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Old 08-05-2017, 06:39 PM   #41
dunnbluray dunnbluray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyIII View Post
VuDu UHD could never stand a chance vs UHD disc. You are comparing a 15-20 bitrate source to a 60-100 bitrate source

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Iím not sure this is accurate.

I think UHD on Vudu is near 25 for the bitrate. 4k blurays vary but it seems to average between 30 and 40 when viewing the stats.

If someone has more accurate information, please post.
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Old 08-06-2017, 01:10 AM   #42
alchav21 alchav21 is offline
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I'm glad you're happy with your Vizio, I went with a 65" Sony UHD TV and it's fantastic to access all my Streaming Providers with the Networking Apps. I tend to keep my TV's a long time, my last one was a 62" DLP Mitsubishi HDTV that I had for about 15 years. You have to set your priorities, and for the price your Vizio is a good UHD TV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zu Nim View Post
But Sony doesn't support Vudu in UHD, right? I sure hope you don't have to buy... an external box.
I'm not worried, just like you guys that are waiting for Apple TV to support UHD, I'm sure Vudu will come around with their UHD on Vudu. I can watch 4K on Sony Ultra and Amazon. I think my wait will come sooner than your Apple TV!
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Old 08-06-2017, 01:20 AM   #43
alchav21 alchav21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyIII View Post
VuDu UHD could never stand a chance vs UHD disc. You are comparing a 15-20 bitrate source to a 60-100 bitrate source
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunnbluray View Post
Iím not sure this is accurate.

I think UHD on Vudu is near 25 for the bitrate. 4k blurays vary but it seems to average between 30 and 40 when viewing the stats.

If someone has more accurate information, please post.
Yea, these Disc Lovers like to through around all these BitRates, but now it's all about Bandwidth and Access. If you have enough Bandwidth the BitRate Quality is right up there with Disc now.
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Old 08-06-2017, 01:47 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alchav21 View Post
Yea, these Disc Lovers like to through around all these BitRates, but now it's all about Bandwidth and Access. If you have enough Bandwidth the BitRate Quality is right up there with Disc now.
Wrong. The streaming bit rate you get on a UHD movie (or HDx or SD) will be the same no matter what bandwidth you have. Of course, you must have enough bandwidth to stream in UHD to begin with.

UHD bit rates, on average, are about 3x higher on disc than UHD streaming bit rates.
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Old 08-06-2017, 02:26 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Adam_ME View Post
I compared Kong: Skull Island on UHD disc and VUDU UHD the other day and I did find the VUDU transfer with DV to be superior. I'm watching on a LG OLED C6P so it gets tricky with the calibration since DV and HDR each have their own settings on that TV, but I've tried to get them as uniform as possible.

I hope studios start offering DV on all their discs soon, cuz otherwise I may find more examples where the DV streaming version is preferable to the HDR disc version.
I too have a C6 and UHD discs trump over high compressed VuDu Dolby Vision.
Let's talk again once we have Dolby Vision discs available

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Old 08-06-2017, 02:29 AM   #46
RockyIII RockyIII is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alchav21 View Post
Yea, these Disc Lovers like to through around all these BitRates, but now it's all about Bandwidth and Access. If you have enough Bandwidth the BitRate Quality is right up there with Disc now.
Incorrect. You can have 30mb or 80mb at your disposal, but if this or that title is streaming at 15 bitrates your devices will still playback at content at 15 bitrates

