Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

My glass of STFU wasn't large enough. My apologies.

This conversation occurred late at night, so hopefully most of you were not here to be annoyed by it.

Again, follow your own moral compass.

I have been buying legitimate copies of my video entertainment for over three decades and I will back-up those titles that I deem need it. I started with backing up my rarest laserdiscs over 15 years ago and I will keep making back-ups as I see fit.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have been buying legitimate copies of my video entertainment for over three decades and I will back-up those titles that I deem need it. I started with backing up my rarest laserdiscs over 15 years ago and I will keep making back-ups as I see fit.

Just to be clear: I don't agree with the DMCA. I think that making back-ups for personal use should always be legal. But back-ups of content you no longer legally possess should not be legal.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

What makes the software in the court case I linked to previously different from the other software you are using?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/321_Studios_v._Metro_Goldwyn_Mayer_Studios,_Inc.

321 Studios had to stop selling its software because it broke copy protection and therefore violated the DMCA. Why do you think the other software is exempt from the same laws?

I rarely even bother to read Wikipedia articles anymore seeing as literally ANYONE, including ME, can edit them to say anything that they want. Citing Wikipedia has become like citing a Twitter post.

I don't know anything about that brand. Never heard of it. Never used it.

The one I primarily use has been available for over a decade and even has a new version for 2023 available now. How this brand has endured for so long if it is indeed illegal defies any explanation that I can offer.

People are using some kind of software to rip all of their discs to their home movie servers and often at the individual file level picking and choosing exactly what they want to keep or discard and that software is readily available, too.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The one I primarily use has been available for over a decade and even has a new version for 2023 available now. How this brand has endured for so long if it is indeed illegal defies any explanation that I can offer.

I'm trying to figure out what this software you bought from multiple reputable vendors is that breaks copy protection. Can I ask what vendors continue to sell the product (assuming they also sell other products and not just copy-protection breaking software)?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

I'm trying to figure out what this software you bought from multiple reputable vendors is that breaks copy protection. Can I ask what vendors continue to sell the product (assuming they also sell other products and not just copy-protection breaking software)?

It's too risky to say as this website does not like any discussion that can lead someone to buying such software. We both could be in trouble already for even discussing it in broad non-specific terms.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Vilya

It's too risky to say as this website does not like any discussion that can lead someone to buying such software. We both could be in trouble already for even discussing it in broad non-specific terms.

Is is available from major U.S. software stores like Amazon or Newegg or any major brick & mortar stores in the U.S.?

If not then it could easily get around U.S. laws and would be too hard to enforce its removal.

[Vilya]

I don't think that I have bought software in a brick and mortar store since Egghead's stores closed up.

[PenguinInfinity]

The only software I can think of that's available from major retailers is Nero Burning Rom and that doesn't break copy-protection but works in conjunction with other software that does. It must not be that...

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Wendell it really bothers you that I say my Streaming Quality is Fantastic even though I say IMO. I'm not even comparing it to your High End Dedicated Projector HT. I paid for the Best Buy Techs to do their Calibration, they asked me some questions and put up some stations and Movie Discs. Sony has a very good bright picture, and I feel I don't have to tweak it in anyway....I'm very Satisfied with the Picture Quality!

He only asked what your TV settings are and you steadfastly refuse to answer him. If you would just answer the actual question that was put to you it would make conversing with you much less, shall we say, bothersome?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by CV19

I recently went through some of my discs burnt back in 2004 when I bought my first Sony DVD recorder, and the discs I used were mostly Taiyo Yuden, Verbatim and Sony's. I have to say I haven't come across one yet that failed, and believe me, I have several hundreds of them. Of course, there are lots of them I haven't got round to watching yet, so time will tell.

[Show spoiler]Interestingly some years ago on an AV forum I used to look into now and again, there was a discussion on blank discs which came to the conclusion that Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim were the two top brands. However, they strongly advised to look out for Verbatim's that were made in either Japan or Taiwan. Verbatim also had production plants in China and India, and apparently those discs were to be avoided at all costs. Taiyo Yuden's were all made in Japan at the time.

Edit: After reading my post again, I should point out when I mentioned about having several hundreds of blank discs, these are all discs burnt between the years 2004 and about 2012. However my earliest discs from 2004 have so far all played perfectly.

I started making back-ups of laserdiscs and DVDs at about the same time. All of my burned discs from that period still work except for the ones that were burned onto Philips blank media. I still periodically re-burn discs just in case.

I have been using Verbatim almost exclusively for several years now and I have had no failures with their blank media. I have never paid any attention to where they were made, but I will going forward.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Wendell it really bothers you that I say my Streaming Quality is Fantastic even though I say IMO. I'm not even comparing it to your High End Dedicated Projector HT. I paid for the Best Buy Techs to do their Calibration, they asked me some questions and put up some stations and Movie Discs. Sony has a very good bright picture, and I feel I don't have to tweak it in anyway....I'm very Satisfied with the Picture Quality!

