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Old 02-19-2019, 07:49 AM   #2981
film11 film11 is offline
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Originally Posted by bruceames View Post
Don't take my word for it. It says in plain English on the latest DEG Report that UHD Blu-ray disc sales were up 70% in 2018.

https://www.degonline.org/wp-content...Ent_Report.pdf

Whether you choose to believe or deny it is up to you.
Personally I give more credence to independent reports over those from promotional organizations. I remember when DEG were inflating player sales. UHD disc sales up 70% due to more content, as you yourself asserted regarding dvd. But still small, certainly smaller than the days when 3D titles like Guradians of the Galaxy, Avengers, etc. garnered 25% - 33% marketshare. I dont think even the last UHD Star Wars movie broke out of the teens. Yet 3D was called a failure while the lesser selling UHD discs are called a triumph! Ohh-kay.

As for Stan & Ollie not being "high profile" due to a $5 million domestic haul, that's from only around 700 theaters. Worldwide tally is closer to $17 - 20 million depending on who's reporting. But high profile doesn't just mean box office. High RT score (93%), Golden Globe noms, critical acclaim, etc. are also high profile factors.

Last edited by film11; 02-19-2019 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:34 PM   #2982
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Originally Posted by DJR662 View Post
Exactly.

Some of the anti 4K sentiments I notice around these parts are as ignorant and uncalled for as the anti 3D remarks that I've been reading ever since the format was introduced.

It's 4K and 3D, not 4K vs 3D. Both disc based media and both providing an amazing experience.

I'll never understand why some people would hate and rule out either one.
I guess I would be classified as both. I have about 7 3D movies. When I had my 3D TV and put on those awful active 3D glasses I knew that format wouldn't survive in the home market. 3D was just too much trouble. They were never going to support a niche market like us fans boys think.

The same is true with UHD disc. Optical disc (CD, DVD , Blu Ray, etc.) in general is going into obsolesce. Many of today's computer don't even come with optical disc drives. Apple been discontinued the inclusion of disc drive with their computers.

Streaming is the present and future.
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:40 PM   #2983
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Hi Wild,

You know we share both the same passion and frustrations.

All I can ask is why are there some who insist 3D is entirely dead and taking personal glee in it. I'm not referring to those who look at it in terms of the industry and see economic and marketing signs to base their conclusions. There is uncertainty due to the business which we cannot just ignore. Just as there are possibilities it will subtly jumpstart.

A decade ago I myself argued not that 3D would fail but rather that it would not reach the heights of being the next big consumer electronics item because there had just been a consumer purchasing transition to HD and most were not apt to simply discard a relatively expensive recent purchase. I also felt 3D was being over promoted as far as consumer interest to the point it became telling people what they wanted, which would turn many away. I resented it myself though I kept that separate from the entertainment value and enjoyment.

But that was the social scientist in me looking at it in terms of it both being introduced at the wrong time and consumer purchasing priorities. It had nothing to do with 3D itself in terms of fun and entertainment and trying to take pleasure away from the first wave of enthusiasts.

So it's not those who conclude 3D might not continue as a niche product by the industry that riles me up. We are all worried about that and even some true enthusiasts regret they see an unfortunate writing on the wall. My gripe is with those who seem to take personal pleasure in calling it dead for no other reason than being vicious.
3D is dead because LG, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic,etc. have deemed 3D dead by not providing us with anymore 3D TV's. Being gleeful or not doesn't change those facts.
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Old 02-19-2019, 01:52 PM   #2984
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Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post
..................corporate elites make decisions that impact many if not all of us, constraining our consumer choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post
3D is dead because LG, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic,etc. have deemed 3D dead by not providing us with anymore 3D TV's. Being gleeful or not doesn't change those facts.
Consumer 3D Development:

James Cameron talks about how Dolby glasses-free 3D brings the ultimate cinematic 3D experience into your home.

Last edited by Paul H; 02-19-2019 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:48 PM   #2985
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I think that video is several years old. I'm not aware of any recent developments regarding Dolby 3D.
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:21 PM   #2986
bruceames bruceames is offline
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The UHD Alliance should have embraced both formats in combo packs.
I agree it's aggravating for me to have to choose. Of course now the choices are fewer and far between but do I get The Grinch in UHD or 4K? (as the latest example). A few times I bought both (Wonder Woman). I'm sure I would have bought others that I passed on if they were packaged together, so that's a sale lost to them.
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:33 PM   #2987
Joe D. Joe D. is offline
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Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post
Joe D.:

Well that's a kinda ironic position to now take.

I like the egalitarian/broader-minded place the post starts, but the last sentence returns to the visceral sting some of us feel/have felt as 3D-supporters regarding those who've declared it "dead." I'm with you in that regard. In addition to 3D, I've felt perhaps similar indignation about those who've dismissed SA-CD (just bought a Durufle "Requiem" SACD today) and DVD-Audio as "dead" when they're very much alive to me.

But I've tried to "get over" what other consumers have to say in this regard and focus on both my enjoyments and broader market-watching/analysis.