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Old 08-06-2017, 04:54 AM   #47
alchav21 alchav21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alchav21 View Post
Yea, these Disc Lovers like to through around all these BitRates, but now it's all about Bandwidth and Access. If you have enough Bandwidth the BitRate Quality is right up there with Disc now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyIII View Post
Incorrect. You can have 30mb or 80mb at your disposal, but if this or that title is streaming at 15 bitrates your devices will still playback at content at 15 bitrates
So don't you think these Providers that Stream UHD at BitRates 25+Mbps can Stream Digital HD at higher BitRates? I say they can and they are, because it looks Great on my Sony UHD TV!
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Old 08-06-2017, 05:08 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by alchav21 View Post
I'm not worried, just like you guys that are waiting for Apple TV to support UHD, I'm sure Vudu will come around with their UHD on Vudu. I can watch 4K on Sony Ultra and Amazon. I think my wait will come sooner than your Apple TV!
Quote:
Originally Posted by alchav21 View Post
So don't you think these Providers that Stream UHD at BitRates 25+Mbps can Stream Digital HD at higher BitRates? I say they can and they are, because it looks Great on my Sony UHD TV!
It can still look great without being the same bitrate. With newer codecs and better encodes, something with a lower bitrate can still look great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alchav21 View Post
I'm not worried, just like you guys that are waiting for Apple TV to support UHD, I'm sure Vudu will come around with their UHD on Vudu. I can watch 4K on Sony Ultra and Amazon. I think my wait will come sooner than your Apple TV!
Apple TV is almost 100% guaranteed to add UHD support on its latest model this year. You seem pretty confident that you'll have it too on your TV's VUDU app.

We'll see who wins this race.

Granted, if you win, it costs you nothing. If we win, it'll cost the price of a new Apple TV. Plus, even when the new Apple TV supports UHD, that doesn't guarantee that the VUDU app will offer UHD the minute it launches on the Apple TV. If VUDU was smart, they'd offer UHD IMO, but maybe they have some sort of exclusivity agreement with Vizio and Roku or something.

It's funny, the way you go on about your UHD TV and VUDU, it seemed like you were watching VUDU in UHD already. Apparently you've only seen it in HDX. Admittedly, HD upconverted to UHD looks great too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alchav21 View Post
Yea, these Disc Lovers like to [throw] around all these BitRates, but now it's all about Bandwidth and Access. If you have enough Bandwidth the BitRate Quality is right up there with Disc now.
You admitted the other day that you use codes from combo packs. Guess what? You're relying on the existence of codes to build your digital library. You should probably call others disc lovers a little less. You may not be a disc lover, but you're a disc liker. Maybe a disc exploiter. There's nothing wrong with redeeming codes, but that does prove your dependence on physical media for you to sell afterwards or whatnot. You probably shouldn't judge others who support physical media.

You've also conceded that digital bitrates don't match physical media, but that it could someday. Why do you backpedal on these matters? You don't need to overstate the quality of digital. Digital has come a long, long way, but physical media still offers the best quality. You can still prefer digital without pretending it's equal to physical media. I share your optimism that someday it will be equal/superior to physical, but that's still in the future.

My TV lacks HDR/Dolby Vision, so when I watch VUDU in UHD, it looks good, but I know it could look better. In my case, that's not a fault of VUDU or digital, but it is the fault of my equipment. I got my UHD TV in 2014, and had no idea how important HDR would be. I figured since it was UHD and 3D, it was all I needed for the foreseeable future (plus there was something Samsung made called the Evolution Kit, but they discontinued those attachments). Nope. Seems that TVs are becoming more like smartphones. If you want to keep up with technology, we need to upgrade to new equipment much more than before. Or I can just be happy with my UHD/3D TV. I'm trying to be content, but it's not always easy when you hear how great HDR is.
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Old 08-06-2017, 11:39 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by alchav21 View Post
So don't you think these Providers that Stream UHD at BitRates 25+Mbps can Stream Digital HD at higher BitRates? I say they can and they are, because it looks Great on my Sony UHD TV!
Ignorance is bliss indeed

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Old 08-06-2017, 12:14 PM   #50
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I have typically found that when comparing screen shots of Vudu to Blu-ray, they look almost identical. However, when they are both in motion, the difference is obvious and Blu-ray almost always wins. There is something that is just slightly off with the streaming. And for the record, I have more Vudu movies then I do Blu-rays.

