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Old 03-11-2021, 09:38 AM   #821
Steedeel Steedeel is offline
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Originally Posted by slimjean View Post
Excellent point.

I have noticed that when the personal attacks flow and the judgment whistle is blown it is often when the points are the most strong.

I was told to "put up or shut up" and instead of a response that actually looks at the points it is a fit of rage that when all else fails goes after spelling. If anything is sad that would be a prime example.
There are a lot of hypocrites for sure.
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Old 03-11-2021, 07:53 PM   #822
JWgrayhawk JWgrayhawk is online now
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Originally Posted by slimjean View Post
Minds are changed all the time. It may not happen immediately but it can and does happen.

The time and energy I spent is more than a belief, and it is more than one person.

People will often give "thanks" months later, I have seen people parrot things I have stated and me in kind.

I have had seeds planted with me thst will make me think about something even in my day to day life.

I come on this board to learn, and that can come with a heated debate that is more thsn a sarcastic judging tone or a scolding that one should stop because the words are more than a few paragraphs.
Yes, it can and does happen. All the time? I'm highly skeptical of that.

Can your "discussions" with opposite viewpoints who have shown they're sticking to their guns possibly educate others who view them? Granted. But again I doubt it happens often.

Is the time and effort spent worth it? That's up to each individual and obviously you believe it does in some cases where to me it seems frivolous and somewhat laughable. But my opinion is no more valid than yours. I wouldn't deny you the opportunity to pursue discussions as you see fit. Hopefully you wouldn't deny me the opportunity to be amused as I see fit. With the understanding I'm not feeling superior or laughing at you; just amused by what is just human nature.

Personally, I think we're all a bunch of idiots! And I've certainly wasted some valuable time in deep discussions on the internet that are rather ridiculous in hindsight.

Actually, frequenting fora such as this, seeking info on maximizing performance of my Home Theater experience is kind of ridiculous imo. I often spend more time reading about things than I do enjoying those very things. I often have to laugh at myself. But life is rather absurd and- as a friend of mine likes to remind me (and I can't disagree)- we're all just Bozos on a bus...
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Old 03-11-2021, 07:59 PM   #823
JWgrayhawk JWgrayhawk is online now
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Originally Posted by Steedeel View Post
Are you suggesting that oneís belief in better A/V quality is a misconception?
No- I never said or implied such a thing. The misconception comes in thinking you can change someone's beliefs about what is better quality- or any belief that is strongly held by arguing- no matter how logical it seems to you. Especially when one makes the same points over and over.

And debating predictions? Seems a waste of time to me- but that's just my opinion.

Many times reading forum posts I'm reminded of a line from The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway: "their deductions need applause." And I say that in full knowledge that I'm as guilty as any of this.
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Old 03-11-2021, 09:43 PM   #824
Steedeel Steedeel is offline
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No- I never said or implied such a thing. The misconception comes in thinking you can change someone's beliefs about what is better quality- or any belief that is strongly held by arguing- no matter how logical it seems to you. Especially when one makes the same points over and over.

And debating predictions? Seems a waste of time to me- but that's just my opinion.

Many times reading forum posts I'm reminded of a line from The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway: "their deductions need applause." And I say that in full knowledge that I'm as guilty as any of this.
Yeah, the forum is built on predictions. Especially the film section.
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Old 03-11-2021, 10:44 PM   #825
Lee A Stewart Lee A Stewart is offline
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Yeah, the forum is built on predictions. Especially the film section.
LOL - oh we hold our own on the PM vs Digital threads. As you know
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Old 03-11-2021, 11:24 PM   #826
Steedeel Steedeel is offline
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LOL - oh we hold our own on the PM vs Digital threads. As you know
You donít really hold it though, itís just digital dust slipping through your fingers.
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Old 03-11-2021, 11:28 PM   #827
Lee A Stewart Lee A Stewart is offline
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You donít really hold it though, itís just digital dust slipping through your fingers.
How nebulous of you.
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Old 03-12-2021, 11:07 AM   #828
slimjean slimjean is offline
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Yes, it can and does happen. All the time? I'm highly skeptical of that.
All the time. But just like the Lost explanation I posted, it happens at different times. (if you are a Lost show freak you know what I mean).

I do think "often" is relative. For me a few times is enough, but then we move on to point 2.

Quote:
And I've certainly wasted some valuable time in deep discussions on the internet that are rather ridiculous in hindsight.
Here is where it is going to seem strange.

I don't debate for anyone but myself. Changing someone's mind is never my end goal. Massaging my mind is what matters, and my benefit is never wasted time.

If someone's mind is changed, then that is a bonus, however my mind being changed is the ultimate goal because only then I have truly learned.

