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Old 12-12-2017, 10:19 AM   #1
jeromec jeromec is offline
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Default IMAX scenes cropped in Dunkirk on iTunes

Hi.
I just purchased Dunkirk on iTunes.

Beautiful image. Dolby Vision available
(I haven't tested it, I just have an HDR10 TV).

...but IMAX scened are cropped, contrarily to the Blu-Ray releases.

Why on earth has someone decided to eeplace part of the picture with black bars, especially on the 4K versions that can only be watched on a 16/9 TV??



I was expecting an iTunes version of the Dark Knight trilogy, but now I fear they will also crop IMAX scenes (as they are in the current iTunes versions)
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:27 PM   #2
Buffmovie Buffmovie is offline
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Can anyone confirm if this is the case across all digital HD platforms? I was gonna purchase today, but not if the IMAX scenes are altered.
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Old 12-13-2017, 07:53 PM   #3
erlinmeyer erlinmeyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeromec View Post
Hi.
I just purchased Dunkirk on iTunes.

Beautiful image. Dolby Vision available
(I haven't tested it, I just have an HDR10 TV).

...but IMAX scened are cropped, contrarily to the Blu-Ray releases.

Why on earth has someone decided to eeplace part of the picture with black bars, especially on the 4K versions that can only be watched on a 16/9 TV??



I was expecting an iTunes version of the Dark Knight trilogy, but now I fear they will also crop IMAX scenes (as they are in the current iTunes versions)
Didn't know any Blu-Rays have been released. What country has released them?
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Old 12-13-2017, 08:19 PM   #4
dunnbluray dunnbluray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffmovie View Post
Can anyone confirm if this is the case across all digital HD platforms? I was gonna purchase today, but not if the IMAX scenes are altered.
I noticed it was cropped as well. I haven't tried it on Vudu. I will check it tonight.
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Old 12-13-2017, 08:23 PM   #5
mklar0427 mklar0427 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erlinmeyer View Post
Didn't know any Blu-Rays have been released. What country has released them?
Some review copies are out, so I've seen reference to this same phenomenon. On the 4K bluray, they go full-screen for the IMAX scenes.
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Old 12-13-2017, 08:45 PM   #6
erlinmeyer erlinmeyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mklar0427 View Post
Some review copies are out, so I've seen reference to this same phenomenon. On the 4K bluray, they go full-screen for the IMAX scenes.
So you see the original IMAX format on iTunes, but when the movie is released on 4K, then they expand the IMAX aspect to fill the screen rather than as originally shot. I still plan on getting it when it is released. Not the first movie that has some scenes in correct IMAX aspect and widescreen at other times.
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Old 12-13-2017, 11:42 PM   #7
manutd123 manutd123 is online now
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any news on the aspect ratio for Itunes 4K?
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:46 PM   #8
jeromec jeromec is offline
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I have checked all the digital copies I had thanks to my iTunes purchase
- iTunes, including 4K HDR (I guess the 4K Dolby Vision version is the same)
- Movies Anywhere
- Google Play
- Amazon Videos
IMAX scenes are cropped in all digital versions, in 2.21:1 format, whereas they are not on the Blu-Ray and UHD Blu-Ray

As for the Blu-ray, the back cover is very clear that IMA scenes (70% of the movie) occupy the whole TV screen (1.78:1 ratio). You can check that at the bottom ofthe UHD Blu-Ray back cover, on Amazon here: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1500_.jpg

It is a real shame, because, that big issue aside, from the few minutes I watched, the image and sound of the iTunes 4K HDR version are nothing short of glorious.

I tried to give feedback on the Warner Bros website, (for home video) ...but could only get an error when submitting it. I guess it makes their handling of customers suggestions way easier...

I'd love it if someone could help request proper digital versions of Dunkirk from WB (with the same aspect ratios as the Blu-Ray and 4K Blu-Ray).
Any suggestion deeply appreciated.

For now, I got a refund on my iTunes purchase, and feel very sad about it.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:00 PM   #9
jeromec jeromec is offline
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Here is an illustration of the digital version's cropping compared to the blu-ray, in an aerial scene.
In the digital versions, the upper and lower part of the picture are just black bars.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:26 PM   #10
agoofykindasuperman agoofykindasuperman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erlinmeyer View Post
So you see the original IMAX format on iTunes, but when the movie is released on 4K, then they expand the IMAX aspect to fill the screen rather than as originally shot. I still plan on getting it when it is released. Not the first movie that has some scenes in correct IMAX aspect and widescreen at other times.
Well, we see more of the image with the "IMAX" scenes on UHD and Blu-ray. But a true IMAX ratio is more square. If we were to see the entire IMAX ratio, we'd have black bars on the sides of our screen, not the top and bottom.
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:23 PM   #11
jeromec jeromec is offline
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The aspect ratios for how the scenes were shot and how they were shown in theaters are actually quite complex, as you can see on Dunkirk's IMDB detailed specs page.