UHD to HDX is such a small incremental increase that our eyes can barely see the difference.

http://referencehometheater.com/2013...4k-calculator/
Quote:
Many reviewers have tried to compare 4K to 1080p to see if they notice a difference. David Katzmaier pulled in a panel and showed them the same content on 4K streaming from Netflix and 1080p Blu-ray and none of the people could pick out the 4K display. At the same time, HDTVTest did a similar test using 1080p compared to 4K, but they used their own custom content instead of streaming content. In their testing people do notice the difference from a reasonable distance, though unless you are shooting you own 4K content you can't test this yourself.

I talked to other reviewers who tested projectors, being able to instantly switch between a Sony 4K projector and a JVC X700R on a 120" screen. They could barely notice the difference with the 4K resolution using content directly from a RED 4K camera. Even when they did notice, they preferred the JVC image because it had better blacks and a better contrast ratio, and the eye notices that more than resolution. With any display, resolution is only a single factor in how good a display looks. Knowing how much you might see that increased resolution can help you decide what TV will best work for you.
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Old 08-06-2017, 01:23 PM   #51
bruceames bruceames is offline
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Originally Posted by WestMan View Post
.

UHD to HDX is such a small incremental increase that our eyes can barely see the difference.

http://referencehometheater.com/2013...4k-calculator/
Yes that's true when the only upgrade to UHD is resolution.

But UHD these days is much more than a simple increase in resolution. By far the biggest perceptible differences are in the higher dynamic range (HDR), the wider color gamut and the higher color bit depth.

When viewing a movie that takes advantage of these enhancements, on a TV that is fully capable of displaying them, the difference can be quite dramatic.
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Old 08-06-2017, 02:53 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
Yes that's true when the only upgrade to UHD is resolution.

But UHD these days is much more than a simple increase in resolution. By far the biggest perceptible differences are in the higher dynamic range (HDR), the wider color gamut and the higher color bit depth.

When viewing a movie that takes advantage of these enhancements, on a TV that is fully capable of displaying them, the difference can be quite dramatic.
HDR is slightly more noticeable, but not much.

With each iteration of technology, the difference in picture quality is becoming smaller and smaller. From VHS to DVD to Blu-ray to 4K.... there is certainly the law of diminishing returns going on.

I have a 65" television and sit about 10 feet away from the screen. I'm not even close enough to see the full benefits of 1080p. If I got a bigger screen in my room, I would have to turn my neck too much to take in everything on the screen.

I notice no difference between UHD and HDX on Vudu.

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Old 08-06-2017, 06:02 PM   #53
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I'm not sure about bit rates and all that, but I will say to my eyes, something like GLOW or OZARK (HDR and 4K on netflix respectively) looks better to my eyes than say my 4K disc of Unforgiven.
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Old 08-06-2017, 06:48 PM   #54
bruceames bruceames is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestMan View Post
HDR is slightly more noticeable, but not much.


I notice no difference between UHD and HDX on Vudu.
Well you will when you get an HDR TV, or at least one good enough to do HDR justice. A lot depends on the title as well. The newer ones are made with HDR in mind and so the difference will be larger.

As an example of how much HDR can enhance the viewing experience over 1080p HDx, read this preview of the upcoming Guardians of the Galaxy movie. It compares the difference between the 1080p Blu and the UHD BD, but I imagine the difference between the HDx and UHD Vudu HDR will be similar.

[Show spoiler]
Quote:
GUARDIANS OF THE 4K ULTRA HD BLU-RAY

While we didn't get a full home cinema experience with surround sound -- so I can't tell you anything about the home theatre Dolby Atmos mix (though I have high hopes because it sounded pretty dang great at the premiere) -- we did do a side-by-side demo comparing the HDR/WCG 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray and the SDR/Rec.709 Blu-ray using two LG G7 OLED 4K displays (with all noise reduction and motion enhancements flipped OFF) and two Oppo UDP-203 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray players in a darkened conference room.