Example. Lets say I have a debate that lasts several pages. Many times over a viewpoint that I thought was lock stock cold, I will be forced to rethink hours after I have posted. Sometimes days. I would have never got to that point if I didn't take the subject and drag it out to the light, to be picked over, spread apart, and maybe ultimately devoured.

Sometimes with my/our (the other debater) after rigorous scrutiny my point still stands hard like the rock of Gibraltar. What was once maybe a passing thought with me turns into an important part of who I am re-affirmed perhaps from a subconscious level.

So here is where it is tricky. While people can certainly make their point that it is frivolous or pointless or a waste of time, it doesn't change the fact that it is wrong on one solid aspect. No one can determine what my "wasted time" is for me. When someone starts clearly trolling, have I bowed out, absolutely. But that wasn't wasted time to me, because it gave me education on what to spot as early as possible. It didn't change my point one bit only the fact that it turned into a circular loop. But how did I really know what was the limit for me without first testing it?

Then again even when it came down to hearing an insult and the anger I have felt, it too also had a purpose. I cannot tell you enough how much the significance of a troll gave me some very much needed distraction in my personal life, if only to give a place marker to what is truly important which isn't necessarily more time with the family.

Quote:
Actually, frequenting fora such as this, seeking info on maximizing performance of my Home Theater experience is kind of ridiculous imo. I often spend more time reading about things than I do enjoying those very things. I often have to laugh at myself. But life is rather absurd and- as a friend of mine likes to remind me (and I can't disagree)- we're all just Bozos on a bus...
Again, this is where we differ.

I will put it in terms of mathematics/education. When people have often said to me that I have wasted my experience because I am in a job that is not in my exact degree earned, I say just like with math, you only use about 10% of what you learned on any given job, but which part is that 10%?

Go to enough jobs, and that percentage seems to stretch based on your experience.

The time spent interacting with others gives me application to what I own and do. Believe it or not, it makes that moment where I sit down and watch a movie all the more important.

I am a Kubrick fan for a million reasons, but one of them is because I can relate to his detail. That dude would take a thousand pictures of decorative sign posts, argue the merits of each one and then put them on a set, and then not even have it in the shot. When asked why he does things like that it was stated that the crew knows they are there and that is what enhances the performance (in so many words).

I am Kubrick of my life movie and I will get my critics, I know what is important and what is not. Heck even with this post that is more for me than you.

Bozos on a bus. Perhaps, but I like clowns, and the bus has a long ride to that destination. Best recognize our own and interact. Because as I heard from Elvis "you only pass through this life once jack, and you don't come back for an encore" (cue the disagreement to this theory)
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Old 03-12-2021, 08:32 PM   #829
JWgrayhawk JWgrayhawk is online now
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Originally Posted by slimjean View Post
All the time. But just like the Lost explanation I posted, it happens at different times. (if you are a Lost show freak you know what I mean).

I do think "often" is relative. For me a few times is enough, but then we move on to point 2.



Here is where it is going to seem strange.

I don't debate for anyone but myself. Changing someone's mind is never my end goal. Massaging my mind is what matters, and my benefit is never wasted time.

If someone's mind is changed, then that is a bonus, however my mind being changed is the ultimate goal because only then I have truly learned.

Example. Lets say I have a debate that lasts several pages. Many times over a viewpoint that I thought was lock stock cold, I will be forced to rethink hours after I have posted. Sometimes days. I would have never got to that point if I didn't take the subject and drag it out to the light, to be picked over, spread apart, and maybe ultimately devoured.

Sometimes with my/our (the other debater) after rigorous scrutiny my point still stands hard like the rock of Gibraltar. What was once maybe a passing thought with me turns into an important part of who I am re-affirmed perhaps from a subconscious level.

So here is where it is tricky. While people can certainly make their point that it is frivolous or pointless or a waste of time, it doesn't change the fact that it is wrong on one solid aspect. No one can determine what my "wasted time" is for me. When someone starts clearly trolling, have I bowed out, absolutely. But that wasn't wasted time to me, because it gave me education on what to spot as early as possible. It didn't change my point one bit only the fact that it turned into a circular loop. But how did I really know what was the limit for me without first testing it?

Then again even when it came down to hearing an insult and the anger I have felt, it too also had a purpose. I cannot tell you enough how much the significance of a troll gave me some very much needed distraction in my personal life, if only to give a place marker to what is truly important which isn't necessarily more time with the family.



Again, this is where we differ.

I will put it in terms of mathematics/education. When people have often said to me that I have wasted my experience because I am in a job that is not in my exact degree earned, I say just like with math, you only use about 10% of what you learned on any given job, but which part is that 10%?

Go to enough jobs, and that percentage seems to stretch based on your experience.

The time spent interacting with others gives me application to what I own and do. Believe it or not, it makes that moment where I sit down and watch a movie all the more important.

