Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[GuyIncognito]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

I don’t mean this as an insult, but I feel sorry for people who started their collections all over again from DVD to Blu-ray, since now your Blu-ray collection is also about to be out-dated.

This is why digital is the way to go. Internet speeds will be able to show a full high def movie in 4K in no time, or 8K, or whatever next they throw at us.

Soon there gonna have to change this sites name to 4k.com or digimovies.com

Anyone wanna buy a used time machine? Warranty expired in 2019, but it still works fine!

You think digital buyers will never be out of date either? Did any of your collection automatically get upgraded to 4K? Mine certainly haven't. It's the same thing as upgrading from DVD to blu-ray. And if you haven't noticed, DVDs are still being sold in stores so people don't "have" to upgrade their collection if they don't want to. They can continue their movie collection in the same format that they already have or buy the new format to supplement their existing collection.

I feel bad for digital buyers when they realize that they have no option to sell any movie that they no longer watch in order to buy a different movie that they're interested in getting.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by tiger_qc

I guess we will but it doesn't really bother me, I'm just wondering why they're here.

It's going to be like that game where the moles keep popping their head up and we have to hit them with a mallet (not really of course lol)

[Rocket Richard]

Originally Posted by tiger_qc

Quite honestly I don't feel the need to upgrade to 4K, I think it's a must for theaters and IMAX as the screen sizes make the upgrade worthy but I'm happy with 1080p at home. Unless I'm watching my 52" screen from 2 or 3 feet I can't make the difference between 1080i, 720p or 1080p.

May I ask why are you a member on Blu-ray.com? You obviously don't like this format and yet you created and account and post here.

Guaranteed you will want to upgrade in the future, as I know you can see the difference between 1K and 4K. I do agree that 720 to 1K is marginal, but 1 to 4 is immense. And DVD will be the old VHS......

I’ve seen 4K on a large TV and I am already accepting the fact that my 80“ HDTV is already obsolete. This is why I do not buy anymore Blu-Rays and am preaching about the future of streaming.

Furthermore and more importantly, I love bugging Steeldeel.

[GuyIncognito]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

Guaranteed you will want to upgrade in the future, as I know you can see the difference between 1K and 4K. I do agree that 720 to 1K is marginal, but 1 to 4 is immense.

I’ve seen 4K on a large TV and I am already accepting the fact that my 80“ HDTV is already obsolete. This is why I do not buy anymore Blu-Rays and am preaching about the future of streaming. And I am only dissing it on this thread, not all over the site, like a Troll, but I guess it looks that way.

Also because I too, got rid of my DVDs and started all over again, and will not do so again.

Furthermore and more importantly, I love bugging Steeldeel.

I like how you combine different terms as if they're equal.

1080p does not equal 1K
720p = 1280 x 720
1080p = 1920 x 1080
4k = 4096 x 2160
so 1080p would actually be called 2K if you wanted to use that term
and 720p would be 1K

The reason they decided to use 4K is because of people like you who see one number and think it is the same measurement as what our old measurement was so it must be that much better. When in reality the difference of 720 to 1080 is nearly the same (mathematically) as 1080 to 4k.

In actuality, it's more of a difference going from SD (720x576) to 1080p than it is to go from 1080p to 4K.

[Rocket Richard]

Thank you!

[tiger_qc]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

Guaranteed you will want to upgrade in the future, as I know you can see the difference between 1K and 4K. I do agree that 720 to 1K is marginal, but 1 to 4 is immense.

I’ve seen 4K on a large TV and I am already accepting the fact that my 80“ HDTV is already obsolete. This is why I do not buy anymore Blu-Rays and am preaching about the future of streaming. Also because I too, got rid of my DVDs and started all over again, and will not do so again.

And I am only dissing it on this thread, not all over the site, like a Troll, but I guess it looks that way.

Furthermore and more importantly, I love bugging Steeldeel.

I don't feel the need to replace any of my 1080p movies to 4K like I did with DVDs, of course sometime I will move on and stop buying the 1080p versions and will get the 4K instead but I'm not going to re-purchase those I already own. (unless it goes from SD (DVD) to HD or UHD)

I keep my DVDs that haven't upgraded to Blu-ray yet anf those I haven't replaced because I still own these movies and for most of them it still the best resolution available. (beside those I haven't replaced due to the money involved)

What will you do when the resolution will be 8K or 16K?
Even if you're all digital if you get a 4K movie when a better resolution will be available they won't upgrade yours for free.