During our demo, we started (I think) around Chapter 2 where the Guardians are in the blue and gold Sovereign throne room and watched all the way to the scene where Sylvester Stallone and The Ravagers confront Yondu at the neon-covered city of ill-repute. (BTW, I know these places all have specific names, but I forgot them and haven't been able to find them online, so my apologies for the lack of specificity).

Make no mistake, the 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray DESTROYS the Blu-ray in every possible way (even when said Blu-ray is up-rezzed by what's probably the BEST 4K player on the market on arguably the BEST 4K display available today).

I'm not kidding or exaggerating.

No hyperbole whatsoever.

The difference is visible and dramatic.

I'll still need to check out the VUDU version and watch the whole disc to be certain, but unless there are serious flaws hiding somewhere, Guardians Vol. 2 is probably going to set a new standard as the best, demo-worthy 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray the young format has ever seen.

How so? I'm glad you asked.

First, we need to talk about highlight details.

From chandeliers to lights reflecting off spaceship windows to suns blazing in cloudy skies to fiery explosions, GOTGV2 features a ton of in-frame bright objects. On the Blu-ray, these bright spots are hazy and monolithic and, pretty much, one tone of white or off white. On the 4K Blu-ray with HDR, the light sources themselves are smaller and more precise, especially during shots of the sun (or a star, I suppose, since it's not Earth, but I digress). You can see the glowing orb along with clouds and window frames around them. You can see the fine details of the billowing clouds. You can see Mantis' antennae as she emerges from Ego's ship (where in the Blu-ray they vanish). In other words, these details make the Guardians universe dramatically more realistic and realized.

Next, let's talk sharpness.

Many 4K Blu-rays are, admittedly, not noticeably sharper than up-rezzed Blu-rays. Most of this comes down to source materials and, while I don't know the specifics of the Guardians Vol. 2 post-process (I believe it's was finished in 4K, but don't quote me on this), again the differences are clear as can be. The Blu-ray is sharp-ish as presented on the 2017 LG OLED. Details are defined. Locations are well rendered. You can see the textures and fabrics and sets, but they're never wholly CRISP. In side-by-side comparisons, the Blu-ray looks evvvvvvvver-so-slightly out of focus and washed out.

The 4K Blu-ray, by comparison, is razor sharp to the point where you can see wrinkles in Nebula and Gamora's makeup, gold flake in the Sovereign citizens' skin, individual tree branches as they're crash landing on the planet with the green forests, each whisker in Kurt Russel's beard, and the paint on the set walls. To be fair, many folks won't appreciate these fine details, but, again, they add to the realness of the world and picky perfection-demanding viewers are going to love peeping pixels because it's all there.

Moving on to black levels

Sometimes, especially with OLEDs, HDR10 encoded movies with really dark scenes crush shadow details. There are ways around this and the 2017 OLEDs are brighter than the 2016 model we reviewed HERE, but still, it's a concern given the way HDR10's static metadata is encoded. I'm happy to report, even in darker scenes like the space battle and the interior of the Guardians' ship and the early-evening scene with Yondu, there was no crushing or lost details. This is a very good HDR transfer even though it lacks dynamic metadata. Black levels are, as they tend to be with OLEDs, perfect.

Lastly, let's talk color volume.

Much like my press events at Fox where we demoed The Revenant and Deadpool, doing side-by-side comparisons offers a far quicker and more perfect demonstration of how 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray bests Blu-ray because A-to-B-to-A-to-B testing allows just enough time to pass for one's memories to cloud.

Seeing the same images moving in (semi) sync allows your eyes to linger over both frames at once and it's here you realize that, while Guardians doesn't have a dramatically different color palette like The Revenant, Vol. 2 boasts a much more vibrant and richer color palette that is so gorgeous, you can imagine this very disc and demo selling HDR capable TVs to the masses.

