Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

I wrote "is about to pass". UHD-based streaming is now better in some respects (resolution, in some cases HDR). Blu-ray still has an edge due to the higher average and peak bandwidth, which gives it more headroom to avoid artifacts in difficult to encode material. But streaming bandwidth is only going up, and newer codecs make encoding more efficient, while standard Blu-ray is standing still. It's just a matter of time, and we're almost there.

You keep doing this, and I'm going to keep telling you to stop it. Again, compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. Meaning 1080p online services vs 1080p Blu-ray, and UHD online services vs UHD Blu-ray. You CANNOT compare UHD online services to 1080p Blu-ray, as a proper means of claiming that online is superior.

As for 1080p online services vs 1080p Blu-ray, I've seen you singing the same tune about online soon surpassing Blu-ray since you first started posting here, and yet here we are and it still hasn't. Perhaps you should stop saying it altogether, until it actually does.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

You keep doing this, and I'm going to keep telling you to stop it. Again, compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. Meaning 1080p online services vs 1080p Blu-ray, and UHD online services vs UHD Blu-ray. You CANNOT compare UHD online services to 1080p Blu-ray, as a proper means of claiming that online is superior.

As for 1080p online services vs 1080p Blu-ray, I've seen you singing the same tune about online soon surpassing Blu-ray since you first started posting here, and yet here we are and it still hasn't. Perhaps you should stop saying it altogether, until it actually does.

I will say that Netflix 1080p streaming of a film is very close to the 1080p Blu Ray. It's not there but it's gotten awfully close in some respects. The first example that pops in my mind is DJANGO UNCHAINED. I had the Blu at one point and I did A/B comparisons on the video quality and it was striking how similar the two images looked. The Blu Ray was just a tad sharper.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

Again, compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. Meaning 1080p online services vs 1080p Blu-ray, and UHD online services vs UHD Blu-ray. You CANNOT compare UHD online services to 1080p Blu-ray, as a proper means of claiming that online is superior.

Please read the previous posts. The conversation I responded to was about Blu-ray, nothing else.

As for 1080p online services vs 1080p Blu-ray, I've seen you singing the same tune about online soon surpassing Blu-ray since you first started posting here, and yet here we are and it still hasn't.

That's because it has been obvious for a while, and it's getting very close.

Perhaps you should stop saying it altogether, until it actually does.

Perhaps you should stop trying to tell other people what they should and should not say.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

UHD Blu-Ray anyone?

That's a different story. But I doubt it will get much traction, hence the title selection may be much more limited than what will be available from streaming services.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

That's a different story. But I doubt it will get much traction, hence the title selection may be much more limited than what will be available from streaming services.

But it's just an extension of the Blu-Ray format. It's for the purists like myself!

[shonuff6]

Physical copies for me, nothing beats holding the movies in your hand

[tob]

Originally Posted by shonuff6

Physical copies for me, nothing beats holding the movies in your hand

But you can't tell that to the kids today.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by tob

But you can't tell that to the kids today.

Kids who will grow into adults and see their digital library disappear when a storefront or company goes out of business. They will probably want to buy Blu-Ray's from eBay then!

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Please read the previous posts. The conversation I responded to was about Blu-ray, nothing else.

You specifically brought up UHD online services in your previous post I responded to, so what was the purpose and relevance of this if you weren't trying to compare it to standard 1080p Blu-ray, which you have stated the conversation was about? Unless you were trying to claim that UHD content sourced from online services will surpass UHD Blu-ray quality in the near future? Which would be an even sillier argument.

Originally Posted by Fiffy

That's because it has been obvious for a while, and it's getting very close.

For who exactly? It may come true sooner rather than later for a small percentage of the worlds population, however considering internet infrastructure is all over the place from state to state there in the U.S. and all over the world, if the majority of the worlds population doesn't have access to the necessary speeds, then whether 1080p online services can surpass the quality of 1080p Blu-ray in the near future becomes moot.

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Perhaps you should stop trying to tell other people what they should and should not say.

