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Old 05-29-2019, 05:48 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Acer2010 View Post
I like the movie NETWORK. Right now, it is ranked #64 on the American Film Institute's List of the 100 Greatest American Movies of All Time (the 10th anniversary edition from 2007), and a great movie like this deserves a great remaster.

I think it would be cool if it was restored and re-mastered in 4K from the OCN (original camera negative). Plus, I think it would be cool that if NETWORK ever does get a 4K restoration, that Warner would allow Criterion to release the restoration on Blu-ray.

I think that would be something for every classic movie lover, including me.
64 is way way too low for this masterpiece.

Just watched this again the other day and was completely blown away. This film has so much to say, on human relationships, on corporate relationships, on mental illness, on trash culture, even on capitalism itself.

This has one of the all-time great scripts married with an incredible cast that all deliver A++ performances. The Beatrice Straight scene with William Holden gives me the chills every time.

Top 5 on my list.

As for the Blu-ray, C- video quality. Soft, grainy with likely incorrect colour tone. Badly needs a full restoration.
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Old 09-21-2019, 11:03 PM   #62
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Spoiler!!!

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Old 04-30-2020, 04:06 AM   #63
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Cropped to 1.78? WHYYYY?
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Old 04-30-2020, 05:05 AM   #64
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Cropped to 1.78? WHYYYY?
It's not cropped, actually. It was filmed for exhibition at 1.85, the 1.78 BD simply unmasks a tiny bit of image from the 1.33 negative at the top and bottom. It's a negligible difference, but nothing is lost.
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Old 05-05-2020, 09:27 PM   #65
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It's not cropped, actually. It was filmed for exhibition at 1.85, the 1.78 BD simply unmasks a tiny bit of image from the 1.33 negative at the top and bottom. It's a negligible difference, but nothing is lost.
Actually I was going off of the Blu-ray.com information, I received the disc today and it's 1.85.

I've submitted a correction.
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Old 05-05-2020, 09:41 PM   #66
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Actually I was going off of the Blu-ray.com information, I received the disc today and it's 1.85.

I've submitted a correction.
The US disc was never in 1.85.
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Old 05-05-2020, 09:51 PM   #67
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Actually I was going off of the Blu-ray.com information, I received the disc today and it's 1.85.

I've submitted a correction.
Warners doesn't do 1.85, they open up all 1.85 films to 1.78 to fill the frame.

The screenshots right here on the site show the disc is 1.78:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Netwo...3/#Screenshots

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Old 05-05-2020, 09:54 PM   #68
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I guess that's a good illustration of how negligible the difference truly is between 1.85 and 1.78.
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Old 05-05-2020, 10:29 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by James Luckard View Post
It's not cropped, actually. It was filmed for exhibition at 1.85, the 1.78 BD simply unmasks a tiny bit of image from the 1.33 negative at the top and bottom. It's a negligible difference, but nothing is lost.
I've never had a problem with that. The composition is pretty much the same. In some countries, the film would have been projected at 1.75 (UK) or even 1.66 (France) at the time and that margin was included in what "could be shown".

People who complain about 1.78 forget that back in the days of 4x3 it would have been shown at 1.33:1, showing information never intended for theatrical projection.
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Old 06-08-2020, 01:39 AM   #70
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Can anybody tell me if the Arrow UK release is much better PQ than the US Warner release?
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Old 06-08-2020, 01:59 AM   #71
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Can anybody tell me if the Arrow UK release is much better PQ than the US Warner release?
Itís worse, actually: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=5739&d2=5741&c=2338
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Old 06-08-2020, 04:04 AM   #72
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I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but what do you find superior in the Warners release? Color? Detail? I'm not that great at comparing caps, and it's not obvious to me that Warners is better. The color is clearly different...not sure which is more accurate. The Arrow looks like it could be filtered some. And I know bitrate alone doesn't tell us everything, but the Warners bitrate is appallingly low at 17.97 Mbps, while the Arrow is almost double that at 34.99 Mbps.
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Old 06-08-2020, 10:55 PM   #73
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I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but what do you find superior in the Warners release? Color? Detail? I'm not that great at comparing caps, and it's not obvious to me that Warners is better. The color is clearly different...not sure which is more accurate. The Arrow looks like it could be filtered some. And I know bitrate alone doesn't tell us everything, but the Warners bitrate is appallingly low at 17.97 Mbps, while the Arrow is almost double that at 34.99 Mbps.
The Arrow is an old MGM master (surprise!). Even with higher bitrate there's a lot less detail on it (captures 1 and 6 are horrible). Colour grading is too bright/faded (capture 7 should be evening and it looks like daylight!).