Like Pixar and other CGI animations, the colors in this movie are perfect for showing off your display. From the blue Sovereign palace and Nebula's skin to the green forests and Gamora's skin to the Neon-adorned buildings of the shady world where Yondu meets up with the other Ravagers who all hate his guts. In every single scene, the 4K Blu-ray's BOLD colors pop and catch your eye, even in those brighter areas mentioned above -- where the Blu-ray pushes into white when it runs out of a certain color in Rec.709, this P3 color space allows for blue skies and orange flames and red laser blasts, which all adds to the overall sharpness and vibrancy.


http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...d-bluray/39671
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:28 PM   #55
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I notice a huge difference between HDX and UHD (Dolby Vision) on VuDu. Especially in the average price per title[emoji41]

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Old 08-13-2017, 10:31 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by RockyIII View Post
I notice a huge difference between HDX and UHD (Dolby Vision) on VuDu. Especially in the average price per title[emoji41]
Yeah, I hope VUDU and/or iTunes (once they go 4K) get more aggressive with sales on 4K titles. It's still HDX that gets the love.
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:21 PM   #57
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As an avid fan of Dolby Vision, I've bought about 20 or so of the UHD titles on Vudu.

Streaming content still has a long way to go. Let's just put it that way.

A title like 'Edge of Tomorrow', is filled with so many noisy compression artifacts during the last action sequence, that I actually regret buying that title.

Titles like 'John Wick 2' and 'Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2', while they do indeed look good in Dolby Vision, also have moments of macroblocking and pixelation artifacts. Specifically, during the final action sequence in JW2, when he's searching for Santino through the revolving door mirrors, you see some major macroblocking going on in both his hair and forehead.

In GOTG V2, when that blue blob thing comes up from beneath the Dairy Queen, you can see tons of compression artifacts filling out the frame.

Honestly, it's not even worth buying these titles unless you're just redeeming codes for the convenience of streaming--or at least getting a glimpse of what DV has to offer.

But, as fat as UHD content goes in terms of streaming; Netflix is the best as far as consistent video quality goes right now.
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Old 08-21-2017, 09:17 PM   #58
RockyIII RockyIII is offline
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Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan View Post
As an avid fan of Dolby Vision, I've bought about 20 or so of the UHD titles on Vudu.

Streaming content still has a long way to go. Let's just put it that way.

A title like 'Edge of Tomorrow', is filled with so many noisy compression artifacts during the last action sequence, that I actually regret buying that title.

Titles like 'John Wick 2' and 'Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2', while they do indeed look good in Dolby Vision, also have moments of macroblocking and pixelation artifacts. Specifically, during the final action sequence in JW2, when he's searching for Santino through the revolving door mirrors, you see some major macroblocking going on in both his hair and forehead.

In GOTG V2, when that blue blob thing comes up from beneath the Dairy Queen, you can see tons of compression artifacts filling out the frame.

Honestly, it's not even worth buying these titles unless you're just redeeming codes for the convenience of streaming--or at least getting a glimpse of what DV has to offer.

But, as fat as UHD content goes in terms of streaming; Netflix is the best as far as consistent video quality goes right now.
What about dolby vision streaming vs hdr streaming?

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Old 08-21-2017, 11:50 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by RockyIII View Post
What about dolby vision streaming vs hdr streaming?

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I mean, I'll go with Dolby since it's dynamic metadata and tone-maps better on the set that I have (LG B6 OLED).

But I still think people should commit to physical media as much as possible. Not for nostalgia--but the whole point of 4K/HDR is to get much more detail and color than you ever have before. You're going to miss a lot of that additional detail due to the compression of streaming.
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Old 08-22-2017, 01:42 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan View Post
I mean, I'll go with Dolby since it's dynamic metadata and tone-maps better on the set that I have (LG B6 OLED).

But I still think people should commit to physical media as much as possible. Not for nostalgia--but the whole point of 4K/HDR is to get much more detail and color than you ever have before. You're going to miss a lot of that additional detail due to the compression of streaming.
I was regerring to DV vs HDR both on digital streaming

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