Is PCM better than Dolby Digital?

[tolledesign]

I have just started building my collection of blu-ray discs and was wondering if PCM is the best sound over Dolby Digital 5.1? Please help...

[dgator783]

its like asking is Blu-ray better than VHS?


ITs loads better....nothing beats uncompressed audio....its sex for the ears

[Sporty]

That's like asking if CD's sound better then MP3's.

PCM is the best you can get.

[Brian Cash]

Originally Posted by Sporty

That's like asking if CD's sound better then MP3's.

PCM is the best you can get.

what does that mean i have mp3s that sound better then actual cd and i have cd's that sound better then mp3s

[nhaase]

Yes, PCM is uncompressed audio, whereas Dolby Digital is compressed, which compromises quality for space. Dolby TrueHD, on the other hand, is a lossless audio format, like a zip file, which is identical to PCM, in theory (I won't get into that debate).

[un4gvn94538]

Originally Posted by nhaase

Yes, PCM is uncompressed audio, whereas Dolby Digital is compressed, which compromises quality for space. Dolby TrueHD, on the other hand, is a lossless audio format, like a zip file, which is identical to PCM, in theory (I won't get into that debate).

debates are because of personal taste. like bitstreaming vs decoding by the player. people hear different things. but in this case about what your asking, most if not all think pcm is better. but let your ears test em out.

[tolledesign]

Ok, so if I have the option for PCM, go ahead and always set to that? I'm still confused on what Dolby TrueHD is? For example, on my 300 BD, is it better to use TrueHD audio or PCM? They give you both options...

Sorry for the questions, just trying to get the best out of my discs...

[skrill]

Originally Posted by tolledesign

Ok, so if I have the option for PCM, go ahead and always set to that? I'm still confused on what Dolby TrueHD is? For example, on my 300 BD, is it better to use TrueHD audio or PCM? They give you both options...

Sorry for the questions, just trying to get the best out of my discs...

From Hi-Def Digests review:

Warner has supplied both next-gen editions with matching Dolby TrueHD 5.1 surround tracks (48kHz/16-bit), but this Blu-ray is also graced with an additional PCM 5.1 surround option (48kHz/16-bit/4.6mbps). Right upfront, the PCM sounded a bit louder, but after some level matching, a direct A/B comparison of several scenes revealed only slight differences. Although I'm sure this disc will stir up the whole TrueHD vs PCM debate, either way you slice it, the action scenes in '300' deliver the kind of demo-worthy audio that should be pure nirvana for any home theater enthusiast.

[Sporty]

Originally Posted by tolledesign

Ok, so if I have the option for PCM, go ahead and always set to that? I'm still confused on what Dolby TrueHD is? For example, on my 300 BD, is it better to use TrueHD audio or PCM? They give you both options...

Sorry for the questions, just trying to get the best out of my discs...

Just use Skrill's chart.

IMO I would use PCM as a first option if your receiver supports it. It's the sound completely uncompressed in it's pure form. DTS-MA and TrueHD are my second choices if PCM isn't available. They are lossless, compressed but without dropping data.
Everything else is highly compressed with dropped data to save space. When I first got my DTS DVD player I tried Apollo 13 DTS version and have been a audio snob every since, the different is large for me.

[tolledesign]

thanks to everyone to has been so quick to response. I really appreciate it...

[teemacone]

I run 5.1 analogs out of my Sony BDPS-1 and I get real good sound out of my Pioneer 82 with both PCM and DTHD. However, I have to say that the DTS MA, which I know only comes out at legacy DTS, sounds awesome. X3 and especially Live Free or Die Hard are pretty much demo material on my system.

[unreal1080p]

Originally Posted by tolledesign

Ok, so if I have the option for PCM, go ahead and always set to that? I'm still confused on what Dolby TrueHD is?

#1 = PCM (Lossless-Uncompressed)
#2 = DTS-HD MA (Lossless-Compressed)
#3 = Dolby TrueHD (Lossless-Compressed)*
#4 = DTS-HD (Lossy-Compressed)
#5 = DTS (Lossy-Compressed)
#6 = Dolby Digital 5.1 (Lossy-Compressed)**


* Because it often uses Dialog Normalization, Dolby TrueHD is ranked below DTS-HD MA. DTS-HD MA also tops out at a theorectical maximum of 24.5 mbps vs only 18.0 mbps for Dolby TrueHD.