Respectfully, from my perspective--despite trying to qualify your remarks by introducing them by saying "Don't want anybody denied enjoying the type of consumer electronics that [gives] them pleasure"--you kinda started this latest round of exchange over the last two pages by referring to "taunt[s]" and who is getting the "last laugh." Then linking to the Forbes piece felt to me like you were intimating if not plainly saying 'turnabout is fair play'/'serves them right.'



Paul H. then thanks you for those remarks and links to the Bits article, using a "loser" icon after putting 'UHD [the intimation being BD?] will be much larger than 3D' in quotes as though that summarizes any part of that piece.

It took a few days but I've now gone back and read the Bits piece (I remember this from three years ago) and it's clear to me that what Ron Sanders was referring to is the totality of UHD markets. In other words, not just discs.



My point is that, from at least the beginning of this exchange two pages ago, "4K versus 3D" is a false dichotomy. So why use the Samsung decision as a point of departure to sort of finger wag?

The broader point (analogous perhaps to a lot of historical and contemporary examples) is that us "little guys" squabble amongst ourselves while corporate elites make decisions that impact many if not all of us, constraining our consumer choice.
Hi,

As you saw, that comment was only - and I mean only - directed to a few people. Not fans of 4K as I established but to those few who came on not about raving about 4K but also hammering into us how 3D was a gimmick and now dead. To them I simply reversed the tables, not hoping the article was a prophecy but to say how does it feel having that pointed out to you? Like Auditor above, is there a need to say it? Even with the facts that we all know, is there a reason why one has t be insensitive to other's feelings? We're upset enough!

So you are forgetting one thing. This was not the action of an elitist but the reaction to a select few 4K fans in their coming on to make a point about the 3D we love being dead - not once but often. So to them there was a finger wag for why come on to a specific forum to make such a remark?

That's why I opened with the point that didn't want seemed any other way.

Last edited by Joe D.; 02-19-2019 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:56 PM   #2988
Paul.R.S Paul.R.S is offline
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I think I understand your point, Joe, but I also understand it's largely about feelings--yours and those of others similarly situated in response to comments you find inappropriate especially given their location (what area of the forum).

Setting aside the issue of how problematic it can be to expect someone else/another group of people to understand/respect the feelings of another, the more you keep saying phrases like "reversed the tables" the more I suspect that the broader point is not getting clearly communicated or understood.

I would argue the Sammy 4K UHD BD player decision is not at all an analog to the current 3D situation. One manuf--that is still making 4K UHD displays--announces cessation of all their disc players. In other words, it wasn't a 4K-specific decision. That's not the equivalent of what happened when all of the final few display makers ceased production of 3D displays. Furthermore, 4K will continue to grow in all the non-disc spaces that are mentioned in that Bits article: broadcast, satellite, streaming. That's not the case with 3D.

So why even go there? Why even "nanner nanner" when it gives "the other side" room to say "It's not the same thing!"? Doing so intimates that (your) feelings are more important (to you) than those foregoing facts which kinda does a disservice to the "cause." (And frankly, this kind of enthusiast consumer dynamic is something even Bill Hunt has written about with regards to how Blu-ray zealotry turned off a lot of execs at the studios to the point that they didn't listen to the online fan community as much as in earlier years.)

I'm not clear on what you say I'm forgetting in your second paragraph. But your use of the word "elitist" begs the need to clarify that I was in no way calling you that. My use of the word "elite" was in reference to corporate hegemons not any individual.

Last edited by Paul.R.S; 02-19-2019 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 02-20-2019, 03:28 AM   #2989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post
your use of the word "elitist" begs the need to clarify that I was in no way calling you that. My use of the word "elite" was in reference to corporate hegemons not any individual.
Hi Paul,

Appreciate knowing that.
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Old 02-21-2019, 03:06 AM   #2990
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3D is dead because LG, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic,etc. have deemed 3D dead by not providing us with anymore 3D TV's. Being gleeful or not doesn't change those facts.
I just hope when my present TV dies, I will be able to find another 3D TV for under a grand.
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Old 02-21-2019, 03:43 AM   #2991
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I just hope when my present TV dies, I will be able to find another 3D TV for under a grand.
Hi Falaskan,

I'm hoping when the time comes, the industry will again be including 3D as a feature in some sets.
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Old 02-21-2019, 04:33 AM   #2992
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I'd like to think, Falaskan, that you'll be able to find something on Amazon Marketplace (third party sellers). The issues will be in what condition, from where, from what kind of seller (reputable? . . . there likely won't be any returns or insurance?) and how willing the seller is to overdo it when it comes to protection for shipment.

I've thought about this alot and another issue for me is that, if I go even larger than 82" for 4K in the next, say, three or four years how willing am I going to be to revert to a "2016 size" likely 65" max display "just" for 3D? Will 3D-BlurayRental.com still be around so I can rent all those titles that I'm not necessarily interested in buying (San Andreas anyone?)?

Last edited by Paul.R.S; 02-21-2019 at 05:56 AM.
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Old 02-21-2019, 05:25 AM   #2993
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I'd like to think, Falaskan, that you'll be able to find something on Amazon Marketplace (third party sellers). The issues will be in what condition, from where, from what kind of seller (reputable? . . . there likely won't be any returns or insurance?) and how willing are the seller is to overdo it when it comes to protection for shipment.