I am a Kubrick fan for a million reasons, but one of them is because I can relate to his detail. That dude would take a thousand pictures of decorative sign posts, argue the merits of each one and then put them on a set, and then not even have it in the shot. When asked why he does things like that it was stated that the crew knows they are there and that is what enhances the performance (in so many words).

I am Kubrick of my life movie and I will get my critics, I know what is important and what is not. Heck even with this post that is more for me than you.

Bozos on a bus. Perhaps, but I like clowns, and the bus has a long ride to that destination. Best recognize our own and interact. Because as I heard from Elvis "you only pass through this life once jack, and you don't come back for an encore" (cue the disagreement to this theory)
I respect what you've written and don't necessarily disagree; a lot of it is where we choose to draw the lines, which is very personal and not subject to right/wrong, good/bad etc.

For me, what makes me leery of the time I spend discussing online is my frustration with and regret over the modern proclivity to relate to others through technology as opposed to in-person. It's not an either/or, there is a healthy balance, but I believe personally I'm healthier when my online connections are minimal and my in-person are maximal.

Of course, the pandemic has altered abilities to relate in-person. But it also seems as humans we have been headed in an unhealthy direction with regards to this for quite some time anyway. And again, I'm not excepting myself from this. It's probably an inevitable result of technology. It's a sad state of affairs imo, but I have to accept the reality of it. But maybe I should just get out more...

PS I loved Lost, but just watched it the one time; not as it aired, but binge-watching after I bought the series on Blu. Far from a freak, but I believe I take your meaning. But I really do want to re-watch. But I can never get done with my backlog of unwatched Blu's; hard to take the time to re-watch something that will require a big time investment.
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Old 03-12-2021, 09:11 PM   #830
slimjean slimjean is offline
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Originally Posted by JWgrayhawk View Post
For me, what makes me leery of the time I spend discussing online is my frustration with and regret over the modern proclivity to relate to others through technology as opposed to in-person.
Maybe it is part of being a latchkey kid, or my experience with TV shows growing up where it was the babysitter (which is why for the most part I hate them) that turned into my obsession with movies as an adult.

I do feel that I actually think I get closer to peeling back people's minds by not having it be personal. You can say and do what you want while keeping exact names and locations out of the debates.

For the most part, no one knows who you are, nor I them. So there is a certain kind of honesty that you don't get in person because of social barriers.

Take for instance today. I run into this waitress. Just hot hot hot. Yet I am married, so that isn't cool. I felt a connection for sure, but the obvious settings make it impossible to connect in the same way without being obvious. She was a talker (perhaps wanting tips), but she without question could at least see I was appreciating her and she wasn't all that far from my age. Yet if we met online perhaps it would be more, perhaps less. I don't know, but can you imagine if you get both that deep intellect and the physical connection at the same time? You connect through the mind, and then you actually meet. Well that is what happened to me and my wife. After at least a year of chatting, messaging, you name it, the connection was that much stronger. I cannot imagine limiting that. I see nothing unhealthy about that and I think the limit is in the imagination. You can learn so much with just a few key words typed.

True... meanings are often lost with typed words...sarcasm may come off wrong...true authenticity may come off as a joke or arrogant, and you aren't getting a look, touch, etc... but then again those things can also limit the intellectual connection as well! I guess you gotta pick your poison.

Quote:
PS I loved Lost, but just watched it the one time; not as it aired, but binge-watching after I bought the series on Blu. Far from a freak, but I believe I take your meaning. But I really do want to re-watch. But I can never get done with my backlog of unwatched Blu's; hard to take the time to re-watch something that will require a big time investment.
I hear ya on that. Not enough time, but then to feel this kind of connection right now makes it all the more when someone sees as you do. With all the comments about Lost lately, I will not be ignoring the great comments I got to help hone my experience.

Kinda like watching Rocky and immediately going to youtube comments. So many observations that I missed about the ending that I never really thought about for all the years and times I have watched that masterpiece. Makes me want to watch it again (if it wasn't for mono low quality 192 kb soundtrack and the 5.1 surround is absolutely awful!!)

One person was talking about how Adrian closed her eyes then opens them as he gets up. Now I always remembered her praying and thinking he was already up so what gives?

Then as a member describes it, with that look of worry that turns into this almost cold steel stare it is like she wills Rocky. He was practically dead, but to crack Apollos ribs in the next moment was like they were an absolute tandem with each other. I would have never thought of it that way without the comments and I know for a fact if people online weren't picking out the scenes this would never come up in a discussion... like ever. In person it is always "yeah great movie".

I have appreciated your comments. It is a breath of fresh air. I agree when it dissolves to bickering it becomes somewhat unhealthy. Eh, I'll take that too though for reasons I stated.
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Old 03-12-2021, 09:36 PM   #831
JWgrayhawk JWgrayhawk is online now
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Originally Posted by slimjean View Post
Maybe it is part of being a latchkey kid, or my experience with TV shows growing up where it was the babysitter (which is why for the most part I hate them) that turned into my obsession with movies as an adult.

