Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Droid420]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Odd. So you are saying you wouldn't feel The Revenant for example is massively enhanced by the superb HD quality of Bluray?

The only code for that one was HD, so I got it on HD. I would have gone for SD if it was available. As for the movie itself, probably the most overrated I have seen in a very long time. I am very happy though that Leo finally got that well deserved oscar.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by SixSpeedSamurai

I still feel you don't "own" digital media. Relying on internet and UV to be working to watch your movies doesn't seem right to me.

I very, very, very much agree. While part of the appeal of physical media currently (specifically Blu-Ray and the new 4K Blu-Ray discs) is that it still has superior picture and sound than that of most any digital streaming/download option... the thing is even if we do get to a point where the quality of digitally distributed content meets or exceeds the PQ and AQ of the absolute best physical format version available, I personally will still opt for the physical version as long as it is an option.

Even now, some current TV shows get digital HD and DVD releases, but not Blu-Ray. Even though the digital HD version may look better, I still opt for the DVD because of the ownership aspect of it.

Originally Posted by V40LLY

Does your Blu-ray player work during a power failure. If my my internet connection went down, temporarily, I would do without, until it was back on again.

For me personally, I really don't want to have to rely on my internet connection for anything more than I absolutely have to. I have had issues with my ISP over time (it seems like roughly once every 3 to 4 months, I end up having a few day period where my internet goes down and I have to fight with them to get it fixed).

It's one thing for me to need internet for things that have always required it to begin with, but I really don't want to force watching movies that I've purchased to be restricted to it.

Originally Posted by V40LLY

You got me. [emoji51]

Still, all my 500+ iTunes movies can travel a lot easier in my pocket, wherever I go, than if they were on discs. I know I need WiFi connectivity to watch them on my hand held device, unless any of them are downloaded locally on it's hard drive.

I can even take my Apple TV with me, when visiting my friend in Hawaii.

They'll be a day in the long distant future, when all cheap, scruffy motels in the third world, have powerful enough download speeds to stream, whilst it's plugged into the TV in your room.

No point in mentioning 'UV' to me. As, there is limited titles available on Blu-ray at present. Not impressed with it. Call that a bonus, when you get it.

As nice as the portability factor is, that to me is the purpose in redeeming digital copies when they come with discs... whether they be UV, iTunes, or whatever.

Even though not every title in my physical collection has come with a digital version, enough of them have that I have more than enough to keep me entertained when and if I am traveling. I don't necessarily need EVERY title in my physical collection to come with me.

I could see an argument for maybe buying a few absolute favorites digitally if the physical version did not come with a digital code (though to date I personally have not done this), but I'm not going to start buying ALL of my titles digitally... in which any title at any time could be removed from the service, the service itself could potentially go under, change, be bought out, etc. in a manner that effects some or all titles that I've purchased... just for the sake of being able to "bring" EACH AND EVERY title in my collection with me on the few occasions when I travel and for whatever reason get the urge to watch a specific movie. I'm sure I can get by watching one of the titles that I do have digitally from the included codes.

Frankly when I do travel (which is rare), whether it be for work or vacation, aside from maybe watching content/ playing a video game during the actual traveling process (i.e. sitting around the airport, killing time on the plane), I'm probably not going to have a ton of time during the trip to sit down and watch a bunch of movies or TV shows anyway.

Don't get me wrong, you go ahead and do what works for you. I just think that this ability to "have your WHOLE collection" with you where ever you go is often overstated and over rated because I honestly wonder how much time on average most people who buy content digitally actually spend watching it outside of their home.

[Droid420]

Originally Posted by PCFan

I wonder who has the lead in sales worldwide for movie purchases (not rentals or subscription services, or buying digital codes)? Is it iTunes, Vudu, Amazon VOD, or Blu-ray?

If I had to guess I would say iTunes simply because they have been selling digital copies the longest and they are the most stable and they offer more extras than all the other services. I do think that UV will probably pass them in sales at some point since it can be shared and since they have disc to digital and can be streamed from more devices.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by PCFan

I wonder who has the lead in sales worldwide for movie purchases (not rentals or subscription services, or buying digital codes)? Is it iTunes, Vudu, Amazon VOD, or Blu-ray?

It's actually DVD (which sells about twice as much as Blu-ray in the US, and is even more dominant in other parts of the world).

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Droid420

If I had to guess I would say iTunes simply because they have been selling digital copies the longest and they are the most stable and they offer more extras than all the other services. I do think that UV will probably pass them in sales at some point since it can be shared and since they have disc to digital and can be streamed from more devices.

Among the electronic sell-through services, iTunes is the market leader by a wide margin, followed by Amazon. Vudu is a distant third. I don't think the combined UV providers will ever catch up (UV is basically only alive due to digital copies that come with physical discs).

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Among the electronic sell-through services, iTunes is the market leader by a wide margin, followed by Amazon. Vudu is a distant third. I don't think the combined UV providers will ever catch up (UV is basically only alive due to digital copies that come with physical discs).

Exactly.

[Rocket Richard]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

It's actually DVD (which sells about twice as much as Blu-ray in the US, and is even more dominant in other parts of the world).

I believe tis to be true. Blu-ray is a niche. This is why DVD hasn't gone away. I can't believe people sometimes pay more for a DVD than a Blu-ray!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

I believe tis to be true. Blu-ray is a niche. This is why DVD hasn't gone away. I can't believe people sometimes pay more for a DVD than a Blu-ray!

It's for people who love quality.

[V40LLY]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I don't and won't watch films on a mobile device. IMO, it's abuse of film.

Would you not watch them on a large TV, using Apple TV?

[V40LLY]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Among the electronic sell-through services, iTunes is the market leader by a wide margin, followed by Amazon. Vudu is a distant third. I don't think the combined UV providers will ever catch up (UV is basically only alive due to digital copies that come with physical discs).