[GuyIncognito]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

Guaranteed you will want to upgrade in the future, as I know you can see the difference between 1K and 4K. I do agree that 720 to 1K is marginal, but 1 to 4 is immense. And DVD will be the old VHS......

I’ve seen 4K on a large TV and I am already accepting the fact that my 80“ HDTV is already obsolete. This is why I do not buy anymore Blu-Rays and am preaching about the future of streaming.

Furthermore and more importantly, I love bugging Steeldeel.

I forgot to point out that it seems you're against buying physical media because it's a waste of money (constantly needing to upgrade). Which means you are probably considering the code prices on this site and other forums ($5 for a code for a certain movie) as your standard pricepoint. I would like to point out that those codes come from physical media which cost the same or less as buying the digital version directly from any vendor. So your reliance on going digital is dependent on others buying physical media and not wanting digital

So in theory, if digital vendors wise up they can figure out that it would be better not to include any digital copy with any of the physical media. Then people who want digital can get digital through them and people who want physical can get physical in a store.

I still wonder why movies still come in packs of BR + DVD + DC. The old days of blu-ray included the DVD only because it wasn't likely that multiple rooms of the house had a blu-ray player so it allowed the customer the option to watch the movie in a different room. And because there weren't really any portable DVD players for car/plane trips. But with an HD digital copy included, the DVD is absolutely pointless to include. It is slowly going away but some still exist.

[Rocket Richard]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

the DVD is absolutely pointless to include. It is slowly going away but some still exist.

Exactly!

[GuyIncognito]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

Exactly!

I meant it is pointless to include in a blu-ray combo pack. I didn't say they are pointless to exist. First world problems make you think an 80" 1080p TV is obsolete but that's not the case for all of america. Some families don't have the luxury to own such things. They are stuck with a 27" SD tv that they got from craigslist because that's all they can afford. And they may have to go to pawn shops and buy $1 - $3 DVDs in order to enjoy certain things.

Might as well say what's the point of a Toyota Camry when a Lexus RC-F exists. One is obviously better than the other.

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

Internet speeds will be able to show a full high def movie in 4K in no time, or 8K, or whatever next they throw at us.

Let me point out yet another flaw in your logic.
Sure Internet speed will have the ability to do so, but it's at a very large price. You want to "save money" by not having to rebuy titles so you will spend $100+ per month on the fastest Internet package so you can stream your 8K library (which isn't even an option yet). I have 25mbps Internet. I would have lower but Comcast tells me that's the lowest package they offer. (I'll be looking elsewhere soon to save money)

Hopefully you can answer these questions:
1) Do you have any digital movies yet?
2) How many of those movies do you own in UHD right now?
3) How many of your movies do you own in HDX but they have a UHD option available?
4) When will you be getting that free upgrade so you don't have to rebuy the same digital movie?
5) Have they notified you when those movies will further be upgraded (for free of course which is your entire argument as to why physical media is stupid to own) to 8K which you say is inevitable as well?

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

You think digital buyers will never be out of date either? Did any of your collection automatically get upgraded to 4K? Mine certainly haven't. It's the same thing as upgrading from DVD to blu-ray. And if you haven't noticed, DVDs are still being sold in stores so people don't "have" to upgrade their collection if they don't want to. They can continue their movie collection in the same format that they already have or buy the new format to supplement their existing collection.

I feel bad for digital buyers when they realize that they have no option to sell any movie that they no longer watch in order to buy a different movie that they're interested in getting.

Yes, this EXACTLY. Buying movies digitally is not going to be end of better, upgraded versions coming out later and therefore having to spend more money if you want the better version.

It's amazing how short sighted some people are when it comes to things like this.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

Guaranteed you will want to upgrade in the future, as I know you can see the difference between 1K and 4K. I do agree that 720 to 1K is marginal, but 1 to 4 is immense. And DVD will be the old VHS......

I’ve seen 4K on a large TV and I am already accepting the fact that my 80“ HDTV is already obsolete. This is why I do not buy anymore Blu-Rays and am preaching about the future of streaming.

Furthermore and more importantly, I love bugging Steeldeel.

Just refer to my posts about paying for movie by screen size. That scheme will be the biggest threat to the TV at home. Not obsoletion via 4K sets. If it has been discussed by industry people, you can bet it will happen down the line. That's what you should worry about.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

I meant it is pointless to include in a blu-ray combo pack. I didn't say they are pointless to exist. First world problems make you think an 80" 1080p TV is obsolete but that's not the case for all of america. Some families don't have the luxury to own such things. They are stuck with a 27" SD tv that they got from craigslist because that's all they can afford. And they may have to go to pawn shops and buy $1 - $3 DVDs in order to enjoy certain things.