** Because of Dialog Normalization and lower bitrates (448 kbit/s) Dolby Digital 5.1 is ranked below DTS (768 kbit/s or 1536 kbit/s depending on the movie)

[skrill]

PCM = TrueHD = DTS-MA -- these are "lossless" tracks and sound great. Make sure that your player and/or receiver can handle and decode the TrueHD and/or DTS-MA tracks. PCM needs to be handled by HDMI to get full 5.1 (or 7.1) sound.

Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HR are approximately equal -- lossy next-gen HD codecs, but generally very good.

DTS -- the best of the older DVD codecs.

Dolby Digital -- the most compressed of the codecs. But it still sound decent -- but not as good as any of the above.

[Sean4000]

Originally Posted by skrill

PCM = TrueHD = DTS-MA -- these are "lossless" tracks and sound great. Make sure that your player and/or receiver can handle and decode the TrueHD and/or DTS-MA tracks. PCM needs to be handled by HDMI to get full 5.1 (or 7.1) sound.

Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HR are approximately equal -- lossy next-gen HD codecs, but generally very good.

DTS -- the best of the older DVD codecs.

Dolby Digital -- the most compressed of the codecs. But it still sound decent -- but not as good as any of the above.

Thank you for that breakdown. I am going to use it now.

[hitechiowa]

Originally Posted by skrill

PCM needs to be handled by HDMI to get full 5.1 (or 7.1) sound.
.

not true dude, you can get full 5.1 pcm via 5.1 analog out on players like the Sony S300 and others, you are partially correct in the 7.1 part, 7.1 pcm needs to be handled by hdmi. not bashing you or saying your wrong just givin a fellow poster some info

[crackinhedz]

you are partially correct in the 7.1 part, 7.1 pcm needs to be handled by hdmi.

not true dude.

multichannel analog can also handle 7.1 (ex. Panasonic DMP BD-10a)

[skrill]

Originally Posted by hitechiowa

not true dude, you can get full 5.1 pcm via 5.1 analog out on players like the Sony S300 and others, you are partially correct in the 7.1 part, 7.1 pcm needs to be handled by hdmi. not bashing you or saying your wrong just givin a fellow poster some info

I am sorry -- you are 100% correct. I always forget about analog outs. I was only referencing toslink (optical cable) outs versus HDMI.

Toslink cannot transport any of the next gen codecs or uncompressed PCM in 5.1 (this includes -- DD+, TrueHD, DTS-MA and DTS-HR).

[Blu Falcon]

crackinhedz is my hero.

[PuzZLeR]

It's really quite obvious which is "better", DD or PCM, when coming from the same source.

PCM beats DD in quality since it's virtually exactly like the original.

DD's only advantage is that it's compressed to a smaller file size for almost the same quality. But data is lost in the process. DD is what's called a "lossy" codec.

Now, there are some good encoders out there that convert to DD, but no matter how good they are, DD will never sound 100% like the original whether theoretically or whether you can actually hear the difference.

You can never make a photocopy better than the original, no matter how good the machine. That's DD.

Now, if only I can figure out, assuming the same amount of channels, why the heck does a disc include both PCM and DD tracks? I can understand why a disc would want to use PCM or DD with the advantages of both, but if the decision was to allocate the space for PCM, why even bother including DD? Kind of redundant don't you think?

[rarredoa]

Originally Posted by hitechiowa

not true dude, you can get full 5.1 pcm via 5.1 analog out on players like the Sony S300 and others, you are partially correct in the 7.1 part, 7.1 pcm needs to be handled by hdmi. not bashing you or saying your wrong just givin a fellow poster some info

Well I am not aware of any stand-alone blu-ray players with 7.1 analog outputs, with the exception of the new top-of-the-line Denon player, but adequate PC setups DO provide 7.1 analog outputs. There are several sound cards with this capability as well as some motherboards.