Worse thing is the framing. It's zoomed. Even if you added black bars to the Warner disc in order to get the proper 1.85:1 ratio, you'd still get more information than on the Arrow disc.
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Old 06-08-2020, 11:04 PM   #74
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I may have ****ed up.

Goddamnit. And I have the Arrow BD coming by the end of the week too. **** me, Gene. Of course, it's the one BD I have coming that I didn't do research on like the shit ton of ones that I ordered en masse.
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Old 06-08-2020, 11:12 PM   #75
edmoney edmoney is offline
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The Arrow is an old MGM master (surprise!). Even with higher bitrate there's a lot less detail on it (captures 1 and 6 are horrible). Colour grading is too bright/faded (capture 7 should be evening and it looks like daylight!).

Worse thing is the framing. It's zoomed. Even if you added black bars to the Warner disc in order to get the proper 1.85:1 ratio, you'd still get more information than on the Arrow disc.
Interesting. So if I understand correctly, there was an older MGM master, then a newer one used (created?) by WB for its 2011 release, yet Arrow (released in 2015) used the older MGM one?

EDIT: According to this site's review of the Arrow disc: "The release appears to have been sourced from the same older master that was used for the Warner/MGM release in the United States. I did some direct comparisons with my disc and the basic characteristics of the two releases are virtually identical." Not sure if the reviewer is correct in that regard, but clearly the grading and framing are different as you pointed out.

Last edited by edmoney; 06-08-2020 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 06-09-2020, 12:04 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Mr. Chaverria View Post
I may have ****ed up.

Goddamnit. And I have the Arrow BD coming by the end of the week too. **** me, Gene. Of course, it's the one BD I have coming that I didn't do research on like the shit ton of ones that I ordered en masse.
Usually, you donít have to question Arrow. There are just a few disappointing outliers, this being one of them, sadly.
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Old 06-09-2020, 02:14 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by edmoney View Post
Interesting. So if I understand correctly, there was an older MGM master, then a newer one used (created?) by WB for its 2011 release, yet Arrow (released in 2015) used the older MGM one?

EDIT: According to this site's review of the Arrow disc: "The release appears to have been sourced from the same older master that was used for the Warner/MGM release in the United States. I did some direct comparisons with my disc and the basic characteristics of the two releases are virtually identical." Not sure if the reviewer is correct in that regard, but clearly the grading and framing are different as you pointed out.
It is a very curious case. The two releases appear to originate from the same print but does that mean that it is indeed the same HD master?

The Warner BD uses the same master used for their second DVD release (2006), but it opens it up a bit. It is by far the release that shows most information from the original film frame. So yes, even that release was an old master (at least five years)

The Arrow BD (master provided by MGM) is zoomed in. The grain is resolved worse because of it. It is also more faded but its colours are more similar to the first Warner DVD (2000).

On closer inspection, it would appear Warner (who must have the original film elements) provided MGM with an ungraded master and MGM (who're dirt cheap) didn't do anything to improve upon it. The colours on the Warner seem natural in spite of being more saturated.

Regardless, the Warner disc gives a better video presentation in spite of the lower bitrate. I buy MGM titles on BD if I never got the DVD but I rarely upgrade them, as there's little to be gained. Arrow have themselves made better masters of MGM titles but in this case it'd have meant dealing with Warner as well in order to have access to the materials.
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Old 06-09-2020, 10:34 AM   #78
houseca houseca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Chaverria View Post
I may have ****ed up.

Goddamnit. And I have the Arrow BD coming by the end of the week too. **** me, Gene. Of course, it's the one BD I have coming that I didn't do research on like the shit ton of ones that I ordered en masse.
Don't open the Arrow when it comes in. Sell it on ebay. Buy a new copy of the Warner disc. Bull Moose has the lowest price even when you consider tax (they don't charge sales tax) $13.97.

https://www.bullmoose.com/p/6593347/...l-blu-ray-ws-r

We all make mistakes in buying the wrong version of a given title. I can't tell you how many bad decisions I have made. That's why I asked the question here. I have been burned by Arrow before (it's rare though). A masterpiece like this deserves the best quality disc.... so you need the Warner.
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