What about Google Play? Isn't that second or third position?

[V40LLY]

Originally Posted by Russ103

Quite an interesting topic, and timely, as this is something I am currently dealing with.

For the longest time, I've been "physical media only. F*ck digital." That mentality is now changing for me.

My main issue now comes down to space. I just don't have the physical space to house every film and TV show I want. It's simply not a practical possibility.

I am perfectly aware the quality differences between a Blu-ray and an iTunes HD file, but for some things it just doesn't matter. I've decided that I'll now only buy Blu's for titles that truly deserve it. Where PQ is just as important as everything else.

- Batman V Superman; The Force Awakens; The Martian; The Life of Pi? They deserve Blu-Ray quality.

- Next season of Big Bang Theory, or Always Sunny in Philadelphia?? Not so much. I'm pretty sure iTunes 1080p will suffice. Cinematography isn't high on their production list.


I've been through it with vinyl. As great as music via wax can be, the sound is only as good as the combination of recording, mastering, and then pressing ... and even then, it's only comes out with a ridiculously high quality system. Half these dudes talking about "vinyl sounds better" listen to it through some $300 trendy mobile turntable. Trust me. Your vinyl doesn't sound better through that shit. I don't care how high quality the pressing is.

Blu-Ray's are no different. Even the best home theatre setups can't mask a crappy transfer. Actually, in that instance, the better the system, the worse it looks/sounds.

You got it! [emoji120]

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by V40LLY

What about Google Play? Isn't that second or third position?

Last I think.

[V40LLY]

Really? Do you know that for a fact, or are you making that up?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by V40LLY

Would you not watch them on a large TV, using Apple TV?

Nope.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by V40LLY

Really? Do you know that for a fact, or are you making that up?

I think it was the case several months ago. Just need someone to confirm it still is.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by V40LLY

What about Google Play? Isn't that second or third position?

According to the most recent numbers I have (late 2015) they were not in the top-3. But I have little doubt that they will overtake Vudu soon if they haven't already, if only because of their much broader international presence.

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by Rixx

Aren't those US data only, the last time I checked there was a big old world beyond Americas borders. Please can you provide global physical media revenue v global digital revenue before claiming one format has won.

The trend is worldwide. Digital grows while physical collapses. Here is some data from Europe in 2014 (PDF). Europe physical sales have declined even faster than the U.S., although Europe digital hasn't caught up to U.S. consumers. I imagine that will change now that we're seeing Netflix roll out in more countries.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Tv style subscriptions are bundled in. That is not a fair comparison. EST is not at a level where it can provide a healthy picture. The growth is simply not there. Now, if you are saying Netflix is the future, I would agree but not for movies. Do you see? That huge amount in subscriptions is supporting the entire Digital realm. EST going from double figures to single figures is alarming. It is not what the studios were hoping for IMO. Of course disc sales are down, DVD has been around for a long long time.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Germany and U.K are strong Bluray markets for starters. Anyway, it's all moot my friend, we won't get a realistic view until Netflix and Amazon are taken out of th equation. They shouldn't be in there if we want a fair look at things.

Netflix and Amazon absolutely should be there if you want a fair comparison, much like Spotify and Apple Music should be there when comparing music spending. There was a similar discussion about albums vs. singles the way you seem to be debating features vs. episodic, but the focus should be on the video market.

There's not much point comparing physical sales vs. EST if consumers stop buying. What we are seeing is consumer preference for digital and annual double-digit declines in physical. We're also seeing growth in subscriptions and declines in ownership (combining physical and digital).

But I wouldn't make too much out of a single quarter of lackluster EST, especially with this quote: "DEG said digital sales were impacted by a smaller new-release slate, but continues to see strong growth in catalog titles." I'd focus on the collapse of physical and not worry too much about whether EST is growing fast enough.

[Mr Kite]

It really would be an awful shame if the masses who buy into anything bright and shiny won the day as with PDP and LCD.
They are truly going to kill physical media when it comes down to PQ and are purely all for I want it and I want it now no matter what and sod the consequences............which will ruin it for us all.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by tele1962

It really would be an awful shame if the masses who buy into anything bright and shiny won the day as with PDP and LCD.
They are truly going to kill physical media when it comes down to PQ and are purely all for I want it and I want it now no matter what and sod the consequences............which will ruin it for us all.

Of course it will. Try telling some of the guys above that. They think it's the Golden Fleece.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

The trend is worldwide. Digital grows while physical collapses. Here is some data from Europe in 2014 (PDF). Europe physical sales have declined even faster than the U.S., although Europe digital hasn't caught up to U.S. consumers. I imagine that will change now that we're seeing Netflix roll out in more countries.





Netflix and Amazon absolutely should be there if you want a fair comparison, much like Spotify and Apple Music should be there when comparing music spending. There was a similar discussion about albums vs. singles the way you seem to be debating features vs. episodic, but the focus should be on the video market.

There's not much point comparing physical sales vs. EST if consumers stop buying. What we are seeing is consumer preference for digital and annual double-digit declines in physical. We're also seeing growth in subscriptions and declines in ownership (combining physical and digital).

But I wouldn't make too much out of a single quarter of lackluster EST, especially with this quote: "DEG said digital sales were impacted by a smaller new-release slate, but continues to see strong growth in catalog titles." I'd focus on the collapse of physical and not worry too much about whether EST is growing fast enough.

But false claims are being made IMO. The thread title is the clue? Your dramatic 'collapse' phrase stinks of Digital fanboy IMO. Let's see how Digital HD does in the next couple of years. If Bluray dies in several years, so does Digital HD. we are heading for a rental/subscription market.

What exactly is Netflix? It isn't new releases is it?