I'm simply trying to save you from continuing to look silly, you have consistently been saying it for years, when year in and year out it doesn't happen. How about we revisit this in 12 months? (and again 12 months after that) I doubt it will have changed. Don't forget, I expect screen caps from you to prove it if you ever make the claim that 1080p online services are equal to or have surpassed 1080p Blu-ray quality.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

For who exactly? It may come true sooner rather than later for a small percentage of the worlds population, however considering internet infrastructure is all over the place from state to state there in the U.S. and all over the world, if the majority of the worlds population doesn't have access to the necessary speeds, then whether 1080p online services can surpass the quality of 1080p Blu-ray in the near future becomes moot.


I'm simply trying to save you from continuing to look silly, you have consistently been saying it for years, when year in and year out it doesn't happen. How about we revisit this in 12 months? (and again 12 months after that) I doubt it will have changed. Don't forget, I expect screen caps from you to prove it if you ever make the claim that 1080p online services are equal to or have surpassed 1080p Blu-ray quality.

I'm with you Fiffy, if you have the right set up HDX 1080P is right up there with Blu-ray. In this Tread someone Posted Screen Caps, and I couldn't tell the difference. It wasn't even HDX, just HD Streaming. So with Fiber and Hard Wired.....No Difference!

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Kids who will grow into adults and see their digital library disappear when a storefront or company goes out of business. They will probably want to buy Blu-Ray's from eBay then!

Or we'll just do something else. There's plenty of movies out there, anywhere.

[Steedeel]

[QUOTE=alchav21;12129934]I'm with you Fiffy, if you have the right set up HDX 1080P is right up there with Blu-ray. In this Tread someone Posted Screen Caps, and I couldn't tell the difference. It wasn't even HDX, just HD Streaming. So with Fiber had Hard Wired.....No Difference![/QUOTE

Screen caps are moot. The real test is motion. Digital can fall apart with tricky camera pans and fast movement. The lower bitrate exacerbates the problem. Also grain (where applicable) can look unnatural with lower than Blu-Ray bit-rates.

Finally, while it is correct that I haven't seen HDX in action, I have seen ITunes, Netflix Super HD, Amazon HD and Flixster (oh dear) every one of those is deeply flawed and I doubt HDX is the match for Bluray unless you sit in the garden and watch your tv through the window. (Wearing tights over your head)

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

Or we'll just do something else. There's plenty of movies out there, anywhere.

What about all the money that has been spent?

[alchav21]

[quote=Steedeel;12130000]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Screen caps are moot. The real test is motion. Digital can fall apart with tricky camera pans and fast movement. The lower bitrate exacerbates the problem. Also grain (where applicable) can look unnatural with lower than Blu-Ray bit-rates.

Finally, while it is correct that I haven't seen HDX in action, I have seen ITunes, Netflix Super HD, Amazon HD and Flixster (oh dear) every one of those is deeply flawed and I doubt HDX is the match for Bluray unless you sit in the garden and watch your tv through the window. (Wearing tights over your head)

Well we can all go round and round about Blu-ray and HD Streaming, but only the people that have seen HDX count. I even agree the other Providers don't come close in their HD Streaming, especially iTunes. As for fast movement, equipment has a lot to do with that too. I was comparing UHD 65" TV's and found the OLED Samsung the best. With the same connections the UHD LED's were falling apart as you put it. So like I have said before, it's all Digital Blu-ray or Streaming Video, it just all depends on your set up. If you don't have the best equipment, and the fastest connection you really can't comment on which format is better.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I'm with you Fiffy, if you have the right set up HDX 1080P is right up there with Blu-ray. In this Tread someone Posted Screen Caps, and I couldn't tell the difference. It wasn't even HDX, just HD Streaming. So with Fiber and Hard Wired.....No Difference!

No screen caps have been posted in this thread from what I can see, I checked every page. Also, a comparison to Blu-ray caps on caps-a-holic.com is all that I will accept.

I have to disagree with Steedeel about screen caps being moot, they capture a still frame of the source, and compression issues as well as other differences can be seen with these. They are used all the time on this site to compare quality.

Personally Alchav21, I don't think you know how to assess these things to the same degree as some other people on this site, and that's why you can't tell the difference between 1080p online services and 1080p Blu-ray, and think they are the same. That's all I am going to say on the matter, and I'm going to continue to think it, until you can provide proof to support your claims.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

What about all the money that has been spent?