No, you are just deluding yourself. You apparently believe streaming looks great because of what you see on your TV. The only way to see some video aberrations is to have a TV or projector be as close as possible to a professional display monitor. I pointed this out to you several years ago. Since that time FilmMaker Mode has been introduced with the intent to make it much easier to make your TV be more like a monitor. Brian just posted JVC will release a firmware update that will have FilmMaker Mode for some of their projectors. Sony should do the same for their TV’s and projectors.

How you chose to view content is your business but to come to this site and proclaim something looks great will get you or anyone called out by others that truly knows the difference. There is a thread on this site called “What are your best looking UHD Blu-rays?” here. If you see the demo material on the Spears and Munsil UHD HDR Benchmark test disc on your TV with all the auto stuff turned off then you should realize just how spectacular an image could be.

[Wendell R. Breland]

For anyone that has considered the purchase of a Apple TV 4K, Amazon has the 64GB version for $140 (here) and the 32GB for $120. Paid $180 for my 64GB version in July 2021.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

No one but myself has access to my back-ups the same as with my discs. How do you figure otherwise?

if you keep both no, but if you sell the disk that is a different story, that is where we are no longer talking back-up but a second copy one that was kept and one that was sold, and you can definitely watch the copy while the person that bought the disk is watching the originally disk.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

if you keep both no, but if you sell the disk that is a different story, that is where we are no longer talking back-up but a second copy one that was kept and one that was sold, and you can definitely watch the copy while the person that bought the disk is watching the originally disk.

I don't sell my discs, but I have no problem with those that do. I may have said that already, though.

[Wendell R. Breland]

This is to put everyone on notice, IF I should ever purchase anything from you then you will convey any and all license, documents, hardware, manuals to my ownership. If I should purchase a riding mower from you then forget about thinking you can still use it mow your lawn.

[Show spoiler]own·er·ship

/ˈōnərˌSHip/
noun

the act, state, or right of possessing something.

"the ownership of land"

synonyms: possession, right of possession, holding, freehold, proprietorship, proprietary rights, title

Wonder how many land owners there are that may not know they do not own that crude oil under their property because someone else may own the mineral rights.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Laws only prohibit specified actions and they ascribe specific penalties for committing those actions. That which is not explicitly prohibited has always been presumed to be legal.

absolutely true except for one huge issue
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106

Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
(1)to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;
....

that is why 109 (aka first sales doctrine) even needs to exist in the first place. You don't need a law that says I can sell the tomatoes I grow in my garden or the table I bought at the store. You do need 109 to specify I am allowed to sell the BD I bought and did not back up because107 took that right away from everyone except the copy right holder.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

This is to put everyone on notice, IF I should ever purchase anything from you then you will convey any and all license, documents, hardware, manuals to my ownership. If I should purchase a riding mower from you then forget about thinking you can still use it mow your lawn.

[Show spoiler]own·er·ship


/ˈōnərˌSHip/
noun

the act, state, or right of possessing something.

"the ownership of land"



synonyms: possession, right of possession, holding, freehold, proprietorship, proprietary rights, title

Wonder how many land owners there are that may not know they do not own that crude oil under their property because someone else may own the mineral rights.

What if I 3D printed a back-up of the riding mower before selling you the original?

The license is not ours to transfer; it belongs to the copyright holder. It is granted to us by the act of purchasing and nothing revokes that license once granted.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

absolutely true except for one huge issue
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106



that is why 109 (aka first sales doctrine) even needs to exist in the first place. You don't need a law that says I can sell the tomatoes I grow in my garden or the table I bought at the store. You do need 109 to specify I am allowed to sell the BD I bought and did not back up because107 took that right away from everyone except the copy right holder.

You are allowed to sell the BD no matter what you did with it previously.

Making a back-up in no way infringes upon your rights under the First Sales Doctrine.

If making the back-up was illegal, that's another matter entirely and it has nothing to do with your rights under the First Sales Doctrine.

Your link makes it look like any average Joe who has ever ripped anything for any reason can look forward to being charged with copyright violations. Better build more prisons.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I own several such types of software all legally purchased from established and well known vendors right here in the U.S. Forum rules prohibit my being more specific as this type of software can be abused.

irrelevant, for example people can buy cars easily that does not give them the right to use it to plough into people or other similarly destructive choice.

that is exactly what Studios vs Sony said when when the studios brought them in front of the court. A beta machine could be used illigaly (I.e. make one or more pira5ted copies) but it can also be used for time shifting and time shifting does not contravene the law.

DMCA does not state the copyright owner is not allowed to brake/circumvent encryption if he needs to (was than we would not have home media), it states everyone else is not allowed to do it.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

irrelevant, for example people can buy cars easily that does not give them the right to use it to plough into people or other similarly destructive choice.

that is exactly what Studios vs Sony said when when the studios brought them in front of the court. A beta machine could be used illigaly (I.e. make one or more pira5ted copies) but it can also be used for time shifting and time shifting does not contravene the law.

DMCA does not state the copyright owner is not allowed to brake/circumvent encryption if he needs to (was than we would not have home media), it states everyone else is not allowed to do it.

Ripping software is legal. Software for ripping discs is what allows people to have their own movie servers. Those that buy and use this software to create their servers are not criminals no matter how much some people may want to portray them as such.

No one has said that the copyright owner is restricted in any way; I have no idea why you are stating the obvious in your last paragraph.