Might as well say what's the point of a Toyota Camry when a Lexus RC-F exists. One is obviously better than the other.



Let me point out yet another flaw in your logic.
Sure Internet speed will have the ability to do so, but it's at a very large price. You want to "save money" by not having to rebuy titles so you will spend $100+ per month on the fastest Internet package so you can stream your 8K library (which isn't even an option yet). I have 25mbps Internet. I would have lower but Comcast tells me that's the lowest package they offer. (I'll be looking elsewhere soon to save money)

Hopefully you can answer these questions:
1) Do you have any digital movies yet?
2) How many of those movies do you own in UHD right now?
3) How many of your movies do you own in HDX but they have a UHD option available?
4) When will you be getting that free upgrade so you don't have to rebuy the same digital movie?
5) Have they notified you when those movies will further be upgraded (for free of course which is your entire argument as to why physical media is stupid to own) to 8K which you say is inevitable as well?

What about data caps?

[GuyIncognito]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

What about data caps?

That too. I know I've mentioned that in the past. They did it with cell phone data and will surely do more of it with Internet at home. There are already data caps but right now they are really high amounts like 250GB and up. I'm sure they will implement tiered services similar to cell phones since more and more things are going to streaming.

The internet companies already want Netflix to pay because their service is putting a strain on Internet infrastructure. The only recourse would be to increase the charge to customers but do it in a way so they don't notice (i.e. - 100mbps service for $60 per month but with a 100GB cap or $100 per month with a 200GB cap).

There is obviously value to either format

Physical pros:
1) costs the same or less as digital and often includes a digital copy
2) is not dependent on an Internet connection or connectivity issues (costs less to maintain viewing ability)
3) right now is a better quality than streaming (whether or not a consumer has the equipment to take advantage of said quality doesn't rebut that fact)
4) you can sell anything that you no longer want (Have DVD and want blu-ray? Sell the DVD. No longer want the movie? Sell it. Own part of a series and now want to buy the complete collection? Sell your individual titles).
5) Most blu-rays include bonus features if you're into that

Physical cons:
1) can be damaged/lost/stolen
2) takes up space

Digital pros:
1) No storage needs. If you own 1500 titles, you don't need a huge shelf to keep them
2) Don't have to worry about damage/lost/stolen titles
3) Easy to transport your entire collection

Digital cons:
1) inability to sell used copies for any title you no longer want
2) connection errors (Sometimes Vudu won't work with a particular title so I have to try Flixster)
3) requires fast internet connection for seamless streaming
4) quality is not as good as physical
5) if you want bonus features, I'm pretty sure you have to buy that specific version directly from a digital vender which means you likely won't get a good deal
6) even if you own something in HDX does not mean your device will allow you to view it in HDX. Weeds complete series on Vudu is where I first noticed this. Most episodes only allow me to view in SD if I'm viewing from a PC. I don't know a single blu-ray disc that pops up with a message that says "SD only available if viewing from a PC blu-ray drive". What is it that decides what can be viewed in HD on a PC and what can't? What happens when a certain title changes status and becomes SD only from PC?
7) Who is to say that Vudu will always be a free service? Sure you own the UV rights to a particular movie, but I wouldn't doubt that there will be a day where commercials are put into your movies so Vudu can make more money. Then you can pay an extra subscription fee to get commercial free Vudu service to view your movies. Hell, they did it with YouTube.
8) What happens if a particular service goes down (Cinemanow)? You have to hope that there is some sort of agreement with another company. If Samsung goes belly up for some reason, my blu-ray player still works.

Other thoughts:
1) buying HD digital code is equal to buying the blu-ray. Same way that buying UHD is equal to buying 4K blu-ray. If you first bought Star Wars in HDX and later you want UHD, you have to pay to buy it again in the higher format. They don't give you the best quality for free upgrade
2) need a device to view either option. Blu-ray requires blu-ray player. Digital requires streaming device. A Smart TV/blu-ray is not a valid argument because that Smart TV cost more than the exact same TV without Smart features. You are paying extra for that
3) "codes are cheaper than discs". This is false. It only appears that way because people get them included with their physical discs. You could easily make the same argument and say 3D is cheaper if there was a large enough people who purchased 3D versions of blu-rays and sold the 3D disc for $6-$7. If everyone went digital and physical media went away, you wouldn't have a single new release cost you $7 or less on release day because no one would be able to sell them.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

That too. I know I've mentioned that in the past. They did it with cell phone data and will surely do more of it with Internet at home. There are already data caps but right now they are really high amounts like 250GB and up. I'm sure they will implement tiered services similar to cell phones since more and more things are going to streaming.

