please share...it is a discussion after all.

My main point, is that there is a happy middle ground with a 3.0 system that cannot only out perform TV speakers or soundbars to achieving that "as intended sound" as you say without sacrificing a lot of money, space, or convenience, but also some of annoyances people may be noticing. Whether it fits your listening approach was never a concern. I quoted your post mainly for others to see a different perspective that they may not have realized was available.
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Old 04-14-2021, 05:23 AM   #58
Hitman Horton Hitman Horton is offline
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My opinion has never changed on this subject. To be clear, the title mentions "proper" speakers. There is no such thing. What I choose to use is correct. What anybody else chooses to use is also correct.
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Old 04-14-2021, 06:08 AM   #59
smithb smithb is offline
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My opinion has never changed on this subject. To be clear, the title mentions "proper" speakers. There is no such thing. What I choose to use is correct. What anybody else chooses to use is also correct.
We must have different definitions of the word "correct". Based on a quick search:

"Correct: free from error; in accordance with fact or truth."

And then taking into consideration your own previous posts:

"If you're using multi-channel audio the way that it's intended it's not flexible."

"If you're raising the level of the center channel, that's totally fine, but not the way it was intended to be used."

"Changing them changes the mix of the audio that was intended by the person or people that recorded it."

Then I would say "Correct" is not proper when referencing TV speakers. However, if a system fits one's needs then that is fine and it does not have to be correct. I would never advocate for anyone to go beyond what they find adequate. Again, my post was never about you or your preferences, it was geared to anyone that finds no middle ground between TV speakers and a full blown multi-speaker surround system.

Of course I do find a 3.0 system to be at least more correct then TV speakers.
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Old 04-14-2021, 11:47 AM   #60
Hitman Horton Hitman Horton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithb View Post
We must have different definitions of the word "correct". Based on a quick search:

"Correct: free from error; in accordance with fact or truth."

And then taking into consideration your own previous posts:

"If you're using multi-channel audio the way that it's intended it's not flexible."

"If you're raising the level of the center channel, that's totally fine, but not the way it was intended to be used."

"Changing them changes the mix of the audio that was intended by the person or people that recorded it."

Then I would say "Correct" is not proper when referencing TV speakers. However, if a system fits one's needs then that is fine and it does not have to be correct. I would never advocate for anyone to go beyond what they find adequate. Again, my post was never about you or your preferences, it was geared to anyone that finds no middle ground between TV speakers and a full blown multi-speaker surround system.

Of course I do find a 3.0 system to be at least more correct then TV speakers.
I have absolutely no idea what the point is that you're trying to make here.
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