But for TVs, and digital devices, the best aspect ratio is quite obviously the Blu-Ray's "full widescreen" 1.78:1 (16/9).
It is the only aspect ratio that uses the whole TV screen without black bars for IMAX scenes while having the mandatory black bars for scenes shot at 2.21:1.
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:35 PM   #12
megafan2000 megafan2000 is offline
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So if I'm understanding this right - Dunkirk will have shifting ratios like Nolan's other BDs The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises and Interstellar? I forget if Inception has shifting ratios.
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Old 12-14-2017, 04:56 PM   #13
jeromec jeromec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megafan2000 View Post
So if I'm understanding this right - Dunkirk will have shifting ratios like Nolan's other BDs The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises and Interstellar? I forget if Inception has shifting ratios.
Yes for Blu-Rays and UHD Blu-Rays (actually it's fixed 1.78:1 aspect ratio with black bars for non IMAX scenes).
No for digital releases, including iTunes 4K HDR/Dolby vision, which have a 2.21:1 aspect ratio.
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Old 12-14-2017, 07:14 PM   #14
mklar0427 mklar0427 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeromec View Post
Yes for Blu-Rays and UHD Blu-Rays (actually it's fixed 1.78:1 aspect ratio with black bars for non IMAX scenes).
No for digital releases, including iTunes 4K HDR/Dolby vision, which have a 2.21:1 aspect ratio.
Blu-ray movies generally have the black bars in the encoded video (they do a full 1920x1080), while iTunes and I presume Vudu/Amazon/Google/others generally leave that out of the digital versions since it can save a few bits. The various players and apps out there know how to display that and add the bars themselves.

The number of people who understand any of this is probably pretty small, particularly among those who buy the streaming versions instead of discs, so catering to us is likely not a top consideration with the streaming version.
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Old 12-14-2017, 08:16 PM   #15
mlabonte21 mlabonte21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mklar0427 View Post
Blu-ray movies generally have the black bars in the encoded video (they do a full 1920x1080), while iTunes and I presume Vudu/Amazon/Google/others generally leave that out of the digital versions since it can save a few bits. The various players and apps out there know how to display that and add the bars themselves.

The number of people who understand any of this is probably pretty small, particularly among those who buy the streaming versions instead of discs, so catering to us is likely not a top consideration with the streaming version.
That makes sense.

For example, when you do PiP of a letterboxed iTunes movie (in either iOS or MacOS) the black bars are omitted.

It’s very well possible that the black bars are not encoded and the aspect ratio cannot become ‘dynamic’.
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Old 12-14-2017, 08:22 PM   #16
NeoMaximuz NeoMaximuz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlabonte21 View Post
That makes sense.

For example, when you do PiP of a letterboxed iTunes movie (in either iOS or MacOS) the black bars are omitted.

Itís very well possible that the black bars are not encoded and the aspect ratio cannot become Ďdynamicí.
That's what I've noticed as well.

Not to mention that the only Nolan digital copy that actually switches to IMAX scenes is The Dark Knight. Rises and Interstellar remain in 2.35:1.
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Old 12-14-2017, 09:32 PM   #17
jeromec jeromec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoMaximuz View Post
That's what I've noticed as well.

Not to mention that the only Nolan digital copy that actually switches to IMAX scenes is The Dark Knight. Rises and Interstellar remain in 2.35:1.
I'd love to agree, but the HD version of The Dark Knight I purchased on iTunes is 1916*796, which is 2.40:1, and does not switch to 1.78:1 for the IMAX scenes.

Which is why I also purchased the Blu-Ray then. But the times of discs are no more.
(and I believe I purchased TDK at least 4 times: iTunes SD, iTunes HD, Blu-Ray, Dark Knight Trilogy Blu-Ray).

This was already an odd choice 10 years ago, and is really stupid today when the main sources of 4K HDR content are iTunes and not-so-legal sites, discs being AFAIK very marginal.
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Old 12-16-2017, 08:12 AM   #18
Krizzle1 Krizzle1 is offline
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The Dark Knight Trilogy will be getting the 4K treatment next week, maybe it'll have the IMAX scenes in them? maybe iTunes will upgrade our current purchases to 4K?

Edit - 4K is rolling out now...

Last edited by Krizzle1; 12-16-2017 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:02 PM   #19
XanderAE XanderAE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krizzle1 View Post
The Dark Knight Trilogy will be getting the 4K treatment next week, maybe it'll have the IMAX scenes in them? maybe iTunes will upgrade our current purchases to 4K?

Edit - 4K is rolling out now...
Is this in the U.K. storefront, as my U.K. purchase and storefront arenít saying 4K..?
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:40 PM   #20
jceperley jceperley is offline
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I may be in the minority on this, but I wanted the 2.2:1-only version. Never liked the idea of shifting aspect ratios, takes me out of the film as Iím watching it. Thatís what played most theatres (90%) played, so Iím good.
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