I've thought about this alot and another issue for me is that, if I go even larger than 82" for 4K in the next, say, three or four years how willing am I going to be to revert to a "2016 size" likely 65" max display "just" for 3D? Will 3D-BlurayRental.com still be around so I can rent all those titles that I'm not necessarily interested in buying (San Andreas anyone?)?
I've thought about that. I think one day I will have to retire my 3D discs forever. Sad.
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Old 02-21-2019, 06:14 AM   #2994
film11 film11 is offline
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I've thought about that. I think one day I will have to retire my 3D discs forever. Sad.
Or get a projector and keep enjoying 3D for years to come.
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Old 02-21-2019, 06:47 AM   #2995
Paul.R.S Paul.R.S is offline
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FWIW have thought a lot about that (PJ option) as well. It's such a whole 'nother can of worms.

In addition to the tech issues--CIH?; screen quality; light abatement/window treatment would be a big concern in my current viewing space--there's also the "lifestyle" concerns. Frankly, I don't need to fire up a PJ for everything I watch. Sometimes I want a less "formal" presentation. Sometimes I need to leverage time and fold laundry while listening to a commentary (which might require a little more light that arguably makes it not worth it to put those hours on the PJ for a picture I'm not necessarily paying 100% attention to. So many commentaries aren't necessarily screen action-specific, but I want to be able to glance up and see what whomever is referring to very quickly and then go back to other business without rewinding 15 seconds. Finally did Joel Cox and Jack Green on Bridges Of Madison County just this morning and was reminded again of this "issue").

It's almost as though you'd (read: I'd) "need" to get a PJ for those dedicated viewings while also having a, say, 75" on a wheeled table in the same room that I pull in and out of place for supplements/quickies/less "formal" experiences.

All that for the "few" 3D BDs I've purchased over the years? And the three handsful I wanna rent? While at the same time Disney appears to be taking their retreat even further by not releasing a 3D BD of Ralph Breaks the Internet?
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Old 02-21-2019, 12:09 PM   #2996
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Maybe I have a stubborn streak, but my feeling is whatever I have to do to retain the ability to watch 3D, I'll do it. I will not be dictated to.

Of course I'm hoping my current hardware holds out till they bring it back, but who knows when that'll be. In the meantime, I'm not about to be enticed to 'upgrade' by brightness or screensize or 8k or whatever moderate improvements come down the line. I'm not going to ditch 3D at the side of the road no matter what they have to offer. Without 3D, I could only see it as a downgrade.
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Old 02-21-2019, 12:52 PM   #2997
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Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post
FWIW have thought a lot about that (PJ option) as well. It's such a whole 'nother can of worms.

In addition to the tech issues--CIH?; screen quality; light abatement/window treatment would be a big concern in my current viewing space--there's also the "lifestyle" concerns. Frankly, I don't need to fire up a PJ for everything I watch. Sometimes I want a less "formal" presentation. Sometimes I need to leverage time and fold laundry while listening to a commentary (which might require a little more light that arguably makes it not worth it to put those hours on the PJ for a picture I'm not necessarily paying 100% attention to. So many commentaries aren't necessarily screen action-specific, but I want to be able to glance up and see what whomever is referring to very quickly and then go back to other business without rewinding 15 seconds. Finally did Joel Cox and Jack Green on Bridges Of Madison County just this morning and was reminded again of this "issue").

It's almost as though you'd (read: I'd) "need" to get a PJ for those dedicated viewings while also having a, say, 75" on a wheeled table in the same room that I pull in and out of place for supplements/quickies/less "formal" experiences.

All that for the "few" 3D BDs I've purchased over the years? And the three handsful I wanna rent? While at the same time Disney appears to be taking their retreat even further by not releasing a 3D BD of Ralph Breaks the Internet?
Well on option is to do what I did My Projector screen rolls up and behind the screen is another 65" TV for casual viewing. Best of both worlds . No need to wheel one out on a table.
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:28 PM   #2998
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If no 3D TV comes in the next several years then I'll just have to accept that I'll have to have a separate room for 3D viewing on an older set.
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:06 PM   #2999
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When my 2 2016 LG OLEDs die, I'll probably get a laser projector. My wife's marching orders will not allow a projector in the living room where the 77 OLED is. So, it would be where the 65 OLED is. I REALLLY like the passive vs active 3d experience. I still can't believe LG finally gets 3d done right and then got rid of it. Never trust large media companies like Disney who won't release the movie "Song Of The South" and changed "Fantasia" by deleting parts not PC. The large Media companies want to eliminate hard copiies and make us use their growing streaming sites. I will continue to buy 3d overseas until I can't find 3d anymore. I wonder how the Avatar sequels will change things in 2 years?
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:19 PM   #3000
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I mainly watch in the living room so a projector would be a no go there. I can't see getting a projector just for 3D anyway. I would prefer a smaller display (75" or larger at least) with full 4000 nit brightness capabilities and a really bright 8K projector would likely be out of my price range.
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