The internet companies already want Netflix to pay because their service is putting a strain on Internet infrastructure. The only recourse would be to increase the charge to customers but do it in a way so they don't notice (i.e. - 100mbps service for $60 per month but with a 100GB cap or $100 per month with a 200GB cap).

That is bad though. They will just push SD streaming as most are happy with that. Using the very latest codecs thy could squeeze DVD quality at a low bit rate. It's a lose lose situation for us.

[Mr Kite]

I think the problem here is the vast majority could not give a shit about PQ, as has been shown with PDP versus LCD and slowly they are winning.
The one or two on here that are defending download are a perfect example of the main populous being totally ignorant of the facts or refusing to accept them, for the sake of shiny and new.

We are slowly reverting back to the days of bootleg VHS when as long as it was a latest release we will have it. Most of these guys have never heard of or even care about older films and are more than happy with a download of the latest Avengers movie.

I would honestly love for them to view releases from the likes of Criterion or Arrow, but that is something beyond their comprehension.

[Rocket Richard]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

First world problems make you think an 80" 1080p TV is obsolete but that's not the case for all of america. Some families don't have the luxury to own such things. They are stuck with a 27" SD tv that they got from craigslist because that's all they can afford. And they may have to go to pawn shops and buy $1 - $3 DVDs in order to enjoy certain things.

Those people will not be on Blu-ray Forum comparing digital to physical copies. I am talking about (and only in this thread), of what the future will bring and as we all know, buying Blu ray’s is a niche, as they still do not outsell DVD’s to this day.

I love my (very small) collection Blu-ray’s, but in the future, I will skip 4K discs and will be content to stream by then.

We already get 4K on Netflix. 4K will quickly jump to 8K and if people don’t realize this by now, then they are gullible.

If you feel the need to own a hard copy, there is nothing wrong with that, but I do not.

[ArmyOfDarknessAW]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

Those people will not be on Blu-ray Forum comparing digital to physical copies. I am talking about (and only in this thread), of what the future will bring and as we all know, buying Blu ray’s is a niche, as they still do not outsell DVD’s to this day.

I love my (very small) collection Blu-ray’s, but in the future, I will skip 4K discs and will be content to stream by then.

We already get 4K on Netflix. 4K will quickly jump to 8K and if people don’t realize this by now, then they are gullible.

If you feel the need to own a hard copy, there is nothing wrong with that, but I do not.

If you own a digital copy you still need to pay to upgrade to a new resolution. It isn't any different than a hard copy.

[GuyIncognito]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

Those people will not be on Blu-ray Forum comparing digital to physical copies. I am talking about (and only in this thread), of what the future will bring and as we all know, buying Blu ray’s is a niche, as they still do not outsell DVD’s to this day.

I love my (very small) collection Blu-ray’s, but in the future, I will skip 4K discs and will be content to stream by then.

We already get 4K on Netflix. 4K will quickly jump to 8K and if people don’t realize this by now, then they are gullible.

If you feel the need to own a hard copy, there is nothing wrong with that, but I do not.

OOOOOH so your argument is that owning anything is a bad decision because it will become obsolete? You would rather pay a subscription to rent and hope they have what you want? That's a completely different argument.

We're talking about owning digital vs physical. You're talking about owning vs. subscription streaming

Could you do me one favor? Tell me the quality Netflix has for streaming Disney's Beauty and the Beast? My blu-ray disc is probably obsolete by now. Or how about The Simpsons or King of the Hill? I'm stuck with my lousy DVDs. I understand it will probably take you a while to find those on Netflix

I think you're the gullible one if you believe renting is better than ownership.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

Those people will not be on Blu-ray Forum comparing digital to physical copies. I am talking about (and only in this thread), of what the future will bring and as we all know, buying Blu ray’s is a niche, as they still do not outsell DVD’s to this day.

I love my (very small) collection Blu-ray’s, but in the future, I will skip 4K discs and will be content to stream by then.

We already get 4K on Netflix. 4K will quickly jump to 8K and if people don’t realize this by now, then they are gullible.

If you feel the need to own a hard copy, there is nothing wrong with that, but I do not.

Again, you are ignoring points that I post because they don't suit your agenda. Data caps is an issue. Do you think people will suddenly be given massive data allowances? 4K will not be possible unless a household pays out a fortune in data allowance. People will knock the quality down to SD to stay within their allowance. Therefore, they will lose any future advantage of better A/V quality.

[Steedeel]

Oh, and Richard? Who is Steeldeel?