So? Whether physical or digital, you can't take the movies with you when you're not here anymore. Yeah, you "could' give your collection to a relative but even then you're not even sure the amount of money and time that you've spent on your collection will be valued by your relatives when you do give it up.

I gave up trying to curate a collection a long time ago. Now, I'm about the business of just watching as much as I can, when time permits. I'm never going to collect or have time for my favorite movies. It's just virtually impossible. I'd rather just spend the money on streaming services so I can have a buffet of movies at my disposal.

Yeah, my digital collection has no value. I'm not sore about it because for me, I just see them as permanent rentals anyway. Movies I really like that I don't necessarily want a physical copy for but at the same time, I want to be able to watch them at a moments notice. That's what my digital copy collection is for. I gave up trying to match picture quality a long time ago. My local theatre takes care of that, which is what we all should be doing anywhere...going to theatre as much as we can.

My physical collection is slowly but surely getting down to the absolutes. My goal, one day, is just have maybe 20 films on my shelf as the absolute of absolutes. Those I can pass on to my boys and they can do with them as they please but I just want them to know that these are the films that their Pops truly cherished and maybe they can see them as an avenue into my mind of why I loved cinema.

[Steedeel]

[quote=alchav21;12131710]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Well we can all go round and round about Blu-ray and HD Streaming, but only the people that have seen HDX count. I even agree the other Providers don't come close in their HD Streaming, especially iTunes. As for fast movement, equipment has a lot to do with that too. I was comparing UHD 65" TV's and found the OLED Samsung the best. With the same connections the UHD LED's were falling apart as you put it. So like I have said before, it's all Digital Blu-ray or Streaming Video, it just all depends on your set up. If you don't have the best equipment, and the fastest connection you really can't comment on which format is better.

You are clutching at straws now. Most AV enthusiasts make sure their display is up to the job.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

So? Whether physical or digital, you can't take the movies with you when you're not here anymore. Yeah, you "could' give your collection to a relative but even then you're not even sure the amount of money and time that you've spent on your collection will be valued by your relatives when you do give it up.

I gave up trying to curate a collection a long time ago. Now, I'm about the business of just watching as much as I can, when time permits. I'm never going to collect or have time for my favorite movies. It's just virtually impossible. I'd rather just spend the money on streaming services so I can have a buffet of movies at my disposal.

Yeah, my digital collection has no value. I'm not sore about it because for me, I just see them as permanent rentals anyway. Movies I really like that I don't necessarily want a physical copy for but at the same time, I want to be able to watch them at a moments notice. That's what my digital copy collection is for. I gave up trying to match picture quality a long time ago. My local theatre takes care of that, which is what we all should be doing anywhere...going to theatre as much as we can.

My physical collection is slowly but surely getting down to the absolutes. My goal, one day, is just have maybe 20 films on my shelf as the absolute of absolutes. Those I can pass on to my boys and they can do with them as they please but I just want them to know that these are the films that their Pops truly cherished and maybe they can see them as an avenue into my mind of why I loved cinema.

That's where we differ. If I am paying for something, I want something to show for that. No way am I handing over good money so that a movie may be taken from me or made unavailable in the future. Also, if I care about a film enough, I want it in the very best A/V. That is Blu-Ray and soon (for me) UHD Blu-Ray.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

No screen caps have been posted in this thread from what I can see, I checked every page. Also, a comparison to Blu-ray caps on caps-a-holic.com is all that I will accept.

I have to disagree with Steedeel about screen caps being moot, they capture a still frame of the source, and compression issues as well as other differences can be seen with these. They are used all the time on this site to compare quality.

Personally Alchav21, I don't think you know how to assess these things to the same degree as some other people on this site, and that's why you can't tell the difference between 1080p online services and 1080p Blu-ray, and think they are the same. That's all I am going to say on the matter, and I'm going to continue to think it, until you can provide proof to support your claims.

But we watch films organically not via still frames. Movement is key. Especially on a projector.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But we watch films organically not via still frames. Movement is key. Especially on a projector.

Still frames show the issues that you have referred to Steedeel. I hope you are not saying that compression issues can't be seen in screen caps, because that would be silly, and I could prove this wrong instantly.