I do feel that I actually think I get closer to peeling back people's minds by not having it be personal. You can say and do what you want while keeping exact names and locations out of the debates.

For the most part, no one knows who you are, nor I them. So there is a certain kind of honesty that you don't get in person because of social barriers.

Take for instance today. I run into this waitress. Just hot hot hot. Yet I am married, so that isn't cool. I felt a connection for sure, but the obvious settings make it impossible to connect in the same way without being obvious. She was a talker (perhaps wanting tips), but she without question could at least see I was appreciating her and she wasn't all that far from my age. Yet if we met online perhaps it would be more, perhaps less. I don't know, but can you imagine if you get both that deep intellect and the physical connection at the same time? You connect through the mind, and then you actually meet. Well that is what happened to me and my wife. After at least a year of chatting, messaging, you name it, the connection was that much stronger. I cannot imagine limiting that. I see nothing unhealthy about that and I think the limit is in the imagination. You can learn so much with just a few key words typed.

True... meanings are often lost with typed words...sarcasm may come off wrong...true authenticity may come off as a joke or arrogant, and you aren't getting a look, touch, etc... but then again those things can also limit the intellectual connection as well! I guess you gotta pick your poison.



I hear ya on that. Not enough time, but then to feel this kind of connection right now makes it all the more when someone sees as you do. With all the comments about Lost lately, I will not be ignoring the great comments I got to help hone my experience.

Kinda like watching Rocky and immediately going to youtube comments. So many observations that I missed about the ending that I never really thought about for all the years and times I have watched that masterpiece. Makes me want to watch it again (if it wasn't for mono low quality 192 kb soundtrack and the 5.1 surround is absolutely awful!!)

One person was talking about how Adrian closed her eyes then opens them as he gets up. Now I always remembered her praying and thinking he was already up so what gives?

Then as a member describes it, with that look of worry that turns into this almost cold steel stare it is like she wills Rocky. He was practically dead, but to crack Apollos ribs in the next moment was like they were an absolute tandem with each other. I would have never thought of it that way without the comments and I know for a fact if people online weren't picking out the scenes this would never come up in a discussion... like ever. In person it is always "yeah great movie".

I have appreciated your comments. It is a breath of fresh air. I agree when it dissolves to bickering it becomes somewhat unhealthy. Eh, I'll take that too though for reasons I stated.
Again, I didn't say online connection is unhealthy per se; to me, it's just a question of balance. And again that's a personal choice where the line is drawn. For me, I've often been out of balance with not enough IRL connection. And I do believe this is a common phenomena in our modern society.

Then again, if I met my partner online my idea of balance might skew significantly towards more online. But I've had a lot more negative experiences with females I've met online than positive- and never met THE ONE. But that's just as likely saying something about me as it is about online connections...

I will say that what you pointed out as a positive can also be a negative- and it's played out in some of my experiences going from online to IRL. That anonymity that can make for more honest connections due to lack of social barriers can also lead to dishonesty due to that very anonymity. People often wear masks, but those masks can be much more deeper as well as hard to spot and/or penetrate when you aren't in person.

And I've enjoyed our exchanges as well. And the result of our off-topic excursion has been to silence the arguing- possibly killing the thread as well! Which, as OP, I have no problem with. As I said, my question was answered early on- and was really just validation of what I initially thought. And really was a pretty insignificant question in the grand scheme of things to begin with...

G'day Matey!
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Old 03-12-2021, 11:03 PM   #832
slimjean slimjean is offline
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People often wear masks, but those masks can be much more deeper as well as hard to spot and/or penetrate when you aren't in person.
As we all know the same is true for in person.

Here is the thing it is like Sean Connery says about the Eliot Ness in the Unctouchables Treasurer Officer title. Who would say they were that...that was not?

I usually can smell BS pretty good over time. Some can carry on a lie for a long period. This is true. Always exceptions. Most don't care that much. Deception is a big thing with me and most truly honest people don't pitch a fit when you catch a contradiction.

As for women I got very lucky. It also was instinct and her effort too. It still took a long time to trust. Many long nights and being frank and tough when stuff wasn't right. Honesty about exactly what you feel get results in the end. At least that is what I think.

It is a risk but if you have parameters set of what you will put up with, and what you won't I find you can also be open to what they set. No lying and it is all on the table.

Dates often give mixed signals and immediate false results like speed chess. You can be good at it, but that isn't real chess to me.

Idk a lot of this discussion can give clarity to people that are open to change in thoughts.

To get back on topic a little.
Look at Stewart and the bottom line industry wealth only thoughts or the belief that BDXL can only be recorded on and not played. It is ok to start ignorant but if one chooses to stay that way